more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

if you guys recall....i take a American Military Expirience class...instructed by 2 Seargant first class guys...well the one told me a AK-47..typical common AK-47 fires a 308 and is the same thing as a 7.62x39 when i told him that is the round they fire......

well today.....were learning about the m16....today the same guy tells us it fires a 5.56..aka 223.....i agree...muzzle velocity is around 3100fps...ok i agree it should be around there......THEN he asks who hunts..couple of us raise our hands....he asks how fast does a 308,270,30-06or our typical deer riflesfire....i raised my hand...i know my 30-06 fires around 2700-2900fps....of course he KNEW i had a better answer then he did..and he answered his own question.....sit down for this guys....his answer was about 1200fps!!!! i knew better then to try and argue.....but im sitting here looking at remingtons ballistic chart for a 3006 and a 223..and im thinking about printing it and putting it in his mailbox with the numbers highlighted....

he also tried to tell us that rifleing gives accuracy..ok i agree...and he said when the "muskets" were used and were rifled it would taken atleast 5 minutes of POUNDING a bullet down the bore because of the rifleing...except for mini's because they were smaller and the bottoms expand when fired..agree with that.......but i dont think its ever taken my 5 minutes or more to load my flintlock....WITH rifling! lol...

just thought id let you guys know the latest news.....all of our 30-06s, 270s, and 308s only do around 1200fps....and the m-16 is a far superior weapon when it comes to penetration and "stopping power".......

shouldnt he know a little something about a 308??? hes been in the military 20 some years....it kills me to bite my tounge when i KNOW im right......but i know its the right thing to do......its his job to teach me.....i shouldnt waste my breath trying with him...and just make our relationship rocky....but man some of the BS he piles out sometimes....

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

go here and print this off for him. This guy is a nut case and you need some one else to teach the class. I was in sniper school many years ago and I am dam glad I had some one that new what was going on it saved my life many times and learn to hit a target at 1000 yards. I fill truly sorry for you that you have to listin to junk like that he need his stripes PULLED and I mean fast make him a p.f.c.Before he get someone killed and you can tell him I said so to.
Ballistics Charts

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

i wouldnt be surprised if he had a desk job or something...i mean i respect him for serving our country....but pleasssssse do not talk about something you dont have a clue about like you know it all.....i know i dont know everything...but you wont find me TEACHING about something i have no clue about.....worse part was....another kid in the military AGREED with him about the muzzle velocity and the kid claimed to be a hunter....if thats whats taught in the military im glad i didnt go......i would been shipped home after a day because id end up opening my mouth and correcting them...he preached the m-16 like it was gold.....said its the most accurate rifle out there.......guess he never got to shot a sniper rifle...which has a much farther effective range then an m-16 and is far more accurate....guess he doesnt know much more then he was taught from the military...going to the range to fire the m-16 thursday....and another lecture on it wed...should be rather interesting....i feel bad for the kids in the class that dont know any better and buy into it....i really wanted to take the second class next semester..think i get some leadership award if i do....and its a pretty dang easy 3 credits....but i dont know....i should show up to the range with my own m4 carbine and a case of ammo.....he crapped himself when i broke down the m-16 and put it back together before he got done telling the class how to break it down......

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

Ever heard the saying "Sometimes you have to walk through the cow dung, to collect the milk money."

Take the courses, listen to this guy, collect the credits and move on.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

Next time ask him to explainthe difference between cover and concealment, then ask him if trees are considered cover or concealmentwhen 556s are being fired at you, then again ask him the same question as if US .30s or 7.62 nato bullets are being shot at you. ;)

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

Also ask him why service rifle shooters use pretty much the same 'come ups' (elevation adjustments) out to 600 yards whether they are shooting the US .30, the 7.62x51 or 5.56x45. Yes, the 5.56 starts out a little faster, but the .30 bullets are a bit slipperier which evens things out downrange. If the 5.56 bullets were fired at nearly 3x the velocity of the .30s as your instructor said, this wouldn't be true.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

Mauser I hope you don't judge all soldiers by this guy's lack of info on a class he should have no problem teaching. I have run into some guys in the military that you wonder how they got through basic training. But I can assure you most of the people in the military no there job's and do them well. I would assume this is a civilian school he is teaching at and more than likley he saw it as an easy way out of some real work. Any way I also took the military experience class for 8 years. So i can somewhat judge this guy

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

nchawkeye....im not complaining about the class....its a pretttttty dang simple 3credits...show up and youll pass....200pts is attendance out of like 500...just chaps my @$$ a little to hear some of the BS that comes out of his mouth sometimes....and the whole 308 is the same as a 7.62x39...that could ended up tobe dangerous if someone went home and tried that one out!!!..and he said one day he could "go nuts and kill someone in the class room and blame it on the stress from being in iraq and get away with it" or something to that extent....i do like it when he says the truth.."military equiptment is bought from the LOWEST bidder and isnt all that great...." Briman.....i dont wanna make the guy feel dumb! lol....but he keeps it up i can definently slip something into his mailbox without him having a clue who it came from....

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

I think if I were in your shoes I would have to point out his total lack of knowledge on the subject of rifles, ammunition and ballistics. Wether it made him feel like an idiot or not is none of my concern. He should have a basic knowledge of what he is teaching.

Speak up. It's not your fault that he doesn't have a clue. Maybe you will save someones life because you pointed out the difference between a 7.62X39 and a .308.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

I had that trouble the 1st time I joined the services now that I’m going back I will have to bite my tong even more then normal as I will have to “learn” the basics again.
Funny when you consider that I used to teach the advanced courses before I left less than 2 years ago.
I have a feeling that I’m going to spend a lot of sleepless nights banging my head against the wall.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

I thought everyone knew about the problems that our boys have had with the M16 and the lack of killing ability/knock-down power of the 5.56 round in Iraq. This reminds me of a math teacher I had in high school. He told me that a transmission in a vehicle was what "transmitted" the up and down motion of the piston to a spinning motion. "That's why its called a transmission", he said. I asked him what a crankshaft did and he looked at me like I was insane.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

I was a crew chief in the AF back in the late 80's. Had a pilot come back in after flight and was giving us a big "thumbs down", letting us know he'd experienced some sort of problem in flight.As he climbed out of the jet he handed theaircraft forms to someone else who began reading the write up. I walked over and looked and could not believe what I was reading....this officer had writtenup the following, radio will not work in the "OFF" position.I then politely explained to him that the radio was not supposed to work in the "OFF"position. Needless to say he was a little embarrased, especially since there was a Lt. Colonel standing nextto him.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

"sit down for this guys....his answer was about 1200fps!!!!"

(He must be talking about the Trapdoor Springfield in .45/70! How old is this guy? He's obviously been around for a LONG TIME!!)

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

He's pretty ignorant about firearms, that is for sure. It is not terribly uncommon among many military and LEO folks. They have no interest in the subject, hear something, and pass it along in a garbled version.

He probably heard the 7.62x39 and .308 fire a (approximatly) .30 caliber bullet. Therefore, they must be the same, in his mind.

I worked with a medically retired Marine captain, and former LEO from Georgia. We were disussing shotgun slugs, and he mentioned he didn't like hunting with them, because their muzzle velocity was only about 600 FPS. I looked at him like he had carrots growing out of his ears!

Your instructor also has read something of Europan military history. Back in the days before the cloth patch was accepted practice for shooting in rifles, anaked lead ball WAS driven down the bore with a steel RAMrod. It was a lengthy process, and the rifle wasn't considered a suitable military arm because of that. Give him partial credit for that one.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

I recommend you direct this guy's attention to the Sharpe's series of movies about the war against Napoleon in Spain-he could learn something about both black powder muskets and ML rifles!!

The idea that prior to the development of the patched round ball for use in rifles that a pure lead ball had to be hammered down a barrel is a crock! A myth, actually. Anyone who has ever loaded an UNPATCHED soft lead ball into a ML barrel knows that without the patch, the ball goes down EASIER after it has been forced into the bore than a patched ball does!

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

Except for balls that are bore diameter, not bore minus patch clearance. I'm talking 1500s, here, well before the development of corned powder. Fouling was a tough problem for the very early riflemen. If this wasn't the case, why did so many inventors and gunmakers develop, or try to develop, a system that would allow rifles to be loaded almost as quickly a a smoothbore musket. One system was designed to have a ledge in the barrel at the breech, the ball was upset by smacking it with the loading rodto expand it an fill the windage.

I'll check some of my refernces when I get home, if I have time. I know WW Greener mentioned continental use of bare balls in rifles in that time period, and the loading difficulties.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

Your teacher must be a dumb @$$ and will surely run for public office!!! Our local Tech School just hired a welding instructer who cant weld for crap, I don't know how these things happen but they do. He'll likely become mayor someday; ha ha.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

the guys is probably in the 30-40yr old range....hes been in the service for 21yrs i think he said......i dont judge THE whole military by him.....but it shocks me at his total lack of knowledge when it comes to fire power....SOME of the militarys snipers use a 308 correct...id figure hed know a 308 isnt doing 1200FPS!!! he is teaching at a state college i attend.....but he says hes active duty.....and just got back from iraq not too long ago....im sure he knows his stuff about the military and seems like an alright guy except for passing along BS.....theres kids in there that will probably sell their SLOW 308s ect to buy a 223 to deer hunt with....because they were told its the fasts bullet with the most penetration and knockdown power out there.....i personally feel that they SHOULD carry something along the lines of a 308....for better knockdown power.....but its bigger....heavier.....and more recoil ..

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

The instructors should definitely get their facts straight.
A simple solution for them would be to use a chart in class that includes the cartridges to be discussed. That way, no one is trying to remember all of the details off the cuff.

I wonder if this "M-16/.223 is supperior" stuff is related to an observation I've made by talking with those who have carrei dthem as 'issue' weapons.
It seems that if the M-16 is the gun you get handed, and your instructor tells you it is THE bestsmall armon the battlefield, you might tend to believe it. This may be either because you do not know any better, or because you want to believe that those who are charged with your safety have chosen wisely, and that you are well protected while going into harms way.

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

good point bulzeye..goes along with my thinking...he might know his military stuff and what he was taught through the army...but other then that he dont know beans from tomatos..a chart would be a good idea for him....but thats not what the class is about.....its just to teachthe students a little about what the military is like and about ect...we learn a little basics of some of the stuff....so ballistics dont come up all to often..but when they do.....hes bound to be wrong...going to fire 10rds from the m-16 tomarrow.....should be interesting...i hope their sights are on on them "superior m-16s!!!" he said he dont expect anyone to hit the target at 25yds...think its a half body silloute from the way he been talking....but if them guns are on they will all be on the paper from me...speaking of sights....i have to look at more ballistics.....he said the m-16s sights are on at 25yds(maybe meters) and again at 300yds or meters...i never looked at 223s ballistics that closely....but i have a feeling that 300 is stretching the truth....does that make sense to anyone?? just wondering...like i said i never looked at the 223s ballistics to closely...cant wait for tomarrow! i wish i was a member of that range...id be shootin my toys before AND after class just to show off lol.....

RE: more garbage from the military teacher.....
 

The Army does zero the M16 at 25 yards, and then the range goes out to 300. I have really tried to forget the Mattel Toy, but oh well. It has 2 rear sights, too, so you can hit the far target.