I think it is an interesting cartridge but we are essentially reproducing a bunch of old cartridges these days. The ballistics on the 25 WSSM exactly match the 25-06. Federal hasn't even started manufacturing a round for the 25 WSSM and why should they? The 25-06 is the same and I can't even begin to say how many more 25-06 rifles are out there than 25 WSSM. You can make the argument that the 25 WSSM is a short action but that isn't really enough to start ammo makers to go crazy over a round.

My opinion, good cartridge, but not necessary and won't survive long.
This is kind of the story with the .260 Remington, such a great little cartridge for deer hunting, near perfect for whitetails I think, but it is slowly dying away, but it has held on for almost 13 years now.

Springfield figured it out in 1906, now that is funny. The 1903 Springfield was a military weapon, and back then an assault weapon. The 1906 round 30 caliber was a military round as well. The '98 Mauser is the father of the pre-'64 winchester model 70, another military rifle. The Enfield, with its bolt ****ing on closing setup was strictly for military purposes, and on and on and on. 9mm luger, 45 ACP, 1911A1, 223(5.56), 308(7.62), were all military at some time or another. 12 ga pump was used as a military trench gun so effective, didnt the germans accuse us of violating the Geneva Conventions? The idea an AR is an assault weapon is a political PC term, and can be twisted to include anything and everything. You may wish to consider looking into Australia's gun bans, as to what was considered an assault weapon. It is just another semi-auto that has a different look, no different then your BAR, Browning Golds, Remington 1100's, etc.
If we start finger pointing on what we like and dont like, in the end it wont matter. United we stand, divided we fall. There wont be hunting, or weapons to hunt. I dont like model 700 safeties, they are too military like with their two position system, does that mean it has no place in the woods since it may give a tactical advantage to the hunter?lol. Heck we could argue baiting and game fences are wrong. Fact is, if you dont like it, then dont use it. Using an AR is less harmful then the 2 idiots poaching in Oklahoma the other day during muzzleloader season when one shot the other by accident.

Back to the topic, the 25 wssm brings something to the table for the AR platform, but for bolt action rifles, it has to fight some stiff competition with the 25-06. With the modular format(adult erector set) of the AR, I think it will become a popular hunting round for the AR only guys.

........When most of the AR interest started was when Bill Clinton made a big deal of "assault" weapons. The gun and hunting public got nervous and started to embrace that which they thought was going to be taken away forever. Then came Bush. Back in business. Now Obama. The fear level rises once more. If you don't think that is the case, va, explain why the AR type guns were so hard to purchase immediately before his inauguration and afterward? Ammunition and reloading components too? People who didn't even care for the looks of AR-type weapons were buying them at an unbelieveable rate. Then they started to shoot them some, and found out just how darned accurate they are. Now, va, are you with me so far? OK. Guess that ought to tell you why, for the most part, guys like to hunt with them. And there isn't a darned thing wrong with that.

As far as your attack on the NRA, it just seems to me that you are completely out of touch with reality with your assertions. So the NRA has nice headquarters...So what?? So does my bank. and my Doctor's office. If it wasn't for the NRA and their lobbying efforts, I will guarantee you, mister, you probably wouldn't have the firearms freedoms you have today. May God bless Wayne LaPierre and the NRA and the GOA. Without these watchdogs on our side, we would be in a bad position. Anyone who comes on here and badmouths the NRA has their head in the sand, in my opinion. And in that position, you know what's sticking up in the air, don't you? That's the position the "anti's" love to see you in....It's soooo much easier for them to do what they do best.....

Boy, talking about destroying your own credibility with these two statements.

Not that we thought you had any to begin with.

You make it way to easy.

With the feeding and brass life issues related to the WSSM's I would not imagine them to have a very long life span.

Can you even read? One post was regarding the 30-06 caliber the other was regarding weapons design. Public education at its finest.

Really, because below is your entire post and I see nothing mentioning the 30-06 cartridge. Besides that fact a firearm can not be designed with out regard to the cartridge it will be firing. When a firearm is designed its design must include cartridge design. No matter if it is a current cartridge or a completely new cartridge design.

You might want to look into some of that public education that you mentioned. Never mind, I know it would take to much effort on your part so I will just educate you here publicly.


The M1903 rifle was originally designed to fire the 30-03 cartridge to compete with the small arms of other countries. The 30-03 did not produce the desired results with the heavy round nosed bullets and was redesigned to fire lighter weight spitzer bullets at higher velocities and named the 30-06. Both of the original designs (rifle and cartridge) were modified in 1906 to what we know today but the rifle did not get a name change like the cartridge did. They were both designed from the beginning (1903) to be the "assault rifle" and "assault cartridge" of the times and redesigned three years later (1906) before they got it right.

And if you want to get right down to it the 30-06 was originally designed in 1901... called the 30-01.


Again, a complete loss of credibility. The hole you're digging is just getting deeper and deeper.


Oh, and BTW, the 30-06 is not a caliber. It is a cartridge. It looks like more public education is in order. The number 30 is the caliber of the bullet that the 30-06 cartridge fires. It measures .308 inches in diameter. The numbers o6 refer to the year that the cartridge design was adopted by the United States Army.

I believe what I said is:

"All the world needs is another rifle cartridge"

I'm sorry that you weren't able to read between the lines when I mentioned Springfield. I was sure that someone as intelligent as you would have been able to figure that out. But please, continue to enlighten all of us about your ability to cut and paste and quote G&A verbatim. I hope you enjoy a long life of playing Rambo with white tail deer and groundhogs. The push to make AR's look like the perfect hunting rifle has done nothing but give ammo to the anti-gun crowd. I'm sure you are a little too busy to actually read and understand what the other side sees. Just keep feeding them.

Please keep spending your money on other worthless items as well. I hope when the 28 WSSM comes out you are the first to get it.

And if you need three more lines to read between, I got that for you too.

Cheers to the AR crowd. I hope more and more of these are around every day for responsible gun owners. I wish I had one. It would be awfully convenient for pdogs, awesome fun at the range, and they are just COOL guns with so many OPTIONS to play with! I hope every blood-sucking ANTI cringes at the thought of their increasing popularity.

If it weren't for the designing of new rifle cartridges you wouldn't have your beloved 30-06 because it would still be the 30-01. Oh but wait that wouldn't have been designed either.

Yeah, cut and paste. You don't even know my qualifications do you? In fact you don't even know if I own an AR or not do you? Nor do you know if I own any WSSM cartridge.

No one is trying to make the AR look like a perfect hunting rifle but they are very capable hunting rifles. Thousands of people, every year, go out and hunt with their AR rifles and do so very successfully. from prairie dogs to elk and moose.

The fact remains that you are all hung up on "assault rifle" design but nearly every single modern firearm is based heavily on a previous military designed "assault rifles". A good many of the rifle and cartridge designs are of military origin. The Colt SAA and the 45 Colt, the Springfield 1873 and 45-70 Govt., The Springfield 1903 and the 30-06, the 1911 and the 45acp, The M14 and the 308 Win, The Luger and the 9X19mm, The Browning 1900 and 32 ACP... the list goes on and on.

One would be correct in arguing against this statement. The more these firearms popularity increases the more difficult it will be for the anti gun crowd to get them banned. Remember that they aren't after our hunting rifles and only after those bad "black guns" that have no place in the sporting firearms world. It would appear to me that with companies like Remington stamping their names on them and the fact that they are being chambered in cartridges (remember we learned what a cartridge is in the last lesson) like the .243, 7mm-08, 260 Rem, that there is indeed a solid sporting base for these rifles.

The real problem is people like yourself (assuming that you do own firearms) with your illogical opinions about firearms. Your type are the biggest threat to gun ownership this country has today.


Bottom line... you don't have a leg to stand on in this debate. You lost a long time ago and should bow out gracefully.

Well, it's easy to see who the news media has suckered to their side with all the hype about AR's being only made for killing people and for use in the military. It's sad to see a gun owner not see that an AR is only different in appearence to other sporter rifles. The civilian AR is only capable of repeat fire with each pull of the trigger, just like many shotguns and rifles, BUT yet because they "look" different, they shouldn't be used for hunting purposes? Just SAD, really REALLY SAD that there are gun owners with that way of thinkin', just like those that would take ALL guns away if they could, no matter what they look like.

The only thing missing is the trauma from impacts of bullets on living tissue. Where is the bloodshot areas ?

Could of done that with a 30/30 lever gun! Wait that is an assault weapon too. Just ask General George A Custer(Custard), I heard he learned a few things about them once, even if it wasnt a 30 WCF

His name was Custer, not custard

Soooooo, what is the pic suppose to mean?

He was turned into custard, was he not?lol

Its looks alot like a buck deer I saw hangin two years ago in the neighbors vacant lot. Seems a pair of out of state hunters hadn't practiced much at shootin our very skiddish and distant deer. They hit it several times prior to it dying. Only thing different was theirs had bloodshot areas around each entry suggesting it was in fact alive when they shot it. They both used bolt guns too........

Otherwise the pic has no significance at all.

"but I've saw it before" Nice.

You're correct. It's ok to hunt with one of these. I mean, it's nothing more than a big black powder shotgun. People have been using them for hundreds of years. Oh, and a single shot at that, so no problems with the anti-crowd.

http://www.haciendapub.com/gunpage2.html
Like that Ridge Runner?

That picture to "prove your point" is kind of like Al Gore showing pictures of "drowning polar bears". All hype, no truth, nothing to do with the current topic!

of course the current topic is the usefulness of a heavy barreled, bolt action rifle chambered in 25WSSM.

Personally, I like the the specs. I don't have a 25WSSM, but I do shoot a 25-06 and the 25 WSSM gets pretty close to the '06 using 10-15% less powder. I agree with the guys that say the short case design lends itself to semi-auto's (regardless of rifle configuration). Not sure I'd want one in a bolt gun, but it's a cartridge I'd consider in an AR platform.

I had a 243wssm good gun but was so hard to find ammo and the cost of the little 95gr BT was around 40.00 a box and also they only make 4 diff bullets so for the non reloader not much selection. I had heard at on time the wssm's and wsm's of all the only ones that made the peoples choise was the 270wsm and the 300wsm I have the 270wsm and love it BUT i will not buy another NEW carthage again with out it being out for some time. IMO 25wssm is going to be a bad choise i would say go with 243 od 7mm-08 for bullet selection

Just curious what makes you say poor brass quality and poor design? Only problem I see with them is the large overbore appearance to them. If anything, they work too good? A few people said the same thing in 1894-1895 I bet about the 30 WCF, the new high velocity cartridge of the day!

Is this why you just purchased a .25-06? :busted:

Bought one for my daughter. Browning A-Bolt. The gun is short light and very accurate. It shoots so well with the 120 gr. PEP that I haven't bothered working up a good reload. Over my chrony I get 2926 fps on average. Which I feel is pretty good out of the 21" barrel on the browning. It's more of a 257 Roberts than a 25-06 clone as I can reach 2925 fps out of my remington 257 Bob. The WSSM recoil is low and my daughter has taken 2 does with it. Neither deer went more than 5 yards after the shot.

New to the forum
 

Wow, you guys are a little over the top on pushing your opinions to the point of futility. AR, bolt-action, SA, LA, single shot, whatever floats your boat...opinions are great. Just don't try to one-up each other and hijack the original poster's question.

I was searching for information related to the 25 WSSM lately for my father. We prairie dog hunt with the normal 222, 223, and 204 little guys with great results. I am on my second 204 barrel after getting a respectable 4500 out of the factory Savage. I am now around 1100 on the second Shilen tube...anyway, back to the 25 WSSM. We were considering two different ways to cheat the wind that blows on a nearly constant basis in prairie dog territory. A 204 is great out to 400 yards, but the wind can sometimes limit its ability to only 300 yards. We have scope reticles that try to deal with the wind, but the inconsistent gusty air always seems to ruin a good shot. "I would be great if we could find another varmint round that can resist a little more wind." I am currently building a 6mm BR Norma, and Dad wants to try the 25 WSSM. I think that both are going to be great rounds for this task.

I shot a 25-06 three years ago on a hunt in WY from a bench...and did not like it. Don't get me wrong, the round was absolutely great for 450-500 yard shots with devastating accuracy and down-range ballistics. But, I was not able to follow up quickly for blowing away the other three dogs on the same mound. With the SA 204, 223, or 222, I could always rechamber a round without moving my line-of-sight through the scope. The 25-06 always required me to loose my sight through the scope by allowing room for the bolt. Also, the 25 WSSM will be slightly cheaper to shoot than the 25-06 based solely on the powder. The more efficient case design allows for the same 06 performance with less powder consumed. To most shooters, that may not be a concern. But when the group goes through multiple 8-lb cans of powder each year when reloading, squeezing another 10-15% more ammo helps in the cost category. I will assume (not shot one yet) that the recoil will be slightly less from the 25 WSSM, but we will see.

The 243 WSSM or 223 WSSM are just not viable in our book, meaning barrel life. One friend shot a 22-250 for two years and needed a new tube after 2000 rounds. I suspect that one may be able to get good life (3500 rounds?) out of a 25 WSSM, but that can vary. I base this on the capacity:bore dia relationship that most refer to as an "overbored" or "underbored" cartridge. If anything, this 25 WSSM looks slightly overbored, but the fact is that the 25-06 has a bigger case capacity than the 25 WSSM. Couple the 3400-3500 fps with a decent bullet and good BC, we think the 25 WSSM would make a great bench gun for p-dogs...especially with a 28 inch varmint contour barrel (maybe reaching 3600 fps).

Lastly, I have always observed that the SA receivers are slightly more accurate than LA receivers...in general. The short stiff block of steel used to house a short cartridge would dictate a stable platform based on physics alone. That does not mean that you always get a more accurate SA over a LA, but bench shooting does not lie...308, 6 BR, 22 BR, 22/6PPC, etc... Having said that, my cousin owns a 270 Win that is an absolute tack-driver. I think of the 25 WSSM as a SA 25-06, if that is what you need. If you are deer hunting...it probably does not matter.

So, we have a special requirement that the 25 WSSM should fill nicely. At the same time, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 25-06 round. I have always noted that the older generation will always stick to what they are used to...and sometimes they are right. In this case, I don't see why variety in cartridges is a bad thing as they all sometimes fill a specific job.

So, back to the original topic, which I might add, is nearly 6 years old now. For those of you that posted on this thread 6 years ago and said that the WSM and WSSM's are "useless" "will never last"...etc. etc...Well, the 25 WSM is 8 years old now, give or take and it is alive and well. The AR platform loves it (I own an AR in 223...not a huge fan of it, it's not as accurate as my lesser priced heavy barreled 223 bolt rifles...but would never hunt with it...fact, rarely shoot it, but that's another story for another day).

I recently purchased a Browning A-Bolt in 25 WSSM...had wanted one for a log time, but as a left handed shooter...well I was under the impression no one ever made a left handed in the 25 WSSM, imagine my excitement when I found one used recently in like new shape. I had almost given up and bought a 25-06 or a 257 Bob...glad I didn't, although I am sure I will need one of each eventually. I fell in love with the WSM's first, while in an elk hunt in eastern Oregon several years ago...when a buddy of mine showed up at camp with a new Browning A-Bolt in 300 WSM...stats that match the 300 WIN, significantly less recoil, more accurate (IMHO), and a full pound lighter (it makes a difference after 10 hours of hiking!)...oh, and a nice short-action. Finally last year I came across a Tikka T-3 Stainless Lite (left-handed) in 270 WSM and bought it. I deer hunted in Michigan last year and shot 4 deer in 3 days with it...all 1 shot insta-drop kills with Nosler 140g Accu Bonds. I typically hunt this hunt with a 270 WIN...my new Tikka lived up to its promise 1/2 MOA out of the box with factory Federal Premium ammo in both the 130g Nosler Ballistic Tip and 140 Nosler Accu Bonds. Between my friend and I this rifle took 8 deer in 3 days, and only fired 9 rounds (some people miss at times...LOL). The recoil is less than my 270 WIN, the rifle is more accurate than the 270 (which is a Remington 700 BDL with a Pac-Nor barrel and free floated and crisp 1.75 pound trigger), and it is lighter...and a short action. Another friend that joins us on our annual Michigan hunt carry's a Browning A-Bolt in 243 WSSM on the hunt using 100 Nosler Partitions...animal almost always fall in their tracks when hit...(not that a well placed shot from just about any caliber won't do the same). I can't wait to load some 100g Nosler Partitions and take the 25 WSSM on a deer hunt!

Point is, the WSM's and WSSM's have a strong following and are alive and well...selling like hot cakes still.

So now...I have the WSSM and the WSM I wanted...now, what's next? ;)