Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

This topic may have already posted but if it did I missed it. There are enough manufacturers in the market but I can't understand why Winchester couldn't make it when others are. What was so different about them?

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

I would guess that their nearly complete lack of innovation had something to do with it ( except WSMs, which they seemed to go overboard with ) and the fact that they only made a few mdels for the last 40 years. Everyone and their brother already has a winchester 94, and there is no big demand for new ones, Model 70s are nice rifles, but aren't anything special when there is a dozen other companies making similar rifles, and their shotguns weren't anything special or outstanding either.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

They claim that the Unions are the big factor. I would have thought that the Short Mags would have pulled them through but maybe the Wincester (OLIN )was the driving force there and also the recieved the financial benifits.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

This has me scratchin my head too. You got companies out there without a following, without too much of a name and they are able to get the job done. But you got winchester (us repeating) that has a cult following and repeat customers and still can't cut the mustard.

I have a feeling its like colt. Just mismanaged and refusing to leave New England to lower cost. I mean they pick one of the most expensive places in the US to work.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

Actually, most all Winchester mechanical shotguns (omitting the SXS's, like the Model 21!!) have been rather poor. They really crapped up the Model 94 three decades ago, and with all thge similarly priced Model 70 cloneson the market, they lost their real advantage, which was the Model 70 of the pre-64 configuration. When they brought it back, more or less, it was too late. Particularly considering that the new "old" Model 70's have been plagued with quality control issues that the pre-64's didn't have!

Also, don't lose sight of the fact that USRAC was owned by an international conglomerate headquartered in continental Europe where the anti-gun mentality predominates, and it is likely those owners could have cared less if a US gunmaker went belly-up! The Brits who owned S&W a couple years back damn near did the same thing to that old outfit! The way those morons sold out to the Clinton administration was totally dishonorable, and nearly cost them all their business. We're lucky Americans reclaimed S&W in time to save it.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

Wait, I guess I'm behind the times. Did Winchester recently file for chapter 11 or something?

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

More than likely bad management they seem to screw up more business than anything. Rich

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

In one of the news releases a while back, they told how much they were spending in pensions. It was unbeleivable how much money was going out to past workers, with nothing to show for it. I think that played a very big roll in Winchester having to shut it's doors. JMHO

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

Redhead. The closed it down, Period.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

NO! The Belgian conglomerate that owned USRAC CLOSED the plant where M94's, M70's, and M1300 shotguns were being made. No more M94's, No more M70's!! Winchester (Olin) IS NOT AFFECTED-WIN. AMMO, ETC., WILL STILL BE MADE!

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

Yes, it seems they will no longer build guns. Its really kind of sad. Winchester is such an old name in arms. They werekind of an icon in the gun industry.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

Big companies can be like that. They get to be so preoccupied with catering to share holders (another class of customers) they lose touch of their grass roots customers. Of course they are the ones that drive revenues. Then they get nervous about creating expenses that result from the cost of innovation that is necessary to stay current.Instead they cut costs until there is nothing left to cut. Winchester seems to manage their ammo division well enough, but haven't been very exciting in their gun division. Savage on the other hand, has shown the world that you can be innovative and still cater to your market niche. They have practically reinvented themselves with the accutrigger. I can't say I know what their stock is like, but I'm pretty sure it has more potential than some of the other gun manufacturers.

Just my morning rant! I'm off the soapbox now!

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

Winchester hasn't existed for decades....only the name lived on...

The company was bought by Olin who leased it to USRAC who run the plant until recently.

We have lots of speculation as to what is happening but it looks to me like there's union busting happening here. Expensive equipment was removed from the Connecticut plant some time ago.....why???...I think it's going to be used elsewhere of course.

Winchester will be back.....who the licensee is remains to be seen.....will it be marked "made in the USA"?...who knows but the M-70 will be offered again with the name Winchester on it and it's just a matter of price and where it's made.

The Winchester story is the story of the United States.....the jobs are going overseas and the executives are still collecting their share....

The picture is far larger than Winchester.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

I believe its the belgians not caring if americans lose their jobs. If the unions are keeping companys from being profitable and the company has to move overseas are the unions actually helping the american worker? I hope Olin will lease the trademark to an American company that will build Winchester firearms here and employ American workers.

RE: Why couldn't Winchester survive?
 

....And Americans whining about capitalism which has given them the high standard of living that they enjoy.
What's the point? Marlin makes a better levergun, Ruger and CZ make rifles that are practically identical to the model 70, and like others said, Winchester shotguns are nothing to write home about. Only a complete fool would want to purchase those trademarks and build those firearms.