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ORIGINAL: SwampCollie

Alright, I swore I would never do this (since it is the most repeated and nausiating ? on a forum), but I need caliber advice and it is on something that isn't hunted by most.

I am going to Africa (Namibia) in June. I just found this out two days ago (Christmas present).

I am gonig to buy a rifle for this trip. I am also doing plains game (largest being a Kudu, about the size of an elk, only tougher).

I originally thought about a .325 WSM, but have since decided againest it. The .375 minimum rule does not apply to leopards, at least not in Namibia.

My buddy suggests I bring my 7mm-08, which I have tremendous confidence in. I handload, and do so confidently enough to bet my life on it. So, pending a nay-say from the outfitter, this is one option. Other is purchase a new gun (why not right?).

So, without tearing a cruise missile sized hole in my new rug, and without wounding a leopard at dark (no thank you), what caliber should I look in to for my new leopard gun? And preferably one that I can use on plains game, as well as domestic elk and the lot?

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"....Many years ago My Uncles and I used a 300 H&H for everything for which it was legal...."

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ORIGINAL: okcmco

7x57 is a smart and classic choice for plains game. But the 06 is a good all arounder for Leopard, Plains game and etc. Or so I have read. Some Countries have a minimum for leopard but a 375 h and h seems overkill for a 150 lb animal. But I have never had a leopard snarling at me either.
Do some research and check out the writings of Jon Sundra, Craig Boddington, Jeff Cooper etc.I believe Sundra and Boddington both have books that are dedicated to African calibers.These guys know africa and the proper calibers.
If it were me going (and I wish it were) I would stick to classic calibers (300 H&H, 30 06, 257 roberts, 6.5x55, 7x57, 375 H&H.) these would be easier to replace in Africa in case you run low. Karamojo Bell reportedly Killed many Elephants with the 7x57 mauser!
I wish you good luck
Marco

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ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack

7 x 57 is pretty short in the ol power department. I don't see it being a real good choice for elk sized game out beyond 200 yards. Maybe it will be just fine. I guess it depends on the range he's wanting.

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ORIGINAL: younggun243



Sigh................ Here we go again, if it isn't brutalattack's idea, then he goes BALLISTIC lol!

Anyway, he'll get mad, undermine other cartridges that other people own, and pull out ballistics to make your's look stupid, but he forgets, dead is dead, and the .270 WSM is impractical.

Get a big gun.

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ORIGINAL: saladin



if you do choose a new rifle, why not check out the new Ruger 77 hawkeyes in 375 Ruger?

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ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack

I'm not angry at all. I was just making a point. Can I ask why the .270 WSM is "impractical"?

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ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack


I'm not angry at all. I was just making a point. Can I ask why the .270 WSM is "impractical"?

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ORIGINAL: SwampCollie

I greatly appreciate your input brutal, but I would submit that in my case, the .270 WSM is impractical because it is, in effect less gun than I already have in my 7mm08. Anything suggested in the lighter or smaller direction would, at least in my mind, just be a vote for bringing my 7-08.

Same buddy who suggested the 7-08, ironically, took a gemsbok on his first safari with it. He shot it three times at 175 yards. All three bullets were within 3 inches of each other, right in the boiler room. The animal never moved until the third shot, when it took off and quit after about 100 yards. He really recommened I step up a notch for kudu and gemsbok.

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ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack


Um...I don't think you looked at the numbers I was showing you.

The .270 WSM has almost 1,000 ft/lbs more of energy at the muzzle and almost 700 ft/lbs more energy at evey other range.

I'm not sure where you're coming up with your conclusion but I'm not steering you in the wrong directionI promise.

You don't necessarily need to have a larger caliber bullet to make more power.

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ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack

I think the 7mm-08 is a tad on the light side for elk sized game at distance so why would I reccomend a caliber to you that is "less gun"?

Please compare the .270 150 gr. with the 7mm-08 140 gr.

.270 is on the top

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=PRA270WSM B*PRA7M08RB

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ORIGINAL: SwampCollie

To be honest, I agree, I do think that the 7-08 is erring on the small size for elk and the relatively equal sized game. Moreover, I think the .270 and its newer WSM form is as well.

Inside of 100 yards, which is where a leopard is going to be, there is just not enough difference to justify the time, money and effort in a .270 when I have the 7-08.

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ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
I am gonig to buy a rifle for this trip. I am also doing plains game (largest being a Kudu, about the size of an elk, only tougher). Other is purchase a new gun (why not right?).

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ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack

You're right. Inside 100 yards almost any caliber will be just fine. However, you said elk sized game on the plains and I immediately assumed long range shots might be in order.

If you can get a 7mm-08 to getover 3000 ft/lbs at the muzzle with a 160 gr. bullet, than perhaps you should start working on a cure for cancer or startselling your magical reloading recipe. Or at theleast you deserve a cookie! :)

You'd have to push a 160 gr. bullet over 3000 fps to generate that much energy.

A .308 won't even do that with a 150 bullet and 6 more grains of powder!



If you recall you were the one asking for suggestions for plains game.


Pardon me for answering your request. Seems you already have the Excalibur of cartridges. All I did was throw one out off the top of my head. I'm not at the reloading bench with you and I can't read your mind to know you have this fantastic handload.

Seems like you don't need to bring anything else with you to Africa. Good luck.

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ORIGINAL: SwampCollie


I don't recall saying I could get a 160gr bullet over 3000 fps. All I said was I could fire it. Last I checked...ain't no 160gr bullets coming out of a 270, at any speed.

Yes, I did ask for suggestions on plains game as well. But, the leopard is my interest in this new rifle. Thats what I am gunning for, and I would like this leopard rifle to be capable of taking those plains game too. If my 7-08 was a divine bolt of lightning, I wouldn't be asking for opinions now would I?

I thank you for your suggestions and your time brutal, but please, don't just "throw calibers at [me] off the top of [your] head". There is nothing magical or excaliber like about my handloads, or anyones for that matter.I never said there was. What I am talking about, is being able to load a more diverse bullet weights in a 7mm08, rather than having only three choices in a .270. It just isn't as practical, or versital as a caliber I already own.

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ORIGINAL: TerryM

Even if a leopard is a relatively small and thin skinned animal the damage it can do if not dispatched quickly in my mind dictates hitting them very hard. I have been using a remington model 7 custom KS in .350 rem mag using 225 gr. Partitions and have to admit it is the deadliest and most versatile rifle I have ever owned. It drops deer, moose and bear like nothing else and I find it actually kills quicker than my .338 win mag did. I have also seen that round take caribou at over 300 yds and again it literally dropped them in thier tracks. You can tuck yourself to bed every night reading marketing brochure ballistics tables but real life experience has shown me and several other friends of mine that the .35 cals are extremely effective way past what people think they are good for. A .35 whelen is virtually the same as my .350 and I wouldn't feel bad about carrying a .338-06 either. A .35 caliber Partition will smash both front shoulders of your cat while transfering a lightning bolt like shock wave. My experience with it is all "one shot kills" with dead in thier tracks performance. I have never recovered a bullet yet nor had any animal ( moose included ) go more than 20 feet after a shot. My 245 lb buck crumbled in his tracks this year at the shot.

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ORIGINAL: SwampCollie



All:

Please bear in mind, that a .375 H&H(I don't know about the 375 Ruger), is not required. And I don't want to blow a basketball sized hole in my new rug! Keep the suggestions coming.


PS: Saw a Sauer P90 in 30/06 on the used rack (or should I say, in the used case) at the gun shop yesterday, already wearing a Zeiss Diavari....could it be an option?

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karamojo bell did indeed use the 7mm mauser on elephants. he also used the 6.5x54 mannlicher! but he was using solids, and had dissected elephant skulls so as to know every possible angle from which to score a brain hit. and the bulk of his elephants were actually taken with larger calibres like the 303 british and ( i think) the 318 westley richards

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TerryM

Even if a leopard is a relatively small and thin skinned animal the damage it can do if not dispatched quickly in my mind dictates hitting them very hard. I have been using a remington model 7 custom KS in .350 rem mag using 225 gr. Partitions and have to admit it is the deadliest and most versatile rifle I have ever owned. It drops deer, moose and bear like nothing else and I find it actually kills quicker than my .338 win mag did. I have also seen that round take caribou at over 300 yds and again it literally dropped them in thier tracks. You can tuck yourself to bed every night reading marketing brochure ballistics tables but real life experience has shown me and several other friends of mine that the .35 cals are extremely effective way past what people think they are good for. A .35 whelen is virtually the same as my .350 and I wouldn't feel bad about carrying a .338-06 either. A .35 caliber Partition will smash both front shoulders of your cat while transfering a lightning bolt like shock wave. My experience with it is all "one shot kills" with dead in thier tracks performance. I have never recovered a bullet yet nor had any animal ( moose included ) go more than 20 feet after a shot. My 245 lb buck crumbled in his tracks this year at the shot.


I doubt they can match up to my .375 H&H with .260 Gr. NP. I mean, say what you want, if you want to hunt with a .35 cal go for it, but I'm gonna stick with the .338 or .375 cals. They seem to work a lot better.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TerryM

Even if a leopard is a relatively small and thin skinned animal the damage it can do if not dispatched quickly in my mind dictates hitting them very hard. I have been using a remington model 7 custom KS in .350 rem mag using 225 gr. Partitions and have to admit it is the deadliest and most versatile rifle I have ever owned. It drops deer, moose and bear like nothing else and I find it actually kills quicker than my .338 win mag did. I have also seen that round take caribou at over 300 yds and again it literally dropped them in thier tracks. You can tuck yourself to bed every night reading marketing brochure ballistics tables but real life experience has shown me and several other friends of mine that the .35 cals are extremely effective way past what people think they are good for. A .35 whelen is virtually the same as my .350 and I wouldn't feel bad about carrying a .338-06 either. A .35 caliber Partition will smash both front shoulders of your cat while transfering a lightning bolt like shock wave. My experience with it is all "one shot kills" with dead in thier tracks performance. I have never recovered a bullet yet nor had any animal ( moose included ) go more than 20 feet after a shot. My 245 lb buck crumbled in his tracks this year at the shot.


I doubt they can match up to my .375 H&H with .260 Gr. NP. I mean, say what you want, if you want to hunt with a .35 cal go for it, but I'm gonna stick with the .338 or .375 cals. They seem to work a lot better.

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ORIGINAL: Chantecler111

I never said that a .350 rem mag was more powerful than a .375 H&H. The .375 is a wonderful round and suited to just about everything on the planet. The difference is we are talking about an animal no bigger than a deer really and from what I read many are actually taken at night from within blinds at mere feet in distance and sometimes with a buckshot loaded 12 gauge. Unless the .375 was loaded with a 270 gr soft point and a fairly fragile one at that the bullet likely would just zip through the cat without expanding enough to do its magic. As excellent and powerful as the .375 is you are better off matching the gun and bullet to the game. And I will repeat unless you have first hand experience with the .350 you really don't know what it will do. I get 2696 fps with a 225 gr. Nosler Partrition with my 20" barreled custom shop model 7. really not much difference with a 225 load out of a .338.

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