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12GA From Hell

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12GA From Hell

Old 12-27-2008, 08:17 PM
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 483
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

The BPI sabot is tending toward small diameter.
With a .512" slug it measures . 727"---So I run one
into die and reduced it .020". It is lead, swaged easy.
Shot a BPI sabot with 385gr Great plains slug in 700HE
great big gun pictured above. That Great plains slug
was reduced .020". With 300gr of super fast ball
powder blend in 3.85" case got over 4500.
Using slugs with locked on bases and RG's hollowbase
jacketed slug in 3.5" RMC brass cases in the 1887
Win levergun. RG's 670 gr HB- 2500 . Brenekke KO
435gr- 2700, Lightfield 460 gr- 2600 . Even got
a 385gr in BPI sabot to target straight.Levergun has
34" smooth barrel and with chamber for 3.5" long
cases it is run as singleshot. Barrel is a tight smoothbore
going from .726" to .722". Took out lifter and other
stuff and put in a bottom style extractor I built that
is operated by the lever at bottom of opening
stroke. Then take cases out with fingers, thus able to
handle long cases in a short action.Makes a real old timey,
neat looking, single shot blaster.Ed
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Old 01-01-2009, 01:00 AM
Fork Horn
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Posts: 483
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

Before I posted about testing a NEF in 10ga with
a medium heavy barrel. The newer one is better.
It is the one I showed the ported barrel previously.
I did some 10ga FH testing in that newer, real
heavy barreled, NEF 10ga, that is going to soon be an
8GA FH, after reaming out. The internal brake set up
on the end as shown in picture above works great.
I stopped all of the muzzle rise and cut recoil
Gun now is 14 lbs and has thumbhole stock.
Top load with 3.5" plastic case, 765gr slug,
135gr of 4227, 2200 fps, 8200 ft lbs.Ed
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:47 PM
Fork Horn
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Posts: 483
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

28GA FH new slug.. The Lyman cast 20ga slug made to
fit in a 20ga shotcup for 20 ga slug hunters, works perfect
in the 28GA FH brass case. It is a hollowbases hourglass
shaped 362 gr slug. No wadcups or wads needed, loaded
right on powder. It is the slug you buy the molds to cast
your own or you can buy them from guys who cast for
sale. I use slow rifle powders in case so no air space,
they fill to the slugs. I got 2900 with moderate case
expansion and it hits target straight on, from a smooth
28ga heavy barrel on 695 Mossberg bolt action.
Other new info on primers. Some of the guns can't have the
firing pins or hammers beefed up easy like my Enfields
With some magnum primers with hard cups you get delayed
ignition if hammer doesn't have perfect hit and high strength.
One test with a small diameter case/bore that any primer will
ignite slow powders fine with good firing pin spring would
show delayed ignition with shotgun battery cup style 209
CCI Mag and 209 Federal Mag primers, and when I tested them
in cases with just the primers, they only put in a small dent
when they fired, but WIN 209, REM 209, RWS 209(used in
Brenekkes, Lightfields, Hastings), dented in much more when
firing just the primer. And with the smaller bore you had fire out
the end of the barrel, so you could compare primer strength
visually. The REM 209 was as good or better than CCI and FED
209 Mag Primers. The WIN and RWS was close behind. We put
the REM in same case/gun where that we had delayed ignition
and it fired instantly, no delay. The two mag primer brands have
the primer insert in cup rounded a lot and little harder metal,
and the other 3 metal cup insert is almost flat and slightly
softer. It is easier to get a better more solid strike and dent.
I always figured mag primers were best in our hopped
up shotgun loads but not anymore. It took a while but I finally got
everything around for proper test. Hopped up loads(regular also)
we have talked about, use REM 209, where the firing pins
and hammers can't be strengthened. Even loads with Longshot,
Blue Dot, Steel, HS6-7, etc.
Hope this helps.....ED
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:30 AM
Fork Horn
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Default RE: 12GA From Hell

More pimer info-- Some guys tell me that large rifle primers
in Magtech and other brands that make brass 12 ga cases
are more powerful than shotgun primers in brass cases.
First of all there is no major mfg selling loaded brass ammo
so their isn't lot of them out there with shotgun primers,
that have to meet industry specs and reliability.
It is mainly reloaders doing it. The large rifle primers are
flat on top once loaded in the case and they are not real
hard metal so they give real good ignition, hence the thinking
they are stronger than shotgun primers. But if shotgun primers
are ignited ok they do have a little more power as can be
seen in my smaller shotgun barrel tests where the flame
comes out the end of the 28ga barrel to see easy, and
you see how far the flame extends. And lab tests show that if
both ignited ok that shotgun primers are stronger.
I've had too many click bangs and the purpose of this
bunch of tests is to get primer reliability for guys reloading
slugs with all the variances in cases, headspace, firing
pin strength, different powders etc. So others don't
get misfires and delayed ignition. ED[/align]
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:46 PM
Fork Horn
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Posts: 483
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

Here is picture my NEF, soon to be, 8ga gun.
It weighs 15 lbs. The hollow butt and hollows
in the forearm are weighted. It has a neat recoil
barrel ring I added so forearm stays put.
It has internal brake on barrel that I picture
earlier in thread with the porting holes.
Second picture is a Lyman 520 gr slug on the right
that we are testing . They go in regular 12ga shotcups,
and many folks have good accuracy with them, even
in smooth bores. They are hollowbase nose-heavy
design. These are the ones you cast your own.
And there are guys casting some for sale.
You see two in wadcups on the right.
On the left is my prototype of the Lyman
style, of 900gr for our 8GA FH. Going to get a
mold made. The base of it will fit the 8ga shotcup
used in the kiln gun loads, and the front will be our
smoothbore 8ga size, .832-835". I designed this
as the flat ended kiln slug wasn't designed
to give 100yd accuracy in a smoothbore. Ed

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Old 01-16-2009, 09:21 PM
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 483
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

The picture is some aluminum cored jacketed slugs
RG made, weighing 385 gr. Full .730" diameter, hollowpoint,
and one I filled nose with glue gun. Fairly streamlined. 3600 in
the Savage with our long case..Slug is nice and long,
1.22" HP and 1.4" with plastic I put in the nose.
In Nef with RMC 3.5" brass case 2700, 3.5" plastic 2500. Ed

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Old 01-17-2009, 11:29 AM
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,408
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

How do you form plastic noses?
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:20 PM
Typical Buck
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N. Illinois
Posts: 527
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

How is this going now? Have you sold any?

ORIGINAL: hubel458

I'm visiter here telling about a new project that I mentioned in the slug guns thread. It is called the 12GA From Hell, that three of us
over on AR has worked on for last 2+ years. It is a long 12ga paradox style cartridge, but with a stronger case than used in the old days. We made case from bmg brass by putting a 12 ga size rim on bmg brass.First picture shows our case next to regular 12ga case, which can also be fired in our chambers.Second pictture
is my Savage 210 that I put cartridge in using heavy barrel and stock. I've got over 10,000 ft lbs with the Savage, other guys more with their heavier actions. Ed Hubel.

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Old 01-18-2009, 01:39 AM
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 483
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

I fill the hollowpoint with glue gun leaving a blob of glue
on the outside.After it is hard shave it to a point with
trim knife. it is hard enough to stand air pressure but
yet allow the slug to mushroom.

I don't make guns for sale, just tell folks what to get
them and what to do to get big powerwith them,
and found sources of slugs, cases, better powders
to use. Rob the fellow who's idea this was will be making
cases. RMC is making cases, We have developed hopped
up loads for brass and plastic cases.Ed
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:29 PM
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 483
Default RE: 12GA From Hell

RIP on AR forums been testing starter powders loads, with
shotgun primers,with Blue Dot starter and HBMG main load. And
I just tested some variety of ones myself.
Doing some testing with starter powder, 15gr Blue Dot, with
slower powders that fill the cases with minimum wads.
Tested in 3.5" RMC case in NEF with shotgun primer,
with 36" added to barrel.Remember I have extra foot of bbl.
These 4 top loads expanded case, where I check it, just above
thick base section to .811" from .807" resized.
1000gr jacketed, 230gr HBMG, 1800 fps, 7200 ft lbs,
with 1/8" cards and 1/4" felt wad.
715gr jkt, 270gr HBMG, 2200, 7600 ft lbs, 1/8" card.
600gr Dixie, 250 gr Retumbo, 2400, 7600 ft lbs, 1/8" card.
385gr jkt AL core, 250 gr RL25,2900, 7200 ft lbs.
This is faster than lighter loads in NEF, using 4227 powder.
Now the starter powder loads, which a few guys like, increase
powder speeds so that HBMG acts like RL25. In first example,
with 1000 gr in RMC case you couldn't use 230gr of RL25
as that would expand RMC brass too much and stick the case.
A few guys have found that slow powder, with starter
powder is easiest for 1000gr and heavier loads.
On another note, I've heard around the grapevine that if
enough of us ask for NEF to make available a 12ga Ultra with
a 28" rifled bull barrel that they would do it.Start calling
folks, maybe do some good. Just tell them these new sabot
and fullbore slug loads need more barrel to get the velocity
out of them. 1-866-776-9292. Ed
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