223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

If any of you are familiar with cartridge sales, I am wondering if any one cartridge is outselling the others.

I admit that I am enormously curious about these stubbies from an accuracy standpoint, but I have not yet stepped up to buy one.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

They have not really caught on here where I live. At least nothing like the 270 and 300 WSM's. I think the popularity of the 243 and the cheap ammo and components for the standard 223 have kept the new ones from taking off. Also the 22-250 has been popular here for many years and has not lost ground as yet to the stuuy ones. There are a few 25 WSM's here but nowhere near the numbers of the 25-06 and rightly so IMO.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

As an employee of bass pro shops, I work the gun counter in the hunting dept. at the Dania Beach, FL. store. It seems to be of general consensus of myself and the rest of the gun counteremployees (don't take that worth very much)that in 5 to 10 years, the 223, 243, and maybe even the 25 WSSM are going to be gone. They were created to fill a gap that really wasn't there, and it's kind of like a trend, I think it will come and go. The 223 and 243, who wants to go to a WSSM case and spend 18 dollars for a box of shells(the cheapest we normally stock I might add)when they could use a regular 223 or 243@ $4.00 a box? To me the ballistics are great, but it isn't practical enough to integrate into the mainstream market over a long period of time. The 25 might stick around, might not, I am not sure on that one. Of all the WSSM guns that I have sold, I would say the 25 makes up about 50%. In reguards to WSM calibers,The 300 WSM is far and away the most popular and I would think is here to stay, the 270 WSM is anybody's guess, I wouldn't be totally shocked to see it go away one day. The 7mm WSM, its on borrowed time to me already, I would be vary weary of buying a gun chambered for that round unless I planned to get into reloading down the road, it is already kind of fading away down here.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

I agree, the 223 and 243 probabl won't stick around, unless something miraculous happens, but the 25 wssm sounds like a winner.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Yeah, IMO opionion, i would never buy a .243 WSSM over the standard .243..i could go buy almost 5 boxes of standard .243 for the price of a box of wsm, these smaller caliber WSSM's i wouldnt go with. I would stick to the regular caliber....BUT the WSM's in .270 and .300 i would take into consideration when buying a rifle. I have shot the .270WSM and its accuracy was amazing and the recoils not much more than a standard .270. Not to mention a shorter action. Just my two cents worth.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

the nice thing about the 25 wssm though, is that it drops 2 action sizes, from the 25-06 length action (long) to a super short

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Two action sizes, wow! Gee, that long action Savage I've got, scoped and all, weighs less than 7 pounds all up. If I can't carry that, and work the long bolt throw, I'd be in real trouble! The whole SA/LA thing is just BS. Who cares? Plenty of critters have been killed without the "advantages" such as they are, of a shorter action than the other guy's rifles. Don't mean a thing, shoot straight, all you need is one shot, no bolt throw problem! The WSSMs will die an unglorious, well deserved death, and my old .25/06 will be there to see it.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

the difference between short and long actions is not BS. If someone wants a shorter action and consequently usually lighter gun and supposedly more accurate due to stiffer action, then why not? those that are soooo opposed to new cartridges and guns are usually just mad cause they can't afford to buy a new gun. theres nothing wrong with a big selection of guns and ammo so everyone gets exactly what they want. if people stopped developing new guns, then we would still be shooting flintlocks...and they only have one shot and NO bolt throw so no problem right? only need one shot

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

UThunter..i think you hit that one just right.....to each man his own right? if noone developed anything new...nobody would have no selection.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

I can't believe folks on this forum are predicting the 243 is not going to be around. This is ludricous. The 243 will be here as long as the 30'06....what are you people basing this on???? Am I missing something here? My gosh, David Tubb just won the Camp Perry National Match with a 243 varient...get real...the 243 is here to stay! Regards, Rick.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

A .243 is NOT a .243 WSSM. As far as new stuff, I jumped on the .17 HMR bandwagon and own two .204s, howzat for "new"?. What I object to, are the companies that bring out this crap, stopping production of the "normal" stuff, in order to force us to buy something that has very dubious improvements, like Winchester has done last year. NO Model 70 Sporters in .270 Winchester? just to sell .270 WSMs? If it were that much better than the old stuff, why wouldn't it sell on it's own merits? Put 'em side by side, and let the market decide.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Believe me, I don't disagree that there are differences that people might appreciate between the various cartridges, and I could care less if someone enjoys the very subtle differences and buys the gun that they want. Believe me again, I have hobbies with gear that some would say is redundant, but I like because of subtle differences (and have just because I can afford it!) But to say people are opposed to new cartridges just because they can't afford them is just arrogant BS. Maybe we don't like them because _for us_ they don't represent any practical, in the field (or maybe even at the range) difference from what we already have, or what has been available for decades already. I could afford several more rifles and shotguns, but only own the ones that actually deliver what I need. Each gun I own has one or more very acceptable alternatives, but the alternatives aren't different in any meaningful way, and I don't CHOOSE to spend my money that way.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

48th guns....I said that the .243 would be around ..but the .243 WSSM would not however..you got things mixed up/...actually..or i missed someone else say it...but i deffinently did not

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

YOu jumped in the conversation wrongly. I said that people who oppose these cartridges and many others so strongly, often can't afford them, and i stick by that. It wasn't that he said oh i just prefer my long action 25/06. He was knocking wssms and wrongly stating that the difference between long and short and supershort actions were BS. the difference can be measured in quantatitive terms, so there is no way to dispute that. add that to many persuasive and probably correct conclusions of stiffer actions=better accuracy and shorter actions have less elasticity exactly because of, and directly coorilated to their short length. When someone presents no facts, and tells something like it is a fact instead of his opinion or own idea, that is BS.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Damned right I knocked them. The .25 is the only WSSM that makes any sense at all, and the feeding geometry is all wrong to make them work smoothly. My main experience with them is with a Stealth II a buddy of mine bought in .223 WSSM. Since day one, it's been a POS. No groups under 5" when brand new, and now it won't even hit paper at 100 yards, the owner is scrupulous about keeping it clean, and careful with his handloads, too, but even factory ammo is horrible in the thing. He's swapped scopes, checked mounts, checked the crown, all the normal things you do when a rifle won't shoot, it's a POS. I can, and do, own several rifles, some bought just this year. I tend to pick practical, well designed cartridges that common sense and good taste dictate work well. The WSSMs don't and won't qualify, ever.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

As far as elasticity, etc, in long actions, do you think any deer on four hooves can tell the difference between getting hit with a long action cartridge or a short one? You're from Utah, right? Work for Winchester,do ya? Get real.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Short and long actions and their size and weight differences have nothing to do with what's being shot. It is a user preference for bolt throw, weight, and accuracy. YOu can be ignorant all day long, but do it somewhere else, and stop wasting our time with your opinions you call facts.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Still haven't learned how to read between the lines of what you've seen in the "grocery store gun magazines" have you? Check out the problems endemic to all the WSSMs in The Varmint Hunter Magazine. The gunwriter is trying like hell to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but anyone with an eye towards truth can read it. For free rifles, they'll sell their souls, and sucker unsuspecting rubes. As a practical matter, in any hunting rifle, action length just doesn't matter. We're not talking benchrest here, this is a hunting board, right? Your reality check has bounced again.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

YOu're a joke, hunting rifles are where the shorter actions shine, allowing a shorter rifle because of the action length and barrel length. These shorter cartridges can better utilize a shorter barrel. Both of those add up to significant weight loss.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

If a half pound of weight ruins a hunt for you, you're too out of shape to hunt, anyway. Take a pill, pal.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

You don't get it. If you are trying to get your rifle weight down, a half pound isn't a small amount. And i don't even care, it's not me i'm defending. I can say, without even knowing you, that i am in better shape than you. Forget it, just use what you want, and let others use what they want. No one's trying to tell you that you have to use the wsm or wssms, just don't knock it if you don't have solid facts.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Solid facts I have aplenty. I also have a healthy amount of common sense and experience. Theory is all well and good, but theory doesn't kill stuff. You seem to have taken these cartridges at face value, instead of looking seriously and skeptically at their utility. I guess common sense isn't so common any more.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

I've got a Win Super Shadow 25 WSSM. It's not my go to, yet, but may end that way. It's light, shoots better than I do, cycles smoothly without issue, has less felt recoil (to me) than my .25-06 and is downright fun. I think it's an ideal varmint/deer duo round.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

I was leary about jumping on the WSM or WSSM bandwagon as well. But, after having a buddy buy a 270 WSM and another one bought a 300WSM, I sure would like to have a shorter action than my current 7mm Rem Mag has, I'd really love to lose the 26" barrel as well. The day Tikka comes out with a 7mm WSM, I will buy one in a heartbeat. As for them going to the wayside, who cares, I pack my own loads :D

To all you guys with the 25WSSM, lets hear the pros and cons, I'd really like one of these as well.....

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Well I don't know all the statistics...Just wish they start making the old 16 guage again...very fun gun...

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

This is my first post....so hello everyone....

I thought I would bring this posting back to life and see what more recent oppinions are surrounding the WSSM's.

I am wondering if anyone knows how WSSM's are selling and which of the three is the most popular? Which one has the best chance of being around for a while.

I think the WSSM's have a lot of advantages, but the cost of ammo is the major drawback.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

The gun stores around here have the WSSM's for sale at deep discounts. The problem is that they don't really offer much that isn't already out there. The .223 offers .220 Swift velocities, which is good, but who cares about action length in a varmint round? The .243 WSSM's performanceis matched by the 6mm Remington,and almost equaled by the traditional .243. The .25WSSM does bring new performance to quarter bores that isn't equalled by any but the .25-06 (excluding the .257 Weatherby). It would appear to have the brightest future, but it is also plagued by the feeding problems.
Will

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

The WSSMs are the answer to a question that was never asked.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Will C....if there are deep discounts....tell me where you live...I will buy 2 dozen guns today!!!!

Around here, Colorado, the stores are getting retail for Model 70's in WSM's and WSSM's. Mainly because the New Haven plant closed last week.

I was in a Cabela's last week and the SAUM's were selling cheap, but not the WSSM's.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

I've shot a Browning composite stalker in 25WSSM, and it was a very nice rifle. My cousin was in the rifle market, and he liked the feel of my Browning, but wanted the performance of somthing more along the lines of my 25-06, so he got a 25WSSM. I hear all these people trashing them, but I kinda liked the little rifle. My cousin really likes it, and so do his brothers. Out of all the guns in their gun cabinet, this one spends the least amount of time there. I can attest when we sighted in his scope it was very accurate, and fed and functioned smoothly. It has not malfunctioned or misfed to my knowledge yet, and I'm pretty sure he'd be calling with questions if it did.

I hear a lot of bashing on the WSSMs, but it seems like most of it has been from non-owners. I plan on owning a WSM and WSSM one of these days, not sure which ones, but they are neat cartridges.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

I have an A-bolt in 270WSm and 243WSSmand really like both of them. I already had a 243 and 6mm and a 270win before I made these purchases. I have had nothing but good experiences with both guns they both shoot under 1" at 100yrds and havent jammed.

The only difference Ive seen with the Wssm is that the gun likes the cases to be full length re-sized before reloading. The gun shot the factory ammo (Win 100grn power pts and the 95 grn BT) under an inch also. I like the shorter lighter guns and enjoy the shorter actions over long actions in general.

Popularity of a caliber has nothing to do with how good it is (most times) if that were the case the 280s and 6mm's instead of 270's and 243 its got alot to do with marketing. IMO there never a niche that doesnt need filled. How could the 300wsm get so popular we didnt need another 300mag its huge now though.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

I had been considering purchasing a new Winchester Model 70 SS in 25 WSSM for quite some time before they announced they were closing their plant. After I heard the news I finally made the decision to purchase one, and was fortunate to get a good deal.

I have been preparing for an up comming hunt, and also working on another new gun, so I have not had a chance to shooot that gun at the range yet. However, I am looking forward to working on it over the next few months.

RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
 

Just my 2 cents worth but it seems to me that there are allot of new cartridges that are being created to fill a gap that doesn't really exist. Its all good I suppose...different strokes for different folks. In the end its all about marketing. New gun sales etc...