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Cold bore shot opinions needed!
I need some advice please! I have a Ruger MK 11 in 25-06and the first round out of cold barrel always lands 4 inches high and about 5 inches left then from the second shot on it hits right on target. What to do this is a problem for hunting as I cant get the animals to stand still while I fire one off to warm up barrel!
but the first round is not always consistant next time it could vary by a inch or two. should I just by a new rifle? Don |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
Are you talking the first round out of a cold barrel or the first round out of a clean barrel?Does it matter if the barrel is clean or if it is fouled?
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
Gene,
You will be hunting with a cold barrel. No way around it. Next time at the range shoot your first shot, wait 10 minutes to let your barreltotally cool.aim at the same spot you aimed for the first shot. Most likely you will hit near the first shot with the cold barrel. If so, this is your new 0 and adjust your sights |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
I've noticed that some guns act differently than others in this regard. I have had many rifles put the first shot from a CLEAN barrel a bit away from the group until after the barrel was fouled. It then would group as expected. Try leaving the barrel fouled, let the gun assume ambient temp., and try it again. If it groups to your expectations, then the answer is to leave the barrel fouled until your hunt is finished. If it continues to act as before, then perhaps some of the others on here will be able to help. ( I'd like to see an answer to this myself.)
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
No not a clean barrel. A cold one. I've let it cool for 20 min. and no differance! It seems to need a hour or more on a 75 degree day with bolt open. Also target with heavy barrel and 20-30 thousands between stock and barrel.
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
Is your action bedded? Action bolts tight? Scope mounts/rings tight?
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
No it's just as is from factory. after first shot it will group under2 inches all day long with the rounds I hunt with.
ORIGINAL: Ought Six Is your action bedded? Action bolts tight? Scope mounts/rings tight? |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
have your barrel cryogenically heat treated to take out any impurities... I know someone that had this done on their 243 and it is like a new rifle
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
Before Cryo Freezing, you might try free floating the barrel. I would bed the action and the first inch of the barrel - remove wood until you can slip a piece of paper easily between the barrel and forearm. If that doesn't do it, freeze it. If that doesn't do it, sell it.
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
From my limited experience it's common to have the POI stray as the barrel heats up. In my guns, I can usually get a good group with three consecutive shots, but they seem to stray quite a bit after 3 or 4. For hunting it's just fine.
It seems like your's is taking this to the extreme. I'd consult a good trusted gun smith and consider free floating, and/or bedding depending on what he thinks is going on. Also, if that first shot is through an oiled barrel, it always makes a significant POI difference from the next shot, cold or warm, in my experience. I never oil my barrel except for storage. Then when I shoot it next, I run a dry bore snake through it and also shoot a "fouling shot" before I check grouping. |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
Also target with heavy barrel and 20-30 thousands between stock and barrel. |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
Yes stubblejumper it is but it seems you are the only one that reads all the post's before answering.
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
lol
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
Beautiful gun that doesn't shoot the way its should for no apparent reason? Sounds like aRuger. Was going to pick one up myself this past weekend in 30-06 ss with a laminate stock on sale at Gander MT, beautiful gun, but then noticed that I could fit a quarter between the barrel and stock on the right side and had them both touching on the left(one of the few times I could notice a problem up front with a ruger, got 3 other rugers). Good looking guns, from their single action revolvers all the way up the lineto the mini 14s, model 1and 77/Mk11, but always a crap shoot as tohow each individual Ruger gun will perform with no rhyme or reason to explain it most of the time and the cost to correct far too prohibitive. My guess is you'll never get that gun to shoot right and you'll never know exactly why either. take care and hope you find a cheap fix.
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
ok, everyone else has thrown in all the suggestions I was going to say......so I am thinking outside the box here and throwing something else out. Heat from 1st shot to 2nd shouldnt affect anything, maybe 4th, 5th or 6th but not from #1 to #2. However I had a problem where one of my scopes was mounted too close to the barrel. I had the wrong rings. At ambient temp you could see light (barely) between the scope and barrel, but after the first shot it closed up. Im just throwing a different suggestion in the mix. Could the scope be being touched and moved up by the barrel??
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
I love to get my hands on guns like this....If I'm reading everything properly...This gun is grouping 2 inches at 100 yards...Its a heavy barrel Ruger thats been free floated in 25-06??? That thing ought to do under an inch at 100 yards....
1) I can't remember if that model is factory free-floated or not...I would check to see that the barrel is not touching the stock in any point...I would also loosen the bedding screws....and tighten the front one good and tight...while having your thumb on the tang....then tighten the tang screw...the tang shouldn't move after the front screw is tightened...in other words the action shouldn't pivot or "rock" in the stock...if bedded properly....This is why we glass bed or piller bed stocks...to give the barrel a good platform....If you do have this pivot....it needs to be corrected... 2) Check all the scope screws...this is what is nice about Rugers...they can all be tightened without taking off the scope... 3) Clean the barrel...get all the copper out...I like Sweets...Outers doesn't get it done...Make sure you remove the bolt and clean from the breech... 4)Assuming you are shooting factory loads...Get at least 3 different loads... I have seen guns shoot 3-4 inch groups with one brand and 1 1/4 with another... 5) Get a good shooting bench, sand bags (a bag of corn works ok) rifle rest ..etc...too many guys expect 3/4 inch groups shooting off the hood of their truck... 6)If it is still not grouping...check the scope by either replacing with a known good one...or shooting a square... 7)If you do have to bed this gun...replace the trigger...with Timney etc... |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
I am shooting federals with nosler partitions they group shots 2,3 and four at about 2 inches at ahundred. winchesters and remington factory loads group half of that. the barrel is factory floated but I removed a little more from stock. the scope is a nikon monarch and have checked all screws for tightness and has a good 1/8 betweenobjective and barrel. bolt and receiver feel tight! receiver screw is tight. I just ordered some buches bore cleaner and new rod and brush, Yes I have been useing a cheep (Walmart)solvent! As I live in a small town. I'm having this problem at local range off sand bags and use this same setup with my costom built .17 hmr that shootsscary small groups. I s it possible going back to rem's or win's could make this problem go away?
ORIGINAL: nchawkeye I love to get my hands on guns like this....If I'm reading everything properly...This gun is grouping 2 inches at 100 yards...Its a heavy barrel Ruger thats been free floated in 25-06??? That thing ought to do under an inch at 100 yards.... 1) I can't remember if that model is factory free-floated or not...I would check to see that the barrel is not touching the stock in any point...I would also loosen the bedding screws....and tighten the front one good and tight...while having your thumb on the tang....then tighten the tang screw...the tang shouldn't move after the front screw is tightened...in other words the action shouldn't pivot or "rock" in the stock...if bedded properly....This is why we glass bed or piller bed stocks...to give the barrel a good platform....If you do have this pivot....it needs to be corrected... 2) Check all the scope screws...this is what is nice about Rugers...they can all be tightened without taking off the scope... 3) Clean the barrel...get all the copper out...I like Sweets...Outers doesn't get it done...Make sure you remove the bolt and clean from the breech... 4)Assuming you are shooting factory loads...Get at least 3 different loads... I have seen guns shoot 3-4 inch groups with one brand and 1 1/4 with another... 5) Get a good shooting bench, sand bags (a bag of corn works ok) rifle rest ..etc...too many guys expect 3/4 inch groups shooting off the hood of their truck... 6)If it is still not grouping...check the scope by either replacing with a known good one...or shooting a square... 7)If you do have to bed this gun...replace the trigger...with Timney etc... |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
If you can cut your group in half...from 2 inches to 1 inch...I would use the Remingtons or the Winchesters...I would double check the barrel channel...after it was free floated did you treat the stock with poly or another sealent??? If that still looks good...I bet its in the bedding...If this gun will shoot a 1-1 1/2 inch group after the 1st shot...that should eliminate the scope/screws/rings etc...gotta be in the bedding of the action/barrel...
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RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
ORIGINAL: gene62 I am shooting federals with nosler partitions they group shots 2,3 and four at about 2 inches at ahundred. winchesters and remington factory loads group half of that. But that still doesn't address the huge discrepancy between your first shot and second. That isn't a group size issue, imho. |
RE: Cold bore shot opinions needed!
The corelokts. and the cheep Win. superX's
ORIGINAL: zekeskar Boy, if it were me, I'd shoot whatever factory ammo gave me the best group. When you say remington factory ammo are you just talking about corelokts? bullet. But that still doesn't address the huge discrepancy between your first shot and second. That isn't a group size issue, imho. |
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