Do we overthink this stuff?
09-21-2005, 12:02 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Do we overthink this stuff?
I see alot of posts these days about killing power of this or that. Or that gun isn't powerful enough. Or that bullet isn't suitable.
But I killed two deer this last week with my bow. And shamefully, I made a horrible shot on a 7 point on Sat. So bad, that when I came back in tracking 2 hours later, he got up and ran. I tracked until I was dehydrated with three other guys and running out of daylight. Evenually found him 15 yards from where we quit in a thicket that was pure briars and snake ridden. Seems we pushed him all day. Bad news was the weather got up to 85F and only salvaged the rack.Didn't want to chance the meat,Really ashamed of myself. I shot on a walking target and he came close.
Anyway, if a 100gr thunderhead could kill with a right behind the lungs high shot, (worst shot I could get, that I am ashamed to say I did), then any gun would be overkill, wouldn't it?
I know its been beat to death, but talked to a neighbor that hunts withasemi 223. He's a goofball, thats for sure, but he hasn't lost the first deer withhis 223, but seemed to lose most of his deer with a bow. Many reasons I see for this, but besides thepoint. One, he only hunts evenings cause he don't like getting up early, and tracking is tough in dark, two, he takes long shots.
I don't know guys, I think we have all fellreal deep in this hobby to where we don't know the difference between need and think we need. I am probably the most guilty of them all.
But I killed two deer this last week with my bow. And shamefully, I made a horrible shot on a 7 point on Sat. So bad, that when I came back in tracking 2 hours later, he got up and ran. I tracked until I was dehydrated with three other guys and running out of daylight. Evenually found him 15 yards from where we quit in a thicket that was pure briars and snake ridden. Seems we pushed him all day. Bad news was the weather got up to 85F and only salvaged the rack.Didn't want to chance the meat,Really ashamed of myself. I shot on a walking target and he came close.
Anyway, if a 100gr thunderhead could kill with a right behind the lungs high shot, (worst shot I could get, that I am ashamed to say I did), then any gun would be overkill, wouldn't it?
I know its been beat to death, but talked to a neighbor that hunts withasemi 223. He's a goofball, thats for sure, but he hasn't lost the first deer withhis 223, but seemed to lose most of his deer with a bow. Many reasons I see for this, but besides thepoint. One, he only hunts evenings cause he don't like getting up early, and tracking is tough in dark, two, he takes long shots.
I don't know guys, I think we have all fellreal deep in this hobby to where we don't know the difference between need and think we need. I am probably the most guilty of them all.
09-21-2005, 12:15 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
this is true if we just thought about what bone and crooket used when they hunted sure they more then likely where big cal.s but over the past 200 yards we have made gun accurate fromw hen they where you might hit your target at 40 yards if it was as big as a barn but now you can hit a target from 40 yards thats the size of a milk jug
09-21-2005, 12:21 PM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 226
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
I think that we are ALL guilty of overthinking these matters - evidenced by the fact that the debate about suitable/ not suitable cartridges never subsides. Eventhough the evidence is clear to all that one does NOT neccessarily need a magnum, let alone even a certain favored cartridge as a minimum... yet some will insist that we do need such. Historically speaking, a great many cartridges will do the job. The lowly .30/30....widely understood as being the most popular deer-killer of all time...is pretty anemic by certain standards - yet is obviously very capable.
I must admit that I, in years past, was somewhat afflicted with the "numbers" disease...that a cartridge must produce a certain amount of impact energy, etc. Now, I am much more relaxed about it. I would not shoot deer with a .223 myself...but, if it's legal and works for your friend, so be it. I have never been a big "magnum guy" either (though I have owned a 7mm Mag.). Now, in my old age, I'd much prefer to get closer to the animal than trust my eyesight to make a long shot - as well, I am not thrilled with hard-recoiling rifles anymore. So, as my favorite cartridge is the old 8mm Mauser, I have morphed into a "slow and heavy" guy. It works for me, so I no longer sweat the details...in fact, I like it simple.
I wonder if AGE...and the maturity it brings, has more to do with that than anything else. Nothing like a little "mileage" to wear down some of that idealism, eh ?
I must admit that I, in years past, was somewhat afflicted with the "numbers" disease...that a cartridge must produce a certain amount of impact energy, etc. Now, I am much more relaxed about it. I would not shoot deer with a .223 myself...but, if it's legal and works for your friend, so be it. I have never been a big "magnum guy" either (though I have owned a 7mm Mag.). Now, in my old age, I'd much prefer to get closer to the animal than trust my eyesight to make a long shot - as well, I am not thrilled with hard-recoiling rifles anymore. So, as my favorite cartridge is the old 8mm Mauser, I have morphed into a "slow and heavy" guy. It works for me, so I no longer sweat the details...in fact, I like it simple.
I wonder if AGE...and the maturity it brings, has more to do with that than anything else. Nothing like a little "mileage" to wear down some of that idealism, eh ?
09-21-2005, 12:33 PM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
ORIGINAL: gorse
I think that we are ALL guilty of overthinking these matters - evidenced by the fact that the debate about suitable/ not suitable cartridges never subsides. Eventhough the evidence is clear to all that one does NOT neccessarily need a magnum, let alone even a certain favored cartridge as a minimum... yet some will insist that we do need such. Historically speaking, a great many cartridges will do the job. The lowly .30/30....widely understood as being the most popular deer-killer of all time...is pretty anemic by certain standards - yet is obviously very capable.
I must admit that I, in years past, was somewhat afflicted with the "numbers" disease...that a cartridge must produce a certain amount of impact energy, etc. Now, I am much more relaxed about it. I would not shoot deer with a .223 myself...but, if it's legal and works for your friend, so be it. I have never been a big "magnum guy" either (though I have owned a 7mm Mag.). Now, in my old age, I'd much prefer to get closer to the animal than trust my eyesight to make a long shot - as well, I am not thrilled with hard-recoiling rifles anymore. So, as my favorite cartridge is the old 8mm Mauser, I have morphed into a "slow and heavy" guy. It works for me, so I no longer sweat the details...in fact, I like it simple.
I wonder if AGE...and the maturity it brings, has more to do with that than anything else. Nothing like a little "mileage" to wear down some of that idealism, eh ?
I think that we are ALL guilty of overthinking these matters - evidenced by the fact that the debate about suitable/ not suitable cartridges never subsides. Eventhough the evidence is clear to all that one does NOT neccessarily need a magnum, let alone even a certain favored cartridge as a minimum... yet some will insist that we do need such. Historically speaking, a great many cartridges will do the job. The lowly .30/30....widely understood as being the most popular deer-killer of all time...is pretty anemic by certain standards - yet is obviously very capable.
I must admit that I, in years past, was somewhat afflicted with the "numbers" disease...that a cartridge must produce a certain amount of impact energy, etc. Now, I am much more relaxed about it. I would not shoot deer with a .223 myself...but, if it's legal and works for your friend, so be it. I have never been a big "magnum guy" either (though I have owned a 7mm Mag.). Now, in my old age, I'd much prefer to get closer to the animal than trust my eyesight to make a long shot - as well, I am not thrilled with hard-recoiling rifles anymore. So, as my favorite cartridge is the old 8mm Mauser, I have morphed into a "slow and heavy" guy. It works for me, so I no longer sweat the details...in fact, I like it simple.
I wonder if AGE...and the maturity it brings, has more to do with that than anything else. Nothing like a little "mileage" to wear down some of that idealism, eh ?
I agree with you my friend!
09-21-2005, 12:36 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
What got me thinking is, I bought this 45-70 for my deer hunting this year. Thinking I needed it. I know its funny.
I have to say there is a huge difference between my bow hunting, and my rifle hunting. My bow hunting, on this early season, I am generally the only guy in the woods. I can take my time tracking and don't have to worry about somebody else claiming my deer. But in gun season, I need to down them before they run 100 yards in any direction.
I have to say there is a huge difference between my bow hunting, and my rifle hunting. My bow hunting, on this early season, I am generally the only guy in the woods. I can take my time tracking and don't have to worry about somebody else claiming my deer. But in gun season, I need to down them before they run 100 yards in any direction.
09-21-2005, 01:44 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western Nebraska
Posts: 3,393
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
Do we overthink this stuff?
Apparantly some don't think so.....when some posts vehimently why the 6mm is superior to the .243 or the .30-06 is better than the .308....etc. these folks are passionate about their opinions.
It's what makes the forum and those folks should post adinfinidem...
I quit reading after a while because the original thread's intent was served twenty posts ago.
Being objective is difficult in the area of personal opinions.....some even think Republicans are better than democrats.....don't try to tell them that it's not so.....No way they're going to believe it.
Do we overthink this stuff? ....certainly.....it's why I'm working myself to less than ten firearms from over forty.....but that won't change the next guy that goes the same route I've gone.
Apparantly some don't think so.....when some posts vehimently why the 6mm is superior to the .243 or the .30-06 is better than the .308....etc. these folks are passionate about their opinions.
It's what makes the forum and those folks should post adinfinidem...
I quit reading after a while because the original thread's intent was served twenty posts ago.
Being objective is difficult in the area of personal opinions.....some even think Republicans are better than democrats.....don't try to tell them that it's not so.....No way they're going to believe it.
Do we overthink this stuff? ....certainly.....it's why I'm working myself to less than ten firearms from over forty.....but that won't change the next guy that goes the same route I've gone.
09-21-2005, 02:08 PM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
big...I always figure the guys asking those type questions don't have much experience or nobody to help them locally...But, no we don't need all the "stuff" we buy...Fortunately for most of us its a hobby...If I just had to kill a deer to feed my family a good moonlit night might just be when I was hunting...And my caliber of choice might be a .22...We all want instant kills and I usually am able to get these with my centerfire....Bow hunting shows us that we are inferior when it come to our quarry....I started in the early '70s with a Bear 45 lb recurve and 2 Bear heads...As you know they killed deer...
Even with all the improvements in archery "stuff" still happens...I for one refuse to use a release or a peep....To me that goes too far...I have seen as I get older that I do enjoy the outing more than when younger...I don't have to prove a thing to anyone...And neither do you...Just do your best and enjoy....Afterall we are all humbled sometimes....Good Luck
Even with all the improvements in archery "stuff" still happens...I for one refuse to use a release or a peep....To me that goes too far...I have seen as I get older that I do enjoy the outing more than when younger...I don't have to prove a thing to anyone...And neither do you...Just do your best and enjoy....Afterall we are all humbled sometimes....Good Luck
09-21-2005, 02:41 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caribou ME USA
Posts: 298
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
To quote click and clack, I have been unencumbered by the thought process.
I agree with Vapodog except the Republican crack which we all know is wrong.. I have owned a boatload of rifles over the years, different makes, models, actions, and calibers. Several years ago, I sat down and examined how and what I hunt. Determined that 99.9% of my time was spent in the swamps and ridges of Maine and 99.9% of the time I was carrying my 308.
So over time, I sold off a boatload of stuff and now have a a small, and hopefully, well thought out collection of firearms that are actually used.I really don't miss anything I have sold.
I agree with Vapodog except the Republican crack which we all know is wrong.. I have owned a boatload of rifles over the years, different makes, models, actions, and calibers. Several years ago, I sat down and examined how and what I hunt. Determined that 99.9% of my time was spent in the swamps and ridges of Maine and 99.9% of the time I was carrying my 308.
So over time, I sold off a boatload of stuff and now have a a small, and hopefully, well thought out collection of firearms that are actually used.I really don't miss anything I have sold.
09-21-2005, 02:48 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Do we overthink this stuff?
There are a few things I do miss. Some Browning Auto-5's. And such. I now may have 20 long guns. A majority are blackpowder, next shotgun, next high powered rifle and a few little 22's. I enjoy guns, but figured out a few years ago, I think I love target shooting more than gun hunting. I enjoy bow hunting cause the animals are calmer, usually see more, and I get more excited by it. And then if them little suckers stay 40 yards away all year, its payback time around Thanksgiving.