SeraphG

So.... an elk or moose that just got shot isn't going to pump enough adrenaline to get a little high too?

Its not just Somalia - these reports are coming in from Iraq and Afghanistan.

SOLDIER WEAPONS ASSESSMENT TEAM REPORT 6-03
OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM
31 July 2003

http://www.bob-oracle.com/SWATreport.htm

"Some targets were reportedly hit in the chest numerous times, but required at least one shot to the head to defeat it."


Widespread requests for higher lethality are what is prompting this review. and the development (and adoption) of guns like the HK 417, and the SCAR (both 7.62 NATO based guns). Its not a flook and its not just junkies- its just too light a cartridge; especially in the M4 configuration - the bullet looses alot of performance when you take away the 20" barrel and strap on that 14.5". I think that's why alot of Marines still use the 20" config, but I've never had that conrfirmed.

My oppinion is, if you want to nail something in an AR-15 config, lay down the dough to get it chambered in 6.5 Grendel, .308 or .300 Remington SAUM. That would be the only ethical way I could see to deploy that platform in a big game scenario (and its an option I am currently considering myself).

ipscshooter

My next AR will be a DPMSchambered for .243 Win.

ipscshooter

Special Forces has adopted the SPC? When?

younggun308

Obviously, you didn't read the POST.WHich is MUCH more important.

"ok, first off let me say i WILL NOT DO THIS SO DON'T SET FIRE TO MY HOUSE.."

You really should've read the post, and not try to play the "holy hunter" and defeating the very purpose of participating in this thread.

So why don't you shut up, since you've got no business on this thread.

Sorry you didn't "get it"

Briman

Superior how?
Velocity? Nope
KE? Nope
BC? Nope (loaded with lapua scenars and tested against 7.62NATO then the answer is yes). You can outdo milspec ammunition with a .243 if you load it up with expensive VLD bullets but I don't see the military spending 40-50 cents just for the bullet portion of a cartridge.

If I had to use an AR-15 (not AR-10) to hutn a Moose with, I'd get a .50 Beowolf upper.

younggun308

They actually make AR-15's in .50 Beowulf?

HighDesertWolf

the .50 beowolf was originally developed on and for the AR platform...

BigTiny

I shoot this round a bunch and even hunt deer with it. I have never attempted a shoulder shot with it because I think it would penetrate the bone without shattering it at a 90 and at other angles I'm not sure. Striking the bone at another angle will probably affect your bullet trajectory as it passes thru the tissue of the animal(a bad thing). I use a rapidly expanding tactical 62 gr. bullet for hunting. A .223 will kill anything you can shoot thru both lungs.

SeraphG

Various answers to questions - adopted?
Deployed in the field at this time - but its probably going to be rejected by DoD if it hasn't been already - its just not effective enough.
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=600

Better how? "It has a flatter trajectory and retains greater terminal energy at extended ranges than either of these cartridges (223, 7.62due to its higher ballistic coefficient" Also sub-moa out to 600 yards has been reported. At half the recoil of a .308 ----http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel

The other site that has info is here: http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel.htm

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with - there are some other players out there that are trying to fit this need- exciting stuff.

and one more link that discusses the 6.5 Grendel vs the 308 : http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=.308

Montana Dave

.223 will not blow through an engine block. Not even with a FMJ. Oil pan, maybe. We trained at a junkyard all the time and left us all pretty humbled. Found that 75% of the 9mm rounds wouldnt even penetrate a friggin windshield, it deflected because of the angle.

We tried the "engine block" test with .223 and .308- neither worked.

But, with that said, I personally know a rancher that killed (legally) 21 elk with a 22-250, one shot apiece. If you extensively injure an animals lungs, he will always die. Every time.

Just my .02