Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

Does anyone have experience with the "Safari" or "Dangerous Game" cartridges? I've mainly become interested in 375H&H and 416 Rem. Is the recoil really that much of an issue when you don't try to sit down and fire of 20 from the bench? Any other 'practical' big boys? Double rifles are out...and the Ruger No. 1 is out...which leaves the criteria at bolt guns. I do realize that I'll probably have to have an action custom barreled even though Remington does offer LH versions of these cartridges

(Yeah, I've looked the recoil numbers up and compared to 30-06s and 12gauge slugs)

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

Well, I can speak really only of what I have used. In that department, that means the 45-70 and the 416 Rem Mag. I owned the 416 Rem Mag for several years and shot it a fair amount. I bought it for a Grizzly hunt but ended up useing the 45-70 instead. The 45-70/450 Marlin may not often be thought of for this application but never the less, can handle all the worlds game anywhere that they are legal to use. This duty requires hand loading for the 45-70 as factory loads are kept down to protect the 120 year old guns still floating around. You may have read where Brayn Pierce went to Africa with the Marlin 45-70 and killed two Cape buffalo with one shot. It completely penetrated both animals. How one could ask for more penetration is beyond me.

When I got the 416 Rem Mag, It was pretty popular and factory ammo and rifles were very reasonable. I don't know what the status of it is now days but when you mention big thumper, this one comes instantly to mind. About all I can say about its performance is that it has awsome power that shakes you clear down to your tenny runners. One shot with it and you realize how little recoil the rest of your guns have. The listed recoil is 53 lbs compared to 33 lbs for the 338 Win Mag. This means you are gonna know it when you pull the trigger. THe HOT 45-70 loads (450-535) Grain bullets will push 40 lbs of recoil as does the 450 Marlin. For all around use, don't overlook the 375 H&H. However Its not legal in some countries that require a forty Caliber Minimum.

In my now older age, I can see that if you don't need that kind of power, its probably best not to use it any more than needed. This because although most won't agree, over the years your shoulders and neck will start paying a price for the abuse. If you do a lot of shooting with thes guns including the real hot 45-70's, protect yourself from the recoil. You may not feel it now but wait another 20 years.:(

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

My experience with the 375 and 416 is that the recoil is essentially the same. Its substantial no doubt, but manageable. The 416 seems to be more of a push as opposed to a sharp jab. the recoil of each isn't as severe in my experience as the 375 ultra, or even 338 ultra. the ultra's seem to crack the heck out of ya, while the H&H and 416 seem to rock your body back. I don't if what I've said makes any sense to anyone else or not, but Its the best I can do to explain.

FYI the 416 seems to packmore punch to the animals.

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

:DI don't know abouit that. I did quite a bit of shooting with the two helping a friend and his wife get ready for a trip to Africa. They had three rifles to take along. One was a Model 70 in 270 for plains game. The 375 was a Model 70 in what I think they called a Safari model. However the 416 was a light weight Dakota rifle with a 2X Leupold scope and that baby would set you back a step or two if you were not expecting the eruption.;). I put a lot of rounds through a Ruger No l. in 416 Rem Mag. That one was mine. In rifles of equal weight I think the 416 out kicks the 375 by a bunch. However as a rule I was shooting 100+ grain heavier bullets in the 416. 270 grain VS 400 grain.

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

45-70 is a great choice for a reasonable price. Gun manufacturers put the Safari name on a rifle-then double the price. I never understood that. I am planning a Lion hunt to Africa. I have alot of the money saved up-not sure I will get to go, because of a handicap. But I can still plan the hunt. My rifle will be an 1886 Winchester in 45-70. I have spoken with several PH's, and they all indicated that it would be a good choice. All their comments were if you know how to use it, then bring it. Their comment to me was that alot of American hunters bring big magnums that they do not know how to shoot.

Also there are alot of heavy factory loadings available for the 45-70. Try Buffalo Bore. But be careful, they will set you back. Recoil and price. Tom.

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

I have a Blaser R-93 Safari in 375 H&H, and the recoil on it is not excessive. I had a Kickeez pad installed on my gun and use a Caldwell lead sled with 75# of weight on it for bench shooting.

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

I picked up a 375-R.U.M. last year & fell in love with it.

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

im no safari guy....and probably never ever could afford to go on one.....but i did get the opprotunity to shoot a few rounds through a local doctors 505 gibbs one time.....after shooting it i was (or wasn't) impressed by how much recoil it generated.....from what i've shot and read and spoke to with a lot of guys....if the stock and recoil pad are properly constructed...recoil is is moderated. Kind of a repeat of what many gunwriters say but i think there is merit to the advice......i know my old remington 3006 kicks the sh-t out of me.....but my 300 win mag with a better stock and limbsaver pad is more like shooting my wifes 243. Anyway....if your looking for a TRUE african cartridge...there ya go.

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

I would have to agree with the 45/70 / .450 they will handle anything you want to shoot. I have a .450 and my buddy has a .375 H&H and while the recoil is about the same force the .375 seems to have a sharper punch. If you shoot either of them very much it will give you a headache from the recoil.

RE: Which BIG THUMP caliber?
 

I have shot a .338 Win Mag, .338 Ultra, .375 H&H, .378 Wby, and a .460 Wby. In my opinion, the .375 is the most comfortable of the bunch to shoot, and I have a fairly lightweight .375. The others have a more pronounced "jab" associated with their recoil.

The for a big-thumper, the old .375 H&H is tough to beat. Bullets are cheaper than the .40+ calibers, and there are lots of varieties & weights available. Brass is relatively easy to find, and it's cheaper than the Ultra Mag brass. The .375 H&H doesn't require a whole lot of powder either - only about 60-70 grains...compared to 100+ grains for the .338 Ultra. If you are not a reloader, ammo is eaiser to find for the .375 H&H than for many of the other "tumpers".

A friend just returned from Africa. He and his son shot four cape buffalo with their .375's. That tells me it's got enough "thump" for my intended purpose - brown bears.

You'd be in good shape with a .45-70 as well. That's another one that's been around a long, long time....and for good reason.