300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

I want to buy a new longer-range rifle for a futureelk/mule deer hunt in CO., as well as to use here in PA for deer out to approx. 800 yds.
I was considering the 7mm Ultra Mag, the 300 Ultra Mag or the 300 Win. Mag. Any thoughts???

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

If you have never owned a 300win mag or WSM, I suggest you start there. Its a big just from a 270 to 300RUM or 300Weatherby. I like the WSM's. I have had a bunch of RUM's. I have burned up out the throats out of a few under 1000 rounds in one. I have had a hard time getting WSM's to shoot bad. Recoil is very slight.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

When you refer to the RUM's, is that Remington's short action or the big boys (which is what i was considering)?

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

RUM=Remington Ultra Mag, not SARUM.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

I would say if you have never owned a bigger magnum start with the 300 win or the wsm cause the recoil is alot more on the ultra mag When I first got my 300rum I couldn't beilevethe difference. And when I used the 300 rum for deer and you get a little to close to the shoulder their is alot of meat loss.As far as the 800 yard shot thats along ways to be trying to shoot and kill something efficently not saying you couldnt dont know your experiance but if you can go for it go to www.longrangehunting.com they will help you with that advice. I think all the calibers mentioned will shoot that far cause I was reading a post were a guy shot a elk at 946 yards with the 300 win mag. I wouldnt try that shot to many variables and i like to actualy hunt and stalk not just shoot a half a mile

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

300 Win Mag took an Elk 946 yards! Anyone have any idea what the hold over would be if it was sighted in zero at 200 yards, or 300 yards for that matter? I imagine something like 15 feet! lol.

Tom

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

He said 18.50 minutes and with only a 2mph wind at that far you have to adjust a whole minute

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Well I tried to hold my fingers on this one but since
others bring it up:
800 yards is nearly 1/2 mile. I'm sorry but barring
an expertly trained (which by asking these type
questions I assume not) marksman this is not a
shot to try. (notice, I did not say it was unethical).
Shoot what you want but don't rule out using your
boots and get closer. I understand there are all kinds
of "special circumstances" but for the normal person
this is too far.
Just my opinion.

God bless
PK

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Bighorn,

Please educate me. What does 18.5 minutes mean?

Thanks
Tom

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

moa or minute of angle equals about an inch every 100 yards so it wouldbe about 9.5inches at 946 yards most scopes each click equals 1/4moa some an 1/8. so roughly your drop would be 175.75 inches someone correct me if i'm wrong

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

I understand this part but how do you relate minutesto a target that is 900+ yards away?

Thanks

Tom

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Multiply by 9.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Don't know yet about shooting 900yds but what I can say what my GAP 300 wm tactical will do out to 700yds 80 deg,
100 yd zero
from 100 to 300 yd drop is 8 1/2 in
from 300 to 600 yd is 48 1/2 in
from 600 to 700 yd is 24 in (3 1/4" 5rd group at 700yd) TOTAL 79" drop
Black Hills 190gr BTHP
Rem 700 action
Mike Rock 1/10 26" barrel, #7 contour

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

According to the Remington Balistic calculator, a 300 win mag shooting the 180 gr scirocco, zeroed at 200 yards will drop 209.61" at 900 yards. And it will have 945 ft-lbs of energy left at that distance.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

That sounds about right!

Tom

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

I don't recommend shooting that far but a 7mm Reming Magnum might be better than 300WM becuase of the bullets effiency.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Thanks everyone for the input. Let me clarify something from the initial post. At the club I belong to, we have a range that goes out to 800 yds. The range is also a spot that the deer like to cross and feed along. The hillside shooting situations (whichis of more interest to me)is probably closer to 500 yds. max. Any shooting at the 700-800 range willmore than likely be target only. I DO NOT take shots at gameunless I feel confident/comfortable w/ making a clean kill.
I am leaning towards the 300 Win. mag., and to keep costs down, I may opt for that barrel for my Encore w/ a Leupold 4.5-14 w/ B/C reticle.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

As I said in another thread, the .300rum is an excellent elk killer at 700 yards and beyond. Some of the admirable guys at some of the longrange hunting/shooting forums are getting elk at 1,500 yards with a .338 Lapua mag and even at that yardage, they are delivering 800 or so ft lbs, crashing thru any bone and dropping them.

Ive gotten two past 700 yards with my .300rum and Im still amazed at how potent it is.

I havent messed with a 7mm rum, but from the ballistics I just checked, its right there with the .300winmag. The only holding it back is the choice of factory ammo, and the weights of bullets isnt very heavy. If you reload, that problem goes away. Both offer great B.C. so shoot what youre comfortable with. At the end of the day, thats all that matters.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

I love long range shooting, its the most absolute rewarding accomplishment of a person's ability with the knowledge and skill coming together. So that being said I'll break it down in to reality. I have a 300win mag that shoots a 165gr boattail bullet at 3200fps. Even with the velocity it should drop 24 feet at a 1000yds. Have i ever tested on paper no. I have tested it out in the field and as near as i can guess the drop seems close. Can you hit a deer everytime you pull the trigger with your regular hunting rifle at those distances? I would say very few can if at all without a special compensation scope and loading match type ammo.

Most people claim they can hit game at long ranges. I say most have gotten lucky once or twice. I myself limit the range around 500yds to 550yds and in that 50yds is enough to miss at the distance drop is almost doubled every 100yds. If you can keep 3 out of 3 bullets in a 12 inch circle then you have found your max range. Shooting beyond that mark shows lack of respect for the animal. Once you pass the 400yd mark it would be best to have range finder to maximize your shooting ability. No amount of powder or case size will help you shoot better. They shoot a 1000yds at the national matches and do it well and they're using 308's. A well placed shot will always overcome power.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

If I were to attempt any truely long range shooting it would be done with one of the .338 caliber super magnums such as the .338 Lapua, .338 Lapua imp, or .338 RUM.

The match grade .338 bullet will yield higher ballistic coefficients that either the 7mm or the .308 diameter bullets and are obviously available in heavier weights. Both of these add up to more retained velocity and energy at all distances, less drop at any given distance and less wind drift at any given distance.

Any of the listed cartridges will prople a 250 grain bullet at or in excess of 3000 fps if hand loaded. Which you would want to do to tweak out the most accuracy from your rifle.


However after saying all this I refer back to Black elk's statement in that all the power in the world will not make up for bad shooting skills. It is up to the shooter to get good with his/ her equipment and posess the skills necessary to make a clean 800 yard shot on an animal.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Its a little funny that many of the people that talk about shooting that far and the low remaining energy will tell you that the 270 won't kill elk at 250 yards.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Which guy on here would say that james?

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Who would say that? If someone comes in here and publicly says that, they need a good lecture. They may not care for a .270 but its more than adequate and has been used on elk forever. Most factory 150 grain .270 rounds would have 1800 to 1900 ft lbs at 250 yards, thats plenty.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Why would you want to attempt to make an 800 yard shot anyways. You show me what 2 inches looks like at 800 yards, then show me what180 inches looks like at 800 yards, then show me what a deer looks like at 800 yards and show me how different a deer looks at 800 yards from a human...then tell me which mountain you are hunting at so i can get the hell out of there as fast as I can just in case you cant judge the inches from that distance....

BYE THE WAY, IM LOOKING TO BUY A GUN THAT I CAN SHOOT AN ANTELOPE AT 20,000 YARDS AWAY CAN YA TELL ME WHAT GUN I SHOULD BUY?

A 270 CAN KILL AN ELK FOR GOD SAKE...WHY DONT YOU DO ALL THE OTHER HUNTERS IN YOUR AREA A FAVOR AND TRY TO GET WITHIN RANGE OF THE GAME YOU ARE HUNTING...I DONT LIKE TO THINK ABOUT HUNTING IN AN AREA WHERE "SOMEONE"IS TAKING A POINT OF AIM ALMOST 15 FEET ABOVE AN ANIMAL THAT I MIGHT BE STANDING BETWEEN BEHIND OR BESIDE IT.

ALSO REMEMBER...PEOPLE DO KILL ANIMALS WITH BOWS YA KNOW...ESPECIALLY AT 800 +++++ YARDS AWAY.:D:D:D

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Scratch all of the above.

Want the flattest fastest shooting gun? Weatherby 30-378. Thats the ticket. A little pricey, but very effective. I love shooting TARGETS at 600-800 yards. I won't shoot game that far but pumpkins explode. I am starting to reload for it and the groups are getting tighter and tighter.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Easy killer, your in the wrong forum. This is a shooting forum, not a hunting forum. Go up a few to rant and rave. We shoot long range here because we love it. Deosn't have to be game.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Sorry big country, I would like to appoligize, I was a bit outta line here. But the point I am making is....There still are alot of people out there that wonder which gun they can use to "hunt game" at distances "that are a joke" in my opinion. ( THIS POST THAT I AM WRITING IS NOT FOR LONG RANGE SHOOTERS, BUT FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO ATTEMPT A HAIL MARRY OUT IN THE FEILD)I read in an outdoor life magazinethat a guy had taken elkwitha .270, .280, 25-06, 30-06, and a 300 win magall withina few feet less than 800 yards. ( THESE ARE THE ARTICLES THAT MAKE A NEW HUNTERTHINK HE CAN DO IT TOO)I forgot the exact distances for each shot, but all were over 780 yards. It was at that point that I went to 4 different ballistic charts just to see if I had read something wrong about bullet trajectory before. Once again I found that all of those rounds that he had mentioned had a bullet drop between 18-38 inches at 400 yards. which led me to assume the drop would be far more dramatic at 800 yards.
Now putting all this aside, I am aware that there is such things as Creedmore matches where men and women shoot at targets 1000 meters away with bullets of around 40 caliber or larger. The targets measure 72"X72".And I also know that some use the 47-70 gov. which has about a 115-135 inch drop at 400 yards, far more than the .270,.280, 25-06, 30-06, and the 300 win mag. (So I understand that a 1000 meter shot is not impossible to make.) I know people make those shots at the range all the time. But I also know that sometimes when people shoot at creedmore matches they are not even hitting the target which is 6 foot across X 6 foot high. ( and ill guess these shooters are not green to the sport of shooting either)These misses are due to the fact of many variables that canoccur overlong distances (and these people adjust to the variables) One major variable being the wind.... For instance, at 1000 yards if the wind is blowing 5 mph....your bullet drift will be 74.44" off from your intended target. Also at 1000 yards every mph increase in velocity of the wind, deflects the bullet 15 more inches. so it looks like this





— Caliber = .45-90


— Velocity = 1,300 feet per second


— Distance = 1,000 yards


— Ballistic Coefficient = .400

[align=left]



Wind Drift or Deflection





5 MPH
10 MPH
15 MPH
20 MPH

74.44”
148.89”
223.38”
297.93”[/align]this is the site I got this info from...it is actually a good site for long range shooters. http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Accuracy.htm

I also understand that wind probally just doesn't occur at matches or at the range, but also out in the feild when you are hunting. So lets estimate what a 5 mph wind would blow your bullet offcourseat 800 yards.....it would be around only 60 inches, If you do the math. And thats just for a 5 mph wind. If you know your ballistics and your gun and can tackle those ajustments, go ahead. (This is fine for the range.) But not for the feild. The reason I say this is because any ajustment that you make at 800 yards will be dramatic, whether itsa wind ajustmentorthe trajectory of your bullet drop from gravity over 800 yards. It will still bedramatic. I have never seen an animal with a 60 inch vital zone, soif my ajustments were off, I would haveroom for error. I cant take that chance.... ifsomeone thinks they can do that go ahead.:) Wound the animal and be unethical.
Keep in mind when i baught my 30-06 about 9 years ago I asked the gentleman behind the counter..." So I can shoot deer 300 yards away with this gun?" and he said " Why cant you, there are people that shoot 1000 yards at creedmoore matches with their guns." Now being a new shooter at the time, Im glad I didn't take his advice because it almost sounded like he was claiming that I could make much longer shots than what my first enquirey was. Many of my freinds that are newto hunting always ask me how far they can shoot. Then they tell me that some guy told them that they can kill animals a half a mile away!!!;)One friend of mine purchased a 300 win mag 4 years ago with the hopes that he could kill an animal 1000 yards away ( because MANY people told him that this was possible) He asked me to go to the range with him, and I did. For 3 years hetried sighting in that 300 win mag and never could get better than 8 inch groups at 100 yards. He changed the scope 3 times and did many things to improve his accuracy. As a matter of factI remember one time going with him,and the first shot hit the dirt 35 yards in front of us and the second shot hit a branch in the poplar tree. I could see that he was flinching horrible:D:D:D. And what was going through my mind at the time was, if he can't barely make paper at 100 yards, then how will he hit a taget at 1000 yards. He was so upset at the gun that he just GAVE IT TO ME... and I think this is very funny. Most people that are green can't hold a gun (with significant recoil)steady enough to make good groups at 100 -200 yards. And this is what scares me. I have heard "countless" and I do mean countless people make claims that their rifle can kill deer 1000 yards away, but when i see them at the range, I notice that my groups are better than theirs WITH MY SHOT GUN:):):).

I think shooting long distance is a wonderful sport and should be done more often, but I also think anyone that claims he can ( or even goes out to attempt) tokill an animal at those distances is foolish. plain and simple as that. Too many factors invloved to make a mistake. Either by not making a clean kill, or missing totally and hurting some one else.

by the way, whatsthe energy that is left in a 270 , 280, 25-06,30-06 300 win magto be able to kill an elk ethically and effectively at 800 yards?

doesnt sound too effective or ethical to me. sounds like taking a winchester 25-20 and making a 300 yard shot to me...it would be just about the same.[&o][&o][&o]Very sad .

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

I swear, I cannot go on a thread where someone wants to shoot game long range and read a book on how "you're not good enough to shoot that long" or "you shouldn't be shooting that far" or something of the sort. "I can do this with my gun" and"I can do that" or"you shouldn't do this" or "you shouldn't do that". Give it a rest. Just enjoy the website and help out another member when you can.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

If you decide on a 300 RUM.....

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1405394

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Hey haugena , I really must say that I like your feedback to my "book" that I wrote up above. I guess I cant give it a rest until people like my fatherare ablesit up in a 20 foot tree stand without two shots going over his head or until I can stop shooting deer that walk by my stand with blown off leg or gut shot. I guess situations like these still prove that hunters have a responsibilty for safety (remember what they taught you when you tooka hunting course?) They also share in the responsibility of making clean kills so an animal doesnt have to suffer either.

ya know, I dont mind helping people out in here at all, but maybe my "book" as you call it, might help alot of hunters out there that are not going to ever attempt an 800 yard shot, but these are people that might be hunting in the same area as someone that ventures out to make 800 yards shots. Thats because maybe if someone that is about to attemp that kind of shot and doesnt know what hes doing, might actually read my post "which I just like you are free to put up." Dont you think that if someone had a question about taking an 800 yard shot and never attempted it before that my "book" could have helped them out? Notice I even put up a website to help long range shooters didnt I?
http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Accuracy.htm <<<<<< :eek:

I didnt put that up to bitch did I...But I will say this, If my safety is concerned, I might try to help someone out the best I can so I can still be safe. Is this that big of a deal?

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

Accidents happen in the field when shooting at game. Call it poor shot selection, buck fever, or whatever, they happen. An animal gets a gut shot, its unfortunate but it does happen, a thread on huntingnet is not going to change that. Your posts have some good info, especially the website, but this is not the place to take out aggression on members for some cowboy shooting over your dad's head as it finally came out in your last post. This isn't the place for it.

RE: 300 ultra , 300 win. or 7mm ultra ??
 

wo-wo-wo...chill brother...im not mad...I just thaught I did make some good points about safety and peoples responsibility...I didnt claim my post would save the world either. I see that you do alot of longrange shooting and I respect that. I see where you said that you would never make shots at animals at the ranges that you practice at either. So I know that you show responsibility and are a good hunter too... I just dont know why you think that I was mad at people on here. Im not...I dont want it to sound like that. If it did im sorry. what has happened with my dad is the past...and its over with.....so im not still mad. I just felt I had some very good points about taking foolish shots at wild game thats all...I aint calling you wrong.

i understand where you are coming from:)cheer up brother