.300 WM Or .300WSM
 

In your opinion I am at looking at buying should I go with the proven .300 WM or try the new short action Mag. I am looking to buy a elk gun.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

when you say .300 WM do you mean weatherby mag or winchester mag?

If you mean winchester mag, then I'd go with the trustly 300 win mag. MOre readily available ammo, basically equal ballistics and lots more rifle choices.

If you mean WEatherby mag, then you pick.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

There isn't really much difference performance wise and both appear to be here to stay.If you don't reload the 300winmag does offer more choices in factory loads.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I hate words like "proven" or "trusted" when talking about rifle cartridges. It means absolutely nothing. The only thing proven or trusted is that if you fire a 180 grain bullet at 3000 fps into the boiler room it will kill what it hits regardless of the shape of the case. Established is a word that works but the 300WSM is firmly established and going no where.

The old argument about the 300 Win mag having more available factory loads is no longer a concern as the 300wsm now has a very substantial factory list of loadings. The only major manufacturer that doesn't load for it is Hornady and for the life of me I don't understand why.

The argument about the Win mag being able to use the bullets over 180 grains better isn't of any concern either due to the construction of bullets available today. What one can do with a 200 grain soft nosed bullet another can do with a 165 or 180 grain bullet of better construction. If I need anything heavier than a 180 grain bullet out of a 300 magnum then I am stepping up in bullet diameter as well.

Rifle choices? Every single major manufacturer now chambers the 300wsm so rifle choices abound for both cartridges. And I don't know of any custom or semi-custom rifle maker that won't chamber for the wsm.


So it basically boils down to what you want.

Long action or short action?
Belted case or non belted case?
How heavy of a rifle do you want?

These are your only three real concerns with these two cartridges.

Personally, I will take a short action over a long and definetly take a non belted case over a belted one every time. If weight is of a concern hunting elk then the wsm generally be available in lighter weight rifles. It's usually only ounces but every ounce counts when huffing it up a mountain at 10,000 feet.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

BB, would it be safe to assume you are a 300WSM owner? ;):D

The300WSM and 300WinMagare close to being an even heat, so put 'em in a bag, shake them up, and pull one out, or just go with your fancy.
.
Honestly though, if I was stepping up from a 30-06 or .308 and still staying with the 30 cal.family I'd step up enough to really make a significant difference in performance for my trouble. I personallywould go straight to a 300 Remington Ultra Mag in a heart beat.

** Long Fat Cartridges and a Massive Action (heart warming)
** No belts (if that really an issue, I kinda like 'em myself, never had any problems) [H&H lineage signature]
** Heavy rifles (so they hold nice and steady when you pull down on something) (leavethe weight onmy rifle andkeep the pounds off ofmy gut.)
**Outstanding Performance

Either one of the earlier two is a nice rifle thoughand all are quite suitable for elk.Good man, I'm proud of you.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

DITTO what bigbulls said!!!

;)
RA

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I think if the 300Win was so great and didnt need an improvement, then the 300WSm wouldnt be one of the most popular calibers out now, which is amazing since there were already so many 30 cal magnum and non magnum choices before it was introduced.(no I dont have either, I have the 300wby) For the most part I think shorter action=better action.

As far as saying make the rifle heavier and I'll take a few less pounds on my gut, well thats just foolish. Id take the lighter rifle any day of the week. The light weight rifles usually cost more then the standard weights so obviously lighter is better. THats like saying oh give me those 4lbs each boots, instead of the lighterones that are just as warm.Alot of binos and scopes are judged not just by the glass but by the wieght. If you want a workout then put some wrist weights on. No matter what you gut looks like you still have to carry that extra wieght around thats why we dont see everyone with a 28" heavy contour barrel(or somethingridiculously heavey like that)walking threw the woods.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

A lightweight 300 would not be my cup of tea.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I would pick the 300 WSM although both cartridges are equal to the task. I also consider the 300 Win Mag to be a tried and true cartridge. (sorry);). I do see your point though. They are both balistically equal.

JUST FOR ME THOUGH, I would rather have the plague than a 300 RUM.:DFor those who need or want the recoil of that beast, they are welcome. I have a friend who had to have one but he is scared to death of it. He has shot one box of shells in five years. When he takes it to the range to check the zero, it takes hum 20 minutes to get up the nerve to fire that one round. He says a little prayer that it stays zeroed so he doesn't have to shoot it twice. But he LOVES it.;)

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

300RUMs are equivalent to 30-378 Weatherby's, another level of play....

Foolish for y'all perhaps, but just fine for me. I've got a fly weight 338WinMag (a waspy little thing) and it is definitely not one of my favorites; maybe when I get older and weaker. Recoil management is one reason why folks that have been around the block with the bigger stuff don't want light rifles and strong magnum cartridges in the same package (unless you like muzzlebrakes),especially if they ever plan on practicing with it at all.

I'm figuring afterwarm 458 Lott or 416 Rigby rounds, the 300 RUM recoil will be completely doable anddocile by comparison; however, I respect it and don't want to go light with it. My M-70 375H&H weighs 11.5 pounds loaded, scoped, and slung and is my favorite elk rifle,so I figure I have a little room on the weight end of things. Weight is one of my friends in a magnum rifle and IMHOheavier rifles"hold on target better" at the moment of truth than a flyweight wand especially shooting offhand (and even off of a rest). They may not be as sexy or as "in vogue" as titanium and plastic; however,IMHO "light weight and strong magnums" are a combination that helps to fuel the "recoil sensitivity" [:'(][:'(][:'(]so common among Americans -- not the whole story by any means, but it is a piece of it. Again, leave the weight in my rifle (I didn't say add weight)and in my camel back (water)but noton my gutnor in my bootsnor in my backpack. BTW, treadmills are useful.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

Havingowned and fired both,I don't agree.The 300ultramag does give up about 100fps in velocity but it also produces noticeably less recoil than the 30-378.I find the recoil of my 300ultramags much closer to that of my 300wby.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I have to agree with you on the rifle weight issue. I have a bunch of Remingtons - most of them are wearing #5 contour barrels. I'll put up with the weight to get that extra steadiness when it comes time to launch a bullet. Our military apparently follows the same philosophy with sniper rifles. They have actually gotten heavier over the years instead of lighter; and I think they started outwith varmint profile barrels.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

.300 Win. Mag. Good luck.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I never had much of a problem with recoil being an issue. Usually if you are buying one of the superduper mags they are for longer range shooting, most of which would be from a rest, so I dont see how a heavier rifle would help you stay steadier on a rest then a lighter one. If you are shooting without a rest I cant see a big 300whatevermag being needed since I doubt most people can shoot offhanded to the distances you gain over the normal caliber.This may be one of those to each their own deals but the ultra light guns cost more which usually equals a better gun, their must be somethingfor most people if they are willing to spend an extrafew hundred bucks pluson them.

IMO--I dont think you can compare the ranges we need to shoot at while hunting to what are military shooters need to be capable of shooting at. So I dont think their choice in rifle weight changes what a hunter should have.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I might be a little biased here, but I would opt for the .300 Win Mag. I say "biased" because I'm having a .300 WM tube put on one of my Sakos right now. I had thought about buying a Kimber .300 WSM, but decidedto have the Sako rebarreled instead.

As far as rifle weight is concerned I personally prefer a heavier gun.Ifind them to besteadier, even on a rest, and of course they lessen felt recoil, which can be a problem when you do a lot of shooting off the bench testing loads.

I haven't checked the prices of light guns versus heavier ones, but if a light gun costs more, I suspect it's because it requiresextra machining in order to eliminate material from the standard version. Extra machining equals extra time and money. I don't think a lighter gun automatically equates to better quality, however.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

After shooting a 4.5 pound single shot 12 gauge with 3 inch nitros....gimme the heavier gun. If it gets heavy I will take a break and set it down for a while. The memories of getting smacked upside the head by that thing are NOT pleasant.


The moral to this story is unless you are impervious to recoil...weight is our friend when it comes to big guns. Easier to hold steady, less felt recoil, and remember anything heavier is almost always more durable.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

Ask a benchrest shooter,and they will explain that a heavier rifle is an advantage for precision shooting off of a rest.Imyself shoot more accurately with a heavier riflein almost all shooting positions.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

Absolutely. If my last 300 Win Mag would have weighed 10-11 lbs, I would probably still have it.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

IMO I think you guys are nutz.
If the heavier rifles are so great for HUNTING.Benchrest shooters care way to much about their 2nd and 3rd shots to comparewhat they do to hunting.Why doesnt everygun manu. offer their magnums with 28" bull barrels. Ive never see anyone hunting with these beasts. I understand on the bench they may be better but what happens on the bench and in the field arent the same.

I cant see a heavier or lighter rifle being more of lesssteady off ofa rest in the field. To me a rest holds the gunpretty steady even if its a handgun. If I do shoot off handed I personally can hold my aim point longer with the lighter rifle because my left arm doesnt wear out as fast compared to a heavy gun.

ALot of the manufactorers brag on the lack of weight ofa gun. Ive never seen the "Look how heavy our guns are" commercials. Ultra light arms wouldnt even be in business if the heavy guns were the guns we all thought were more accurate and betterfor hunting.

Fact is the longer barrels give more performance then the shorter ones but most dont want the extra weight so most of us have 24" barrels or less. If most agreed with you guys we'd all prob have at least a 26" barrel.

Maybe Im nutz but you guys are the first Ive ever heard of wanting heavier rifles for hunting.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I am not saying that heavier guns are better for hunting,but rather thatI find iteasier to be accurate with them.Of course if you are going to carry a gun great distances,it is desireable to have a lighter rifle tomake the rifle easier to carry.It is always a compromise.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I have owned both and still have the 300WSM. You can't go wrong either way.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

Duckbutter, you make good points. I should probably qualify my previous post by saying that here in Mississippi there's not much gun totin' going on. There are no mountains to climb and there's no spot and stalk hunting that I know of. Practically all hunting (I'm talking about deer hunting) is done from stands or blinds and that'show I hunt. So, a heavy gun (within reason) is not a hinderance to me and is what I prefer.

If I were in a different situation and did a lot of walking with a rifle, I'm sure I'd want something lighter. But that still doesn't change my belief that a heavier gun is easier to shoot accurately.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

First of all, per the thread topic, either 300WM or 300WSM is good and way better the typical"is this okay for elk?" threadss that we get around here.

Second, Duck, I DON'T consider you to be nuts (or any other label) for liking the light weight rifles. If light weight and plastic and higher dollar = higher qualityfits your view of things, then fine. If that fits your needs/preferences at this station in life then that is fine, and absolutely nothing wrong with a 300 Wby. Go for it.

Third, you are right one will be able to hold a light rifle without a rest longer, not a lot longer, but longer. On the other hand, if it is an off-hand shot, then it is a close shot and if it is a close shot on elk, thenthe window don't last long. Furthermore, my observation is the longer people take to shoot (don't go to extremes here) the less likely they are to get something. Close target--offhand--acquire sight picture--think kill--fire. That don't take me long, and if I have plenty of time, then the odds are very, very high I will abandon offhand for some sort of a rest (trees or knees).

Fourth, you have bumped into a group of Western hunters that do see it differently than you and apparently that comes as a surprise, especially perhaps since the West isn't big tree stand country. That happens, listen, take it for what it's worth, file it away (or not) and move on. It don't make it right or wrong. Just different.

Stubblejumper is right, it is all a compromise. Neither camp has all the advantages. There are benefits that accrue to both extremes. There are disadvantages that accrue to both extremes. There are even pro's and con's in the middle! A heavy sporter does NOT have a bull barrel (You're getting carried away there). For me 2-3 pounds extra in a rifle is nothing versus the benefits that I personally get from it.For myself and several others here, the point-set-hang-fire "feel"of a heavier rifle is heartwarming.

I've had all sorts of folks in elk camp, some durable, some not so durable, and have found myself with their rifle slung over myheador strapped to my pack while they walked behind tuckered out, my "overweight" rifle slung or in my free hand plus I was leading the packhorse and thenwhacked game on the way out. Whatever your needs are, go for it --- HOWEVER, know that cuts both ways.

Reminder:Got mags that are light like you describeAND mags that are heavier like I prefer. My heavier onesare my long standing game killers of choice. Mylight weight plastic Sako 338 generally gets used by my weight sensitive/recoil INsensitive/rarely-practices-with-itson (nothing much gets by him either). So he would like your style of rifle. OTHERs don't.I anticipate that I will "come around" to his/your view in later years (no, that doesn't say its an old man's gun, refer to my sons preference).

Nuts and other labels don't have anything to do with it.
I'm just relieved to see a "which 300 mag for elk?" discussion.
Refreshing.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I probably am Nutz but liking heavy rifles is one of the lesser reasons that I may be considered so.:DI do 99 percent of my hunting from ambush spots. My shots come from pre-determined spots and I have plenty of time to prepare for the shot and rig up a rest. Getting to that spot usually involves horseback or some other means of transporting my gear. I am no longer able to climb mountains or hike miles across country so the weight of a rifle is of no concern. But for shooting, the heavier the rifle, the better I like it. Steady and more comfortable to shoot. Also quicker to recover from the recoil to see the results of the shot. But hey thats just my way of hunting and there was a time when ultra lite rifles were my passion. I also like the longer barrels. Same reason.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

I too like this discussion and think we have made points on both sides of this. If I didnt have a 300Wby it prob would the WSM for me since Im a big fan of the short actions. When I deer hunt in WV its mainly alot of walking up and down the ridges(I cant call em mountains compared to what you guys haveout west)so I like to carry as little weight as possible. I know thats not exactly the same as elk out west but anything that has alot of walking especially up and down isnt that much different on the legs.

One other thing though when I say lighter guns, I dont mean plastic stocks. That is one thing I'll never be a fan of.

Jamesyour not nutz, just old(just kiddin) but I can see why the lighter rifle doesnt matter much to you. Maybe when recoil is an issue for me I will see things more the other way. As for now I use my pads on the bench and dont pull the trigger enough in the field for it to be an issue.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

.300 Winchester "Long" Magnum:D

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

Duck I hunt the same way as you. Generally stand day 1 and shoe leather city the other 12 days. Often times leaving at first shooting light and getting back after dark. When I am slipping the briars and logged areas (my hunting area is Wetzel County coastallumber property) I prefer the heavier gun due to being able to hold steadier trying to keyhole shots thru small holes. Weight doesnt bother me but some it does. I mt bike race and run year round so I always run out of light before I run out of go so that may be part of it. I am recoil shy anyways so weight helps with that also.

Im like James...my weight of guns is the least of the reasons I been called nutz :D

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

300 WM is my choice. Easy to get ammo everywere, and likes all kinds of bullets.

RE: .300 WM Or .300WSM
 

i just used my new model 70 300 wsm this year for deer and loved it. i do all my own loading so buying cartridges is not an issue. i dont load any bullets bigger than 180 grains right now but i might experiment this summer. all in all im very satisfied with my purchase