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A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

Old 11-25-2006, 08:49 PM
  #11  
 
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

ORIGINAL: JagMagMan

We all have our own experiences, and preferences, but for the common good of sport hunting maybe we should think about these things:
1. Suggesting very light, or very heavy calibers to newbies is not good!
A. 90% of hunters probably don't have the accuracy to use light calibers that require pin-point shooting.
B. Probably the same 90% should not be hunting with "magnum" cartridges either! Going with the mythical "over-gun," probably loses as much, or more game than the ultra-light cartridges!

2. For the sake of meeting the NEED of most shooters, suggesting something like the .25's on through the 7MM-08 should take care of ANY deer alive!

3. In suggesting cartridges to a newbie that is going to spend XXX dollars on a gun anyway, why point them towards a light or heavy cartridge, that requires more experience than neccesary!
A. For that matter, that goes for a 30-30 too! (I know, I've heard it a thousand times, "my first gun was a 30-30 or a .22 centerfire!" None of these should be considered "rookie" cartridges! The 30-30 does not have the range for rookies, and the .22's again, just are not forgiving of any in-accuracy!

Finally , (and this is the whole point, if it was missed!) Consider that what you are suggesting, light or heavy, IS NOT best for everyone! A persons size, recoil tolerance, and experience, MAY or MAY NOTbe up to either extremes of cartridges!
With the recoil reducing technology today, (not to mention that deer do not require "magnum force") it is pretty safe to say that anyone that cannot handle a .25 through 7MM-08 should maybe be "observing" and not actually shooting!
Also, I find it ironic that you make these statements, and you show that you own a Winchester Model 70 in 7MM Rem Mag.
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:17 PM
  #12  
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

Why would a light caliber require pinpoint shooting ? The vitals of a deer is about 10" x 16". hardly a pinpoint.
Doesnt matter what caliber you use, you have to put it in that zone.


Siggghhhhhhhhh........
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

ORIGINAL: zrexpilot

Why would a light caliber require pinpoint shooting ? The vitals of a deer is about 10" x 16". hardly a pinpoint.
Doesnt matter what caliber you use, you have to put it in that zone.


Siggghhhhhhhhh........
I actually agree with you, for once. But, many people who shoot magnum calibers, probably couldn't put their gun in that zone.
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:37 PM
  #14  
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

cactus magnus is the muzzleloader in that pic a thompson center blackhawk by chance?
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:47 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

ORIGINAL: Chantecler111

ORIGINAL: zrexpilot

Why would a light caliber require pinpoint shooting ? The vitals of a deer is about 10" x 16". hardly a pinpoint.
Doesnt matter what caliber you use, you have to put it in that zone.


Siggghhhhhhhhh........
I actually agree with you, for once. But, many people who shoot magnum calibers, probably couldn't put their gun in that zone.

well thats a shame ! prolly becuase they get advice like this, they think if they get a magnum caliber they only have to hit brown.
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

ORIGINAL: zrexpilot

ORIGINAL: Chantecler111

ORIGINAL: zrexpilot

Why would a light caliber require pinpoint shooting ? The vitals of a deer is about 10" x 16". hardly a pinpoint.
Doesnt matter what caliber you use, you have to put it in that zone.


Siggghhhhhhhhh........
I actually agree with you, for once. But, many people who shoot magnum calibers, probably couldn't put their gun in that zone.

well thats a shame ! prolly becuase they get advice like this, they think if they get a magnum caliber they only have to hit brown.
Absolutely.
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

I agree with just about everything said in this thread. I do want to point out that JagMagMan, did not say that everything in his original post was an absolute, but moreover atype of guideline that should promote thought in what we as fellow more experienced hunters should recommend to basically new hunters. Also to get us to reflect on our own choices of heavy caliber guns in hunting game that does not require the extra oomph to take it cleanly. Now, I am not saying people can't shoot what they want to, but as others here have said, it might be better to shoot a caliber heavy enough to take the game ( more suited to it ) but light enough for each of us to use effectively.

Now as far as the 30 - 30 goes, that gun with typical loadings is a 150 yard gun. It is better around 100 yards, but can be effective to 150. With the new pointed soft tip loadings from Hornady ( I think ) it is a 200 yard gun. I believe if we recommend that caliber to new hunters, and explain to them the limitations of the caliber, then it is a great gun for beginners. It was my first deer rifle, and I knew what it was capable of, and what it was not. Education is a key here. If someone is not going to stay within the limitations of a particular caliber, then it does not matter what caliber of gun they start with. They have to be a respectful hunter for any of this to matter in the first place.

And in closing, I would like to say that this thread has been particularly refreshing to read. Everyone who posted in it was respectful to the other people posting in it. Even if you did not fully agree, or agree at all, the anger and name calling never emerged , at least not yet. ( I might get blasted after my post ) LOL ... Anyway, Thanks for an insightful thread, and some great shared opinions. All of you guys are class acts, IMHO.

God Bless

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Old 11-25-2006, 10:40 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

I think that the biggest thing that new hunters need to remember is that it doesnt matter what size of gun that they are using, if they dont practice and get to where they can make the shot that they need to make then it just doesnt matter if you cant hit the broad side of a barn. Shooting a cannon at a deer just doesnt make sense if you cannot even hit the deer. And these ultra magnums are just that, cannons in a gun stock. Sure, they are great for big game, and in the right hands they are even great for deer, but to recommend one of these to a rookie hunter is just insane. That is where buck fever starts, first the person sees the dream buck and his heart rate goes up and then right as he is about to squeeze the trigger his subconscious takes over and he flinches as he pulls the trigger because somewhere in the back of his mind he knows that he is about to get the crap knocked out of him by his own gun. Large calibers are great in the right hands, small calibers are great in the right hands but most people should be shooting somewhere between a .243 and a 30.06 imho. And yes, a 30-30 falls just above the .243 in my book. A 30-30 is great for the shots that a rookie should be taking, somewhere between 20-120 yards is about the max I feel that a rookie oughta be taking. Now if that said rookie has shot a lot of guns and it used to shooting at live targets then maybe you could move him out to 150 yards, but geez, lets face it all but the best hunters can make a shot over 150 yards more times than not. I have been shooting guns for over 25 years and I have been hunting and killing deer and other animals for close to 20 of those years. But I know that a shot over 150 yards is really pushing my abilities. When I was younger and didnt have so much arthritus I could hold a gun steadier and I could have probably been confident to about 200, but I do know my limits and a rookie should too.I think the best advice for the new hunter is to just go and practice and learn to know his limits. Buying a big badass gun doesnt qualify you for the stud hunter title. Learning to handle a gun earns you that. Flame away, this is a forum and I am just stating my personal opinions. lol.
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Old 11-25-2006, 11:09 PM
  #19  
 
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

ORIGINAL: TUK101

I think that the biggest thing that new hunters need to remember is that it doesnt matter what size of gun that they are using, if they dont practice and get to where they can make the shot that they need to make then it just doesnt matter if you cant hit the broad side of a barn. Shooting a cannon at a deer just doesnt make sense if you cannot even hit the deer. And these ultra magnums are just that, cannons in a gun stock. Sure, they are great for big game, and in the right hands they are even great for deer, but to recommend one of these to a rookie hunter is just insane. That is where buck fever starts, first the person sees the dream buck and his heart rate goes up and then right as he is about to squeeze the trigger his subconscious takes over and he flinches as he pulls the trigger because somewhere in the back of his mind he knows that he is about to get the crap knocked out of him by his own gun. Large calibers are great in the right hands, small calibers are great in the right hands but most people should be shooting somewhere between a .243 and a 30.06 imho. And yes, a 30-30 falls just above the .243 in my book. A 30-30 is great for the shots that a rookie should be taking, somewhere between 20-120 yards is about the max I feel that a rookie oughta be taking. Now if that said rookie has shot a lot of guns and it used to shooting at live targets then maybe you could move him out to 150 yards, but geez, lets face it all but the best hunters can make a shot over 150 yards more times than not. I have been shooting guns for over 25 years and I have been hunting and killing deer and other animals for close to 20 of those years. But I know that a shot over 150 yards is really pushing my abilities. When I was younger and didnt have so much arthritus I could hold a gun steadier and I could have probably been confident to about 200, but I do know my limits and a rookie should too.I think the best advice for the new hunter is to just go and practice and learn to know his limits. Buying a big badass gun doesnt qualify you for the stud hunter title. Learning to handle a gun earns you that. Flame away, this is a forum and I am just stating my personal opinions. lol.
I agree with all of that, and about the Ultra Mags, they just are not worth it, I used to own a .300 RUM, and it won't do anything a .300 Win Mag can't do, and this is the case withall Ultra Mags, all the UM's do is give you limited barrel life, increased recoil, and more costly to shoot, even if you reload. They are just not worth it, if you want a Magnum to be cool, get a .300 or .338 Win Mag, even they are too much for most people. BTW, I sold my .300 RUM.
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Old 11-25-2006, 11:50 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: A little good, common sense advice! (hopefully)

ORIGINAL: Cougars09

cactus magnus is the muzzleloader in that pic a thompson center blackhawk by chance?
Naw - CVA Staghorn. Killed this deer with it last year (that's my little girl admiring the rack)




ORIGINAL: MichaelT.
Now as far as the 30 - 30 goes, that gun with typical loadings is a 150 yard gun. It is better around 100 yards, but can be effective to 150.... All of you guys are class acts, IMHO.
God Bless
I dunno... you could tell the new guy his 30-30 is a 150 yard rifle, but rest easy knowing that if he does take a whack at one 200 yards out... he's really got a 200 yards rifle. Sighted with 150gr roundnose 2" high at 100yards, it'll only be about 3" low at 200. Good aim @ 200 = Dead Deer

200 yards is further than I'm accostomed to shooting; range I shoot at only has a 100yard line, and I can rarely see 200 yards in the woods. I hunted this evening; had a couple whitetail to within 50 yards of me, but it was so thick I couldn't get a really good shot, so didn't shoot, and they got antsy and never stepped out. It's taken a while, but I've learned when not to shoot. Today was first hunt with 30/30 - only thing I don't like is no silent safety. I'm practicing going from half- to full-cock quietly...
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