Ballistically speaking.....
 

In another thread the issue of the 30-06 vs. the .308 was raised.
I am partial to the .308, but understand, that is just my personal preference!
I do have some experience with the 7MM-08, and I've seen large deer KO'ed with the 7MM-08 at well over 300 yards, and in most ballistic charts, I've noticed the 7MM-08 seems to have more "retained energy" when the .308 starts slowing down.
That is where this thread goes...
Does anyone have any "real world " experience that this statement is true?
If so, the 7MM-08 is just about the "perfect"cartridge for game through Mule Deer size.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

To start with, the 7MM-08 would be a near perfect deer cartridge and is. I knew the two would be close so I got out my chronograph book and did some calculating. To began you need to start with bullets of equal SD to compare. In this case, its easy. The 140 grain 7MM bullet and the 165 grain 30 cal bullet have equal SD. Starting both at 2900 fps which is the highest readings I have ever obtained, they come out very close. When Zeroed at 200 yards the drop at 300 is 7.7 inches for both. At 400 the 7MM bulet dropd one tenth of an inch more that the 30 cal. bullet. The 308 bullet however retains almost 200 LB more energy at 400 yards. For all practical purposes the are ballistic twins when using equal SD bullets.

These things can very with barrel length and such but keeping things as equal as possible they are two peas in a pod. Both are great cartridges and very efficient for output vs input. Lots of bang for the buck so to speak. When all things are considered including the extra drag and friction of the extra velocity, which the manuals don't show, the 308 Win. does not give up much to even the 300 WSM. In the field at 500 yards and beyond, people would be shockedat how little difference there really is. The extra velocity of the magnums creates more friction and drag on the bullet. I saw it all worked out on computers at a seminar given by Rick Jamison. He is one of the top ballistics men alive. IMO

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

Thanks! Good info James, I have not compared them with bullets of equal SD.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

Excellent post James!!!

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

Thanks Gentlemen.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

I was reviewing the Winchester ballistics tables for the .308, .30-06 and 300 WSM and then came back and found this. You're right, the .308 does start to gain a little ground at 500 yards, although, the gains aren't really very big.

At the muzzle, the .308 is 100 fps slower than the 06, and 475 fps slower than the WSM. At 500 yards, the .308 is only 7p fps slower than the 06 and 375 fps slower than the WSM. In energy, this translates to 191 ft lbs less than the 06 at the muzzle and 968 ft lbs less than the WSM at the muzzle. At 500 yards, the .308 has 100 ft lbs less than the 06 and 513 less than the WSM.

These comparisons were all with the 150 grain XP3 premium ammo.

Comparing the .308 to the 7mm-08 (using a 140 grain ballistic silvertip), the 7mm is 55 fps slower at the muzzle and 11 fps slower at 500 yards. The 7mm has 272 ft lbs less energy at the muzzle and 90 ft lbs less energy at 500 yards.

Sighted for a 200 yard zero, the WSM drops 32 inches at 500, the 06 drops 42.2 inches, the .308 drops 45.7 inches, and the 7mm-08 drops 46.9 inches.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

The drop was the deciding factor in upgrading to a 300WM from .308. I still use both though.

Tom

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

Guys, Thanks for asking this question and for the responses. These answers have been much more practical and to the point than the typical "X vs Y" or "What caliber?" threads. I've been mashing this stuff around in my head as well and couldn't seem to get down to brass tacks on it.

Thanks again.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

James B excellent post (once agin) that has been my saying all along most focus on the big bang instead of the output.I have a .300 win mag and I cant see that my deer with it are any deader (is that a word) then with my .270,.243,45/70,6.5x.284,or my .338 win mag.Lets focus on shooting skills more and not the calibur!!! Any rifle IMO above a .243 in the hands of a good shooter will take his game efficient and humane.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

Dan thats what people tend to forget.....they get so caught up in caliber they forget about the most important thing of all..shot placement. If you cant put it where it needs to be..nothing short of a grenade launcher is gonna help.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

This is not to say that there is no advantage to the high velocity Magnums. However these midrange calibers plain and simply have about all the range and accuracy that the average hunter can take advantage of. I have been an avid if not rabid hunter for 50 some years. I can count the times on one hand that I had to try a shot of over 400 yards at an animal. A ten or twelve inch kill zone on a big game animal is a very, very small target at 500 yards and beyond.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

[blockquote]quote:

ORIGINAL: JagMagMan

.....the 7MM-08 would be darn near the perfect cartridge for game through Mule deer size.[/blockquote]

Yep. Almost, but not quite, as good as the 7X57mm Mauser!

_______________________

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

First and most important, shoot a caliber and rifle that you are comfortable with. Remember recoil is a personal thing, throw away your computers and your charts, and shoot your rifle. Also different rifles in the same caliber canhave different felt recoil. Make sure your rifle fits properly!!! Now to caliber, sorry guys but bigger is always better(as long as you the shooter can manage the recoil). A 308 caliber will outperform a 284 which will outperform a 277, which will outperform.........I am not attacking anyone who has responded to this thread, it is obvious most of you guys know what you are talking about. What I have noticed at our club is that most shooters who claim to know what their rifles can do at 500 yards, have never shot at 500 yards, and probably could not hit a bull in the butt at that distance, but they sure can quote that drop. I have shot over 100 deer, and been around the shooting of probably over 500. Believe me 30 caliber is king. Tom.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

I guess you know what I shoot, but like the 7mm-08 also!

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

Regarding the "on topic part"....



================================================== =

Regarding the off topic part above regarding getting "caught up" in things....

Lets get caught up in field position shooting skill (not benchrest/blindrest) AND cartridge selection for the job at hand, tempered by how many shots ata greatanimal you are willing to pass on because of rifle limitations (in real life, not internet chat) AND acknowledge what your accuracy deviation factoris (in reallife, not internet chat)on shots taken from field position shooting (not benchrest/blindrest).

What do your ocassional "outlier" shots look like? How often to they happen? How far off are they? Field positions now, do you ALWAYS know when the shot you are about to take is going to be perfect? If not, then what compensating elements do you use to buy yourself (and your quarry) some insurance?This is anot-so-simplistic world.

Of course you have to hit what you are shooting at! That is the elementary starting point for any hunting. No rocket science there, it is a given. The discussion moves forward (or not) from there.

Consider working with the "whole picture" rather than just focusing on a singleaspect whileignoring the balance.

RE: Ballistically speaking.....
 

Another good post^ Im with ELKampmaster. You know that anything between 243 on up to whatever is adequate for deer. Just find something you like and that fits you good with tolerable recoil. Then you're ready to hunt.