.280 Rem or AI?
 

I'm considering having a gun built is either .280 Rem or AI.I don't currently re-load however since .257 roberts (myfavorite deer gun) offerings are becoming fewer and far between (not even core-lockts at gander mt.) I'm considering it more and more. I also didn't see a huge selection of .280 rem's either. Assuming I go ahead and start re-loading or take my friend up on his offer to re-load for me (I supply dies, brass, etc.) which one should I get for hunting purposes? The gun will weigh around 6.5 lbs. Thanks.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

The AI offers some performance gain but I'm not sure how much over the normal 280.

You'll have to locate some brass or fire-form your own to get started. I don't reload so I dont know how much of a pain in the butt that might be.

If your friend is going to keep you supplied then I would go with the AI for the performance gain and to be alittle unique. Both are great cartridges.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

AI

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

For practicality, go with the .280 Rem.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

Do yourself a favor and start reloading, and just get the regular280, if you want more fps get the hornady light mag.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

Yep.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

I thought the 300_Win_Mag was the answer_man?:eek:

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

I've reloaded since the 60's and i still built a std. Rem. 280. If you feel that won't get the job done, you should have picked the 7 Rem. mag. instead...

My 280 is still my most favorite centerfire bolt action rifle that i own, and if i was doing it all over again,i STILL wouldn't pick the AI...

DM

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

The .280 is a great round, and I shoot a 7x64 in its place. I thought the advantage of the AI was that by blowing out the shoulder, you get a bit more case capacity. My 7x64 loads (same as .280) don't completely fill the case, so is there any real advantage to "AIing a .280?

Thanks, CE

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

Did you know you can shoot regular .280 Remington factory ammo in a .280 AI? They shoot fine, and the fired cases come out of theejection portwith the steeper shoulder angle. You could do this until you got a quantity of brass accumulated. Then get into the AI reloading - which will give you about the same performance as a 7 Rem Mag.

Or you could just get a 7 Rem Mag. Huge selection of factory ammo. And even load it down to .280 Remington performance if the recoil was a bit much in gun so light.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

I agree with DM. 280 rem or 7mm rem mag if you feel you need more. Both have readily available components as a reloader and the 7mm rem mag has a lot of choices as OTC ammo shooter.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

The .280 Rem is a fine cartridge and if you reload you can come very close to duplicating factory 7mm mag ballistics.. Why complicate it by going with a wildcat chambering..??

There are ample factory loads for the .280 also..Not as many as for the 7mm mag, but how many do you need..??..

IF you are concerned about getting a little extra velocity at the expense of having more recoil and muzzle blast , go with a 7mm mag.. However, I think you would be well served with a .280 rem, and the animals you shoot with it will never know the difference..

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

I am having a .280 AI built right now. I have been reloading for almost as long as I've been shooting, so for me, making my own ammo is just part of owning ANY centerfire rifle. I also have an affinity for stuff a little off the beaten path. I owned a .257 Roberts at one time, and I currently shoot a .338-06. The new .280 AI will fit right in.

That being said, if you don't reload, I wouldn't recommend getting a rifle chambered in a wildcat round. Keep it simple and stick with the .280 or 7mm Rem Mag rounds. If you later get into reloading, you can always have your rifle rechambered for the AI if you wish. And, if you do take up reloading, you will discover new life in that .257 Roberts of yours.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

brand new 280 AI brass available from Nosler....

performance gain... 1 - 200 fps.... i'd only do it if i wanted somthing off the wall and handloaded... which i do....

having said that, go with a std 280... my hunting loads don't even approach the upper limits in the reloading manuals... but she'll put em in the same spot every time... good enough for me...

as far as turning a std 280 into a 280 AI... unless you are under on your headspace you are gonna have to set the barrel back... PO Ackley created his AI versions in such a way that the neck to shoulder joint is setback .004 over a std round and that is why you can shoot the std round in the AI version... you headspace on that transition rather than the whole shoulder and when fired the case blows out to the new chamber shape... if you just cut a std 280 to an AI you'll end up with excessive headspace and you'll have to seat the bullet out into the rifling to hold the head against the bolt when fireforming... otherwise you run the risk of case head seperation....

my 35 whelen AI is a bit long in the headspace... intentionally (as i was the one who chambered it)... and i have to fireform with a round seated into the rifling... i am only talking +.005 or so... no where near a Brown-Whelen... but if you just stick a whelen in and light it off you get a nice ring in the case where it thins...

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

What Brutal means here is you are going to have to find some "standard" 280 brass, reload it (using standard, SAMMI specs for the 280 Rem), and then "fire-form" it in your AI chamber. Never shoot an AI case formed in another rifle!

The best way to do this is just to buy whatever brand of case you want to use, but make sure you have access to a good supply of it. All you do to "make" AI brass, is shoot a regular 280 Rem out of your gun chambered to AI. It goes in regular, and comes out AI. Sort of like a catapiler becoming a butterfly.

I would go with the AI, assuming you are going to reload (which, baring your buddy doing it for you, is the only way to go). I have a 30/30 AI and the performance difference between the AI and the normal win 30/30 is amazing!

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

I thought this was the case but I wasn't sure. So if I get the gun chambered in AI, I get two chamberings for the price of one? It sounds like I should get the gun chambered in AI and even if I never re-load I could still just shoot std 280 rem. Or am I over-simplfying things?

Thanks to everyone for all the help.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

A what? That may be just a little too different lol.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

No, its actually about that simple. I know a guy in Aguilar, Colorado that has a .270 AI built by P.O. Ackley when he taught gunsmithing in Trinidad, Colorado. Ray has been shooting factory Remington 130 grain bullets out of that gun since he got it; and vows that once his 5 gallon bucket of fire formed brass is full, he will start loading it as an Ackley Improved. Ray is 67 years old. The bucket is only 2/3 full. I'm not sure if he is ever going to get there.

A properly headspaced AI chamber will chamber a factory round (or handload using virgin brass) with a little resistance when one closes the bolt. If you eject the round without firing it there will be a little ring on the case where the neck and shoulder meet. This is the only point at which a factory case touches the AI chamber before fire forming. I usually trim mine after fire forming just to true up the neck. That's about the only time you ever need to trim a AI case. The just don't "grow" as you reload them. Some of my .22-250 AI cases have been reloaded 25 times without ever trimming them. I neck size and, about every third firing, I run them through a Redding Body Die to set the shoudler back about .001. It's that easy.

The first pressure "red flag" with an AI is usually a loose primer pocket. You will almost always run into this before you get an ejector mark or some other visible sign of pressure. So make sure that, when doing load development, that you deprime cases and check the primer pocket tightness before going up the powder charge scale.

I personally love these AI rounds. But they aren't for everyone. Many gunsmiths don't know how to headspace them. Many reloaders take shortcuts (like trying to fire form brass that has already been fired once or twice in a standard chamber) and wind up with problems. But they are an extremely efficient round and are worth the trouble - if for the lack of case trimming alone.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

Yep, that easy. I shot some of the new Hornady Leverevolutions through my 30/30 AI and almost didn't bother load developing for it since it shot so well with those factory loads! The little Win 94 shoots way too good for a lever gun! I did end up load developing though, and get 308 like performance out of a 30/30. Its the way to go.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

In simple terms you are correct. What you are doing in essence is "fireforming" the std. 280 cases to AI. Which by the way you would have to do to get AI cases anyway. Unless, as some others have stated,you can buy brass already formed AI. What you would want to avoid is trying to resize the "fireformed" brass with a STD 280 resizer. You should really considered reloading for yourself. I don't recommend letting someone else reload for you. It is a good idea to get your friend to show you how it is done and give you some pointers but I wouldn't just let him do it for you completely. I always cringe when I hear folks mention this.

Reloading is relatively simple. Its a good hobby, and it opens upoppurtunities that the folks who are confined to factory ammunition cant explore. There are a lot of cool cartridges that you have to reload for if you want to shoot them.

All that being said, my favorite cartridge is the plain ole 280 rem. I've considered the AI a few times but opted to go other ways because I already have the std 280 in my vault."Ole betsy" has been up the mountain and back with me, both figuratively and conceptually speaking.

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

You can fire factory 280's in an AI, but the velocity will be lower than fireing them in an std. 280 chamber....

As for AI's not needing trimming as much, maybe so but i don't find the Rem. 280 to have stretching problems to begin with. I just don't consider this an issue at all.

Sure a 30-30 when AI'd does get a big velocity gain, but most AI chambers just don't gain that much if you keep the chamber pressure as it was in the factory cartridge... The AI'd 30-30 casegets aHUGE case capacityincrease, the 280 doesn't.

I honestly don't think it's worth the trouble, not to mention it kills the resale value of the rifle...

DM

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

Maybe you should start reloading now. If its really fun for you you will probably love the uniqueness of the 280AI. If reloading is more of a chore thenyou could skip the extra steps and do the regular 280.

NoKnees

RE: .280 Rem or AI?
 

If you are going to reload, you might just as well go with the 280 AI or the 7x64 Brenneke. The Brenneke predates the .270 win by a few years and the .280 by 40 years. The cartridge is one of the most popular in Europe. Apparently, many european nations don't/didn't allow civilian ownership of military cartridges or firearms based on them.Wilhelm Brenneke took the outstanding 7x57 mauser and lengthened the case to 64mm, thus the 7x64. It is a keeper, there are a few Rugers on Gunsamerica etc (but are overpriced). Sako and other still manufacture rifles for that cartridge.

Good luck, CE