Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

Still looking for the right gun without spending a fortune. Decided not to trade my Benelli Nova for the Nova combo due to the appraisal I got. WOndering though if anyone has used the HR Tracker II and what kind of luck they had with it.

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

I haven't used one but I looked at one when getting mine and asked some questions about them. I don't see why they would not be just as accurate. They have the same length fully rifled barrel with the same twist rates according H&R when I called them. The 20's have 1 in 28 and the 12's have 1 in 35. They just don't use the heavy barrel like the ultra's do.

Draw backs would be you cannot mount a scope on one and from what I hear they kick like all get out because they are considerably lighter.

Benefits would be ligther, so better to carry. Quicker to get on target for close up stuff with the open sights. You could get different barrels because it's the regular frame. The ultras use a 10 gauge frame so the only barrels you can upgrade to are the 10 guage shot barrels. And the price would be much cheaper.

If you didn't mind open sights, and put a good recoil pad on the 20 gauge I think you would have one darn nice slug gun for very little money. And you could get a turkey and bird barrel for it as well and have three shotguns in one. It's still only going to be a single shot though.

I owned a cheap old H&R shotgun for years when I was younger. It was the first real gun I ever had. I think I got it when I was like 13 or 14. Basically the same as the one you are looking at, but not a rifled barrel. That gun lasted for ever. I gave it to a buddy for his kid and he still has it. That makes it 25 years old and as I far as I know it has never had a problem. That is why I did not hesitate to get the Ultra Slug gun. I am also thinking about getting a handi rifle.

I used to shoot 3 inch magnum shells out of mine and I only weighed about 80 lbs when I first got it. I don't see why a full sized man would not be able to handle slugs out of one.

Paul

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

I have taken deer with the Pardner which is very similar. The only major difference is that the barrel is not rifled and no sights. My point being one of feel, not of performance. They handle incredibly and are a dream to carry on a long stalk.

As far as comparing them to the ultra, that I am not sure about. First, I have looked extensivelyto locate the real twist rates of the Ultras and have never found them in print.(As I reread Pauls comment he states the company told him it is 1-35, perhaps he can further discuss that (I heard different years may have had different twists as well)).I have been told by other owners who have said they spoke to the company and that the ultras are 1-28 twist in the 12ga. That sounds logical as that is the current standard for many 12ga. That means thatthe Pardner barrel has nothing in common with the ultras. The Pardner is a 1-35 twist, which is ideally suited for full bore sabots,(although Remington Core Lokts, and WinchesterPartionsperform well with that twist), and it is a 12ga barrel. The Ultras, I believe are 1-28 twist, (meant for sub caliber projectiles), and has a 10ga barrel. That is about as far apart as any two rifled shotguns get.

I believe they are great economy guns, I just don't believe that they compare with the Ultras, Savage's, Mossbergs, etc.

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

I asked them that when I called last week. They said all of their 12 gauge barrels are 1 in 35 and all of the 20 gauges are 1 in 28. They didn't need my serial number or model of gun. The greybeard forums H&R/NEF section confirms this. They have a list of every barrel and what the twist rates are. I was under the impression mine was 1 in 28 as well and they said no, there is no difference in the ultras other than the barrel is a heavier 10 guage blank.

Of course who knows, you may call back and get a completely different answer depending on who you talk to. I have had more than 3 people confirm what I was told though. I know my muzzle loader has a 1 in 28 and it looks tighter than my shot gun barrel does when you look down both.

I have read where the trackers shoot just as well as the Ultras, they just kick harder is all. They also make an Ultra with the regular stock that is a bit cheaper. And walmart can order any of them at pretty good prices if you don't mind getting a gun there.

greybeard H&R faqs link

another

I know you wanted some sort of data from H&R or something, and so did I. That and calling them was the best I could do.

I was hoping mine had a 1 in 28 twist, but it seems to do just fine with the faster small caliber ammo I tried. I might try some of the 1900 fps stuff if I can find it. I have heard of people using muzzle loaders with simular slower twist rates have good accuracy with the 44 and 45 caliber saboted slugs as well. My remington is 1 in 28 though.

My Ultra shoots rifled slugs really well too and they are much cheaper, you just need to spend more time cleaning the barrel.

That is the best I can do.

Paul

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

Single shot. Rifled barrel. Rifled sights. H&R's legendary bank vault lock up. I have no doubt it would shoot evrry bit as well as any other rifled-barreled, rifle-sighted shotgun ............. but maybe a bit better.

From what I've been reading in your posts, this sounds like a good fit for your requirements, IMHODO.

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

Thanks for info Paul ..that is good enough for me.

BTW..If any of you guys plan on doing any sighting in with your 12ga's in this heat you should take a quick look at my post " Hot in da Summer...shots stringing.." for my experiences this weekend.

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

So does that mean the 20ga Ultra would actually be heavier than the 12 if they both use a 10ga blank?

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

I would say yes to that hout. That's what our 20 seems to be. I'll put a micrometer to both the 12 and 20 later today when I clean them and put them away.

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

No, sorry for the confusion. The 12 guage uses a 10 gauge blank and the 20 guage uses a 12 guage blank. Sorry about that. That is another reason the 20 gauge is a good choice in the ultra slug is because you would have better interchangability (is that a word?) with that frame. At least that is the way I understand it. You would be able to put any 12 or 20 guage barrel on it most likely. Your gun store should be able to tell you for sure. Or if you want I can ask or search on the other forum. Might take a few days though.

On the H&R's website they list the youth model Ultra slug at 7 lbs, and the others as 8-9 lbs. So I would again assume (probably not the best idea) that the 20 gauge weighs 8 lbs and the 12 weighs 9 lbs. A 1 pound weight difference. And the steel bar in the stock can be removed if you want. I just weighed it on our bathroom digital scale and is says it is 1.5 lbs. I do not know how accurate that is though because I am sure the scale is calibrated for heavier weights and it only reads in .5 lb increments. So it weighs between a pound and 2lbs. I am sure some searching would give you the correct weight. I saw somewhere before, just don't remember where.

The tracker weighs 5.25 lbs irregardless of guage. So after installing a scope and quality rings the Ultra could easily weigh twice what the tracker does.

JCC, it almost makes me want to call H&R again just to see what the response would be this time? That might not be a bad idea to do if you plan on buying one. I was going to email them, but could find no email option on thier website.

Really what it boils down to is what ever the rifling is in these rifles they are proven to be pretty accurate, way more accurate than they should be for the price according to my gunshop;). It really just seems to be a technicality, and barrel rifling is not really an exact science from what I can tell. Again I will use ML's as a comparison. I shot rifles with 1 in 36, 32, 28 and 24 inch barrels. They could all be made to shoot pretty well. You just need to find the right bullet and charge to get it there. And I shot the even slower side locks for quite a while when I was younger. They were pretty accurate with a light ball and slow twist. Precision Rifle's web page has suggestions for which bullets work well in what barrels for muzzle loaders. The results are sort of interesting. I don't see why the same things would not apply to a slug gun considering they are shooting a very simular bullet at simular speeds. H&R also told me all thier guns are tested with plain old Winchester saboted bullets, not the new fancy bullets.

If I had to guess the barrels with the tighter twist rate would work a bit better with the fast light bullets at longer distances. Really the weight differences are not the much though. A one ounce slug is 437 grns, and faster saboted bullets are around 400 grns. There is probably a difference in the BC because of the shape though.

Good luck,
Paul

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

Oh, and I have noticed the same thing about shooting in the sun. It seems like the barrel will never cool down. Might be an advantage to a stainless barrel. It would reflect the light rather than absorb it. The only thing it seems to effect is my heavy barreled .17 though. And even then it groups better than most other rifles.

Paul

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

Paul I could be wrong but I believe that stainless steel does not disapate heat faster than steel. But you seem to be more directly concerned of the sun's radiant heat soak into the barrel material, I think those temps pale to temps achieved by firing a good few slugs. Anyone?

Maybe it stays hot for what seems a long time after firing because, hey, it's a big chunk of steel. I would guess that off the top of my head the barrel wall thickness of my Ultra 12 is three times thicker than a typical 12 barrel.

Note to self: Put calipers on barrel walls also.

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

OK, I did do some math. It may be off a few thousands because I used a basic caliper and mechanics rule - not a slide caliper. I may do that tomorrow.

I figured that the wall thicknesses are as follows:

H&R Ultra 12 gauge (assuming .729" bore), o.d. 1-1/16": .16675"
H&R Ultra 20 gauge (assuming .615" bore), o.d. 15/16": .16125"
"Regular" 12 gauge smooth bore (assuming .729" bore), o.d. 27/32": .05737"
(JC Higgins Model 20 pump)

So basically yes, the H&R Ultra barrel is 3X thicker than a standard shotgun barrel, atleast in the 12 gauge data.

Just for kicks to try and say yes or no to the notion of the H&R 12 being bored in a 10 gauge barrel blank. If the 10 gauge barrel is 1.0625" and 10 gauge bore is .775" then 1.0625" o.d. - .775" bore = .2875". Dividing the .2875" by 2 for both walls of the barrel is .2875" / 2 = .14375" wall thickness, which would again make the 10 gauge barrel appear bullish beings as that .14375" is not too far off the Ultra 12's .16675 (-.023").

I don't recall the 10 gauge H&R's to be bull looking at all, so maybe the 12 Ultra is made from something more than just a 10 gauge barrel blank. It could be that it is just a generality used to descibe them that the average layman would be likely to understand. Maybe there is a totally seperate blank for the Ultras.

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

You would really need to compare a 10 guage rifled slug barrel to a 12 gauge rifled heavy barrel not a shot barrel. I am sure they have different demensions. And you would have to take the measurement in the middle of the barrle some where, not at the end incase there was some sort of taper to it. I am sure the shot barrels have a different wall thickness regargless of guage.

You could be correct though. The 12 gauge may not simply be a 10 guage barrel with a 12 guage diameter bore in it. It really depends on how they make the barrels. It could be that the 12 and the 10 use the same bar stock to begin with, then again maybe not. Or they might use some sort of tube rather than bar stock. It would be as simple as telling the machine to mill the outside dimension of the barrel the same as a 10 guage instead of a 12 guage. If they used the same bar stock it would be quite the waste of metal though.

If I could get a hold of a parts catalog I could tell you for sure. If the hand gaurds are the same for a 10 guage rifled barrel, and a 12 guage ultra barrel you could pretty much bet they were the same barrel with a different bore. I showed my ultra to a buddy and he immediately thought it was a 10 gauge before he looked at the hole in the barrel and I told him it was a heavy 12. I have really not seen that many 10 gauges to know by looking at one to be honest. I would have to go to the local gun store and see if they had any 10 gauges in stock. I don't think they do.

What I can tell by looking at H&Rs website is that the the 12, 20, 410 and so on regular barrels both shot and slug use a SB1 receiver and the 10 guage uses a SB2 reciever. When you look at the Ultra Slug guns the 12 guage uses the SB2 reciever and the 20 uses the smaller the SB1. Except oddly enough when you move to the Ultra Deluxe both the 20 and the 12 use the SB2 reciever. However I can't see them using a different barrel than the regular ultra does.

Bottom line is they are BIG and heavy. If I had it to over again I would get the 20 gauge in the non deluxe model just for more interchangability. From what I can tell none of the shot gun recievers will accept a rifle barrel, so that is out from the get go.

Paul

RE: Anyone use the HR Tracker II?
 

OK, I just did some more looking. They don't even offer a 10 gauge rifled barrel. I thought they did. However when you look at the 10 guage barrel listing the the 12 guage heavy barrel is listed there. And it says nothing about coming with or needing a special forend, so the 10 gauge forend must fit it.

The 20 gauge heavy barrel has a note that it comes with the special forend that that barrel only takes. That leads me to believe that it is not a 12 guage blank, but maybe some completely different design or something. It's odd they list it being on either reciever though. I wonder if it was a miss print or something.

Paul