Slug Gun Recoil
 

The Remington Copper Solids (1 oz. 2 3/4) sabot slugs I used in my 870 Express with a rifled barrel indicate 2040 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle. As a relatively new shooter, the recoil of this gun is a little disturbing.

My buddy has a Savage bolt action (also scoped) in 0.270. After shooting both guns at the range this weekend, both my buddy and I agree the Savage does not kick as hard as the 870. Although I'm not sure what brand/bullet he was using, published numbers I found for this caliber are in the 2500-3000 ft. lb range.

If the 0.270 ammo has roughly 35% more energy at the muzzle than the sabots, why do the sabots kick harder?

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

There are two main factors which affect the amount a gun recoils. One is the weight of the gun, and the other is the total weight of the "ejecta", which is the combined weight of the projectile and the propellant powder. The reason why your 870 recoils almost twice as much as a high-powered rifle in the .270-.30/'06 class is that it is relatively ligh in weight, uses about the same weight of powder, and shoots a slug or shot load which weights a lot more (1 oz, or 437.5 grains+ for the shotgun, vs 130-150 grains for the rifle)!! A lightweight shotgun firing slugs or heavy waterfowl loads has almost as much free recoil as some "elephant guns" in the .450/.470 Nitro Express class!!

Keep yore powder dry!!

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

I have hunted with an 870 Express with rifled barrel for several years...it is in fact my preferred weapon...I shoot Winchester 1 oz sabots and I can tell you it kicks like a mule. I believe the difference between the slug gun and the rifle's kick is the weight of the projectile. But to me, the extra recoil is an acceptable trade-off for the incredible knock-down power I get with the slug gun. Not one buck I've taken with it has taken a single step after being hit. All of them went down like a piano got dropped on them (shot from above) and one I shot from the ground spun 90 degrees and fell facing the opposite direction from where he was when I hit him! I've also found that I easily get good groups with it out to 75-100 yards (have not tried further), which is more than adequate for the area I hunt. I have to admit the trip to the range to sight in is a bit unpleasant, though!

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

So apparently muzzle energy is not a good indicator of recoil? I thought muzzle energy was just the product of the bullet weight and it's velocity. Granted the sabot at 437.5 grains is about 3 times the weight of the 150 grain .270, but the velocity is also less for the sabot. Although probably not technically correct, multiplying the weight of the bullet by the velocity yields:

Sabot: 437.5 grains x 1450 fps = 634,375
0.270: 150 grains x 2850 fps = 427,500

Not sure of the units here but the products seem much more in line proportionately with the difference in recoil we felt at the range.

Published muzzle energy for the sabot and the 0.270 are 2040 ft. lbs. and 2705 ft. lbs. respectively. What good then are muzzle energy numbers if not a good indicator of recoil?

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

Recruit, muzzle energy (foot/pounds) is the product of the weight of the projectile times the SQUARE of the velocity. Momentum is the product of the weight of the projectile IN POUNDS times just the plain ol' velocity, and gives you a better idea of recoil in accordance with Newton's Third Law of Motion, but the weight of the powder charge and the velocity of propellant gases must be incliuded in the computation. The constant given to gas velocity is usually 4700 feet per second. So, as you can see, the expression of energy in foot/pounds is prejudiced in favor of high velocities rather than projectile weight, and is thus very misleading. If you are really interested in calculation of recoil, I recommend that you read Chap. XII, The Theory of Recoil, that begins on P 279 of Hatcher's Notebook, by Maj. Gen. Julian Hatcher.

Keep yore powder dry!!

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

Wow little to tech for me. All i know is every pump I ever had kicked bad when shooting slugs.It can be a problem if you have to get another shot off quickly and accuratly..
I always was told that semi autos made much better slug guns for that reason

TrestandEd

"Hard work ... conviction ... pride ... responsibility ... class ... character ... success...BOWHUNTING

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

Thanks for the info. I'm looking at a few options to reduce the recoil of the slug gun. They are:

1) Replace the stock recoil pad with a Tru-Glo, Kickeez, Pachmayer, etc. Anyone recommend one over the other? I saw the Tru-Glo this past weekend but the package indicates it only fits the synthetic stock on the 870. Mine is a wood stock.

2) Is there a 12 gauge sabot slug with a little less kick? Maybe a 7/8 oz slug with equal or less velocity than the Remington Copper 1 oz. sabots?

3) Adding a 1/2"H x 1"W x3"L piece of tungsten to my b-sqaure scope mount. This would increase the weight of the gun by 1 pound. The tungsten would be mounted between the scope rings below the scope and attached with screws up through the cantilevered portion of the b-square. I could even blue the tungsten to match. Not sure about what additional force this may place on the b-square.

Any comments regarding these options would sure be welcomed.

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

You could also fill the buttstock cavity with lead shot to add weight....In addition to the tungsten, this would dampen recoil considerably!!

Keep yore powder dry!!

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

I say let her kick. You won't notice or feel it as you are squeezing off at that buck in your sights.

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

Rifle Recoil Table
By Chuck Hawks



The following are taken from various sources including the recoil nomograph in the Handloader's Digest 8th Edition, various online recoil calculators, or calculated from the formula given in the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 43rd Edition. The formula is:


E = .5 (Wr / 32) (Wb x MV + 4700 x Wp / 7000 x Wr)(squared).

Where E = recoil Energy in ft. lbs., Wr = Weight of rifle in pounds, Wb = Weight of bullet in grains, MV = Muzzle Velocity of bullet in feet-per-second, Wp = Weight of powder in grains.





Cartridge (Wb@MV) Rifle Weight (lbs.) Recoil energy (ft. lbs.)
.17 HMR (17 at 2550) 7.5 0.2
.22 LR (40 at 1165) 4.0 0.2
.22 WMR (40 at 1910) 6.75 0.4
.222 Rem. (50 at 3200) 7.0 3.5
.222 Rem. Mag. (55 at 3200) 8.5 3.3
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) 8.5 3.3
.223 Rem. (62 at 3025) 7.0 4.4
.22-250 Rem. (55 at 3600) 8.5 4.2
.220 Swift (55 at 3700) 8.5 4.6
.243 Win. (75 at 3400) 8.0 8.4
.243 Win. (85 at 3200) 7.5 9.1
.243 Win. (90 at 3120) 7.25 9.8
.243 Win. (95 at 3100) 7.25 9.4
.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.25 9.3
.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 8.0 8.4
.243 Win. (105 at 2870) 8.0 8.7
6mm Rem. (75 at 3515) 8.0 8.5
6mm Rem. (80 at 3415) 8.0 9.2
6mm Rem. (85 at 3325) 7.5 10.0
6mm Rem. (90 at 3250) 9.0 8.7
6mm Rem. (100 at 3100) 8.0 10.0
6mm Rem. (100 at 3100) 9.0 8.9
6mm Rem. (105 at 3145) 8.0 10.3
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 at 3400) 7.5 14.5
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 at 3406) 8.0 13.5
.250 Sav. (87 at 3000) 7.5 7.8
.250 Sav. (100 at 2800) 7.5 8.6
.257 Rob. (100 at 3000) 7.5 9.9
.257 Rob. (117 at 2650) 8.0 9.0
.257 Rob. (120 at 2800) 8.0 11.3
.25-06 Rem. (75 at 3600) 8.5 9.2
.25-06 Rem. (100 at 3230) 8.0 13.4
.25-06 Rem. (120 at 3000) 8.0 14.1
.257 Wby. Mag. (100 at 3602) 9.25 23.6
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 at 3200) 8.5 16.6
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 at 3200) 9.5 15.9
6.5x55 Swe. (140 at 2550) 8.0 13.5
.260 Rem. (120 at 2890) 7.5 13.9
.260 Rem. (140 at 2750) 7.5 15.1
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 at 3100) 7.5 16.8
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 2900) 7.5 18.4
.264 Win. Mag. (140 at 3200) 8.0 20.5
.264 Win. Mag. (165 at 2900) 8.5 20.8
.270 Win. (100 at 3400) 8.5 13.4
.270 Win. (130 at 3140) 8.0 16.5
.270 Win. (140 at 3000) 8.0 19.3
.270 Win. (150 at 2900) 8.0 19.8
.270 Wby. Mag. (130 at 3375) 9.25 26.1
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 at 3245) 8.5 26.6
7-30 Waters (120 at 2700) 7.0 11.2
7x57 Mau. (140 at 2700) 8.0 12.5
7x57 Mau. (140 at 2800) 8.0 14.0
7x57 Mau. (160 at 2600) 8.0 14.3
7x57 Mau. (175 at 2440) 8.0 14.0
7mm-08 Rem. (120 at 3000) 8.0 13.8
7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 7.5 14.6
7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 8.0 13.7
7mm-08 Rem. (145 at 2845) 8.0 14.5
7mm-08 Rem. (160 at 2700) 8.0 14.8
.280 Rem. (140 at 3000) 8.0 18.8
.280 Rem. (150 at 2900) 8.0 19.3
7mm WSM/SAUM (140 at 3055) 8.0 20.9
7mm WSM/SAUM (160 at 2795) 8.0 22.4
7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150) 8.0 23.5
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 at 3100) 8.5 21.3
7mm Rem. Mag. (160 at 2950) 8.5 22.6
7mm Rem. Mag. (175 at 2860) 8.5 23.7
7mm Wby. Mag. (154 at 3260) 9.25 29.6
7mm Ultra Mag. (150 at 3210) 8.5 37.4
7mm Ultra Mag. (175 at 3110) 8.5 44.5
.30 Carbine (110 at 1990) 7.0 3.8
.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 11.7
.30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 12.3
.30-40 Krag (180 at 2430) 8.0 16.6
.300 Sav. (150 at 2630) 7.5 14.8
.300 Sav. (180 at 2350) 7.5 15.6
.307 Win. (150 at 2600) 7.5 14.4
.307 Win. (180 at 2500) 7.5 18.0
.308 Win. (150 at 2600) 7.5 14.0
.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 17.7
.308 Win. (165 at 2700) 7.5 17.9
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 7.5 20.6
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 19.3
.308 Win. (200 at 2450) 8.0 20.4
.30-06 Spfd. (125 at 3140) 8.0 14.5
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2900) 8.0 19.7
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 7.5 21.7
.30-06 Spfd. (165 at 2900) 8.0 22.5
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.0
.30-06 Spfd. (220 at 2600) 8.0 28.1
.300 WSM/SAUM (150 at 3290) 7.5 32.5
.300 WSM/SAUM (180 at 2860) 8.0 26.1
.300 Win. Mag. (150 at 3300) 8.5 27.5
.300 Win. Mag. (165 at 3100) 8.5 27.6
.300 Win. Mag. (180 at 2920) 8.0 26.5
.300 H&H Mag. (220 at 2680) 9.0 30.5
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 at 3190) 8.5 34.7
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 at 3240) 9.25 40.3
.300 Ultra Mag. (180 at 3250) 8.5 35.8
.30-378 Wby. Mag. (180 at 3450) 9.75 51.4
7.62x39 Soviet (123 at 2350) 7.0 7.3
.303 British (150 at 2600) 7.5 14.6
.303 British (180 at 2460) 9.0 15.6
.32 Spec. (170 at 2200) 7.5 12.3
8x57 Mau. (170 at 2360) 8.0 16.5
8mm Rem. Mag. (220 at 2830) 9.0 33.4
.338-06 (200 at 2800) 8.0 29.1
.338 Win. Mag. (200 at 2960) 9.0 31.6
.338 Win. Mag. (225 at 2780) 9.0 33.6
.338 Win. Mag. (250 at 2660) 9.0 29.0
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 at 2860) 9.5 43.2
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 at 2963) 10.9 42.9
.338-378 Wby. Mag. (225 at 3180) 9.75 64.3
.357 Mag. (rifle, 158 at 1700) 7.5 4.8
.35 Rem. (180 at 2200) 7.5 14.5
.35 Rem. (200 at 2127) 7.5 15.5
.356 Win. (200 at 2383) 7.5 18.7
.358 Win. (200 at 2520) 8.0 21.3
.35 Whelen (180 at 2850) 7.5 27.0
.35 Whelen (200 at 2700) 8.0 26.3
.35 Whelen (250 at 2400) 8.5 26.8
.350 Rem. Mag. (180 at 2850) 7.5 27.0
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 at 2710) 8.0 27.1
.350 Rem. Mag. (250 at 2400) 8.5 26.3
.38-55 Win. (255 at 1700) 7.5 15.1
.375 Win. (220 at 2012) 7.5 15.1
.375 Win. (255 at 1900) 7.5 18.1
.375 H&H Mag. (235 at 2700) 9.0 29.8
.375 H&H Mag. (270 at 2690) 9.0 39.8
.375 H&H Mag. (300 at 2530) 9.0 44.0
.375 Wby. Mag. (270 at 2800) 9.5 41.0
.375 Wby. Mag. (300 at 2700) 9.5 48.5
.375 Ultra Mag. (300 at 2800) 8.75 53.2
.378 Wby. Mag. (270 at 3180) 10.75 64.7
.378 Wby. Mag. (300 at 2900) 10.5 58.8
.405 Win. (300 at 2115) 8.0 27.6
.405 Win. (300 at 2232) 8.0 30.0
.416 Rigby (400 at 2350) 10.25 56.7
.416 Rem. Mag. (400 at 2400) 10.0 58.5
.416 Wby. Mag. (400 at 2700) 10.5 81.6
.416 Wby. Mag. (400 at 2700) 11.3 74.7
.44 Mag. (rifle, 240 at 1760) 7.5 12.1
.444 Marlin (240 at 2350) 7.5 26.5
.444 Marlin (265 at 2200) 8.5 25.8
.444 Marlin (300 at 2050) 8.5 24.6
.450 Marlin (350 at 2000) 7.0 41.8
.450 Marlin (350 at 2000) 8.0 36.6
.45-70 (300 at 1800) 7.5 24.0
.45-70 (300 at 1800) 10.0 19.0
.45-70 (350 at 2100) 10.0 32.1
.45-70 (400 at 2000) 10.0 38.5
.45-70 (405 at 1330) 7.5 23.5
.45-70 (500 at 1800) 10.0 44.0
.450/400-3" (400 at 2150) 9.0 51.0
.458 Win. Mag. (350 at 2470) 10.0 45.2
.458 Win. Mag. (400 at 2380) 9.25 57.9
.458 Win. Mag. (500 at 2050) 10.5 55.8
.460 Wby. Mag. (500 at 2600) 12.25 98.5
.460 Wby. Mag. (500 at 2650) 10.5 109.7
.470 NE (500 at 2150) 11 73.1
.50 BMG (647 at 2950) 30 82.9






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RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

Thanks ken p! Looks like you included enough energy data for anyone wanting to make comparisons.

Well I added 2/3 lb. of lead (fishing sinkers) in the stock cavity this weekend. Thanks eldeguello for the idea. This seems to be the easiest, cheapest and least obtrusive way to add weight to the gun. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.

I may add the tungsten plate later on. We'll see how it goes.

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

Brownell's has recoil pads, recoil supressors which can take the place of the plug or go in the buttstock. Some are weights, some tubes of mercury, some I think may be hydraulic. Another item I found that helps the shooting and with the recoil is a stick on cheek pad for the top of the stock. Another way to add weight is use a stock sleeve that holds 5 slugs and a sling that holds four or 5.

Take advantage of the rifled barrel for range and accuracy. My old 1100 and old hastings barrel put 5 Hornady H2ks inside a 3 inch circle at 200 yds. Although I took a doe at 170 yds. with a Federal Hydrashock, it took about 12 inches of hold over. I've also had the hourglass sabots break at the waist and slide up along the shoulderblade rather than going thru it.

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

YOU CANT HANDLE THE RECOIL OF A 12GA.? ITS ONLY FOR A SPLIT SECOND, PLUS ONCE YOUR SIGHTS IS ON THAT BUCK, YOU WILL NOT FEEL THE GUN GO "BOOM!!!"

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

A 12 gauge using 2 3/4 shot loads is one thing, using slugs repeatedly at the range is another. Like eldeguello indicated above, A lightweight shotgun firing slugs has almost as much free recoil as some "elephant guns" in the .450/.470 Nitro Express class.

I agree, the one split-second shot (maybe two) isn't bad, especially during the hunt when adrenalin is up. But repeated shots at the range...well yes it is tough to handle after about 8 to 10 shots.

I figure reducing recoil for the primary purpose of shooting at the range sure wouldn't hurt (no pun intended) during a hunt.

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

I would use a gun vise at the range and forget about it. I have shot a lot with my slug gun and it really isnt that bad. On Saturday, I shot an 8 pointer 4 times and can honestly say, the recoil never entered my thoughts until I just read your post. I can't remember the recoil at all. If you use a gun vise at the range it will dampen the recoil considerably. Unless you have a physical condition, I wouldnt worry about it at all under hunting situations and a gun vise takes care of the range issue. I do practice some with mine as well, but those shots don't bother you much. The only ones that I can ever remember being uncomfortable are when you are hunched over the gun on sandbags or something where there is little to dampen recoil.

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

the only time recoil is a factor is on the range,during hunting situations you won't even notice that kick.the biggest problem about thinking about it is,flinching.think about it to much and every time you shoot you will flinch,not a good thing.put a recoil pad on the stock and wear a coat when at the range,done deal.

RE: Slug Gun Recoil
 

IF IT IS A 12 GAUGE GET RID OF IT AND GET A 20 GAUGE