Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

I've recently been doing research on shot guns and different brands of sabots to use out of them. Please correct me if I'm wrong, What I've found is a sabot shot with a rifled barrel can be shot further compared to a regular smooth barrel with a regular slug or rifled slug.I was looking at a box of sabots from Hornady and theballistics are something as follows: +2.7 @50 yrd, +2.4 @ 100 yrd, 0.0 @150 yrd and -6.7 @ 200 yrd. I would think that each company keeps eachtesting standardas far asthe type of gun (brand), type of barrel twist, if they use a scope or not, etc etc.Wouldthey use scopeswhen testingtheir sabots at a large distance like 150 yrds? I'm trying to decide ifI shouldinvest in a decent scope for my shotgun or not. I really don't find myself shooting past 75 yards (or up to the 150-200 yrd range it says on the slug box) withmy rifled barrel unlessI purchasea scope. I'll be hunting in a couple areas that have fields which means longer shots, but I'll also be shooting in some smaller areas as well. I'll most likely be getting a rifle soon that will take care of my longer distance shots in those spots. What doeseveryone think?Can I get away withusing my 870 without a scope for my first deer and then get a rifle a year or two down the road?Any help would be appreciated.

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

Well for starters I highly doubt they test any of the ammo or guns at the distances printed on them. I would bet most slug guns are tested for accuracy at around 50 yards or so. Someone might have actually called and asked. I wouldn't be suprised of some companies don't even test them other than to see if they function.

I don't think ammo companies really test ammo for accuracy at all. It would be pretty hard since most of the guns are pretty picky on what ammo they like.

Just because the box has a 200 yard trajectory on it doesn't mean you can shoot it that far. They just use a ballistics program and estimate the trajectory based on speed and weight. As far as a sabot round being able to shoot farther than a rifled slug. Well, yes and no. It all depends on how it is loaded and how well your gun likes it. Some sabot rounds are very simular to some rifled slugs in trajectories, speed and power. And some rifled slugs are pretty accurate out of rifled barrels. Until the barrel leads up that is;).

Case in point, I can shoot winchester super X rifled slugs that go about 1700 fps and weigh an ounce out of my H&R ultra slug gun. They group between 1-2 inches for 3 shots at 100 yards. I tried some of the faster barnes bullets at 1900 fps with a 328 grn pistol bullet. They would not group on a 8x10 piece of paper at 100 yards. Was the potential to shoot farther there, sure it was. Too bad my gun hated them and you couldn't hit anything with them.

However some of the newer sabot slugs with the pistol bullets offer better ballistics than a large chunk of lead. Even if they weigh the same. This could give you better down range performance even if the weight and velocities were the same. Not to mention better bullet performance on game.

In most cases with your average slug gun 150 yards is pushings it. 200 yards most likely isn't going to happen with your average set up and shooter. That's like the holy grail for slug shooters now.

Can you shoot a slug gun with open sights? Sure you can as long as you are not half blind. I see no reason why you couldn't put a bullet in the vitals of a deer at 75-100 yards if you could shoot well enough. At 50-75 yards I would actually suggest open sights if you shoot well with them. A scope could help you shoot tighter groups off from the bench though.

I would say plan on shooting 100-130 yards with a modern slug gun and ammo, and if you can get 150 yards and be accurate better yet, but consider yourself fairly lucky if you don't have to do a bit of testing to get there. The ammo is capable of it, it's just finding a gun that will stabilize these bullets at those speeds and distances.

Also keep in mind wind deflection at longer yardarges with most slug ammo is pretty poor. It doesn't take much to blow one off quite a bit. Like 5 inches or more at 125 yards with a 10 mile an hour cross wind. I'm sure the SST's are better than that though.

Paul

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

Thanks alot for the help. I didn't know if I was rambling too much for someone to give me a response. Greatly appreciated!

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

I will most likely try a few more kinds of sabots in my gun before I really figure out what I'm going to use for the season. The Winchester Platinum tips and maybe some lightfields...is there a kind anyone reccommends?

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

I have been successful with Remington 12 ga. Copper solid 1 oz. sabots in accuracy and good results in getting deer...

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

For the slower loadings I would suggest the platinum tips, copper solids and the barnse expanders by federal. The one ounce loads.

Paul

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

Tried the plat. tips today. They were about the same as the Hornady SST's. I'll most likely try the Rem. Corlokt next. Anyone try those yet?

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

How did they shoot for you? I'm curious to see what you thought of them. I had good luck with the platinums as far as accuracy goes, I just don't care for the bullet. I want something that expands a bit better.

Paul

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

Yes ...I have shot everything you have mentioned so far....;)

As for the ammo companies not testing their own ammo...? That might be the strangest thing I have heard Paul state in quite awhile.
(While I agree the published numbers might not be easily achievable for the average shooter, one thing I can guarentee is that companies like Hornady actually test more sabot shells at 100-200yds than virtuallyany private shooterin the world.)

100yds Savage 210

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

Well the Plat. Tips shot decent for me, but remember I don't have a scope. No problem shooting them at 25 and 50 yards. Anything further than 50 and 75 yards w/out a scope is tough. I'll most likely not put one on and eventually get a rifle before season. I'm just going to leave my 12 gauge untouched. If I need to shoot farther I'lluse my rifle. I'll have close shots between 25-75 yardsin the places that I'll be hunting just starting out. Maybe I'll eventually learn that I need a scope and get one though. We'll see. I'm going to my first gun show todayand will most likely learn quite a bit.

How did the Corlokt work for you?

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

Hornady might do some testing, but I bet the others don't. There is no way you can test a round for accuracy since it will be different in every gun. I am sure they test them for quality control and to see that they function. However I would bet that most companies design them on paper and make them. Engineers don't much care about what happens in the real world. If it works on paper or in the computer model it works!

A case in point would be rangeball's report about federal testing sabots in a long polished smooth bore to get higher velocity numbers. Well ok they tested them, but it wasn't a very good test in my opinion. I doubt many companies try their rounds out of 5 or 6 different guns to see how they perform. I would love to be proven wrong on this by the way. I would like nothing more than to believe these companies actually give a crap about something other than making money.

In my opinion Hornady is the benchmark in ammo companies. It's probably hard to compare other companies to them. They are the biggest reason the 17HMR is a such a hit. They did tons of homework to see what worked best and went with it, even working with several gun makers. And the result was a very flat shooting, very accurate round out of low to mid priced off the shelf rifles.

I just don't see remington and federal doing this with a slug offering.

Just my skeptical opinion though.

Paul

RE: Shot Guns, Scopes and Sabots
 

Tried the 2 3/4" Corlokt Remingtons today. They did a little bit better in my gun compared to the Winchester Plat. Tips and Hornady SST's. I think I'm also getting to know my gun better too, so that might be why I shot better with them. It's expensive buying a couple boxes of each every time I want to try out some differentammo.My confidenceincreased today.