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7MM WSM Unpopular
Everything I read says that the 7mm wsm are not selling nearly as much as the .270.300 wsm. I looked up the balistics and the 7 looks good when compared to the 270 wsm. Why is the wsm so unpopular?
Compare Ballistics Load Number Brand: P270WSMB PREMIUM VITAL*SHOK® P7WSMB PREMIUM VITAL*SHOK® Load Details Federal Load No. Factory Primer No. Caliber Bullet Weight Grains / Grams Bullet style Use T.B* P270WSMB 215 270 Win. Short Magnum 130 / 8.42 Nosler Ballistic Tip 2 24 P7WSMB 215 7mm Win. Short Magnum 140 / 9.07 Nosler Ballistic Tip 2 24 Velocity in Feet Per Second Load Number Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 3300 3066 2844 2632 2430 2238 P7WSMB 3310 3099 2897 2704 2520 2342 Energy in Foot Pounds Load Number Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 3143 2714 2334 2000 1705 1445 P7WSMB 3406 2985 2609 2273 1974 1705 Wind Drift in Inches 10 MPH Crosswind Load Number 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 0.8 2.6 6.0 10.8 17.5 P7WSMB 0.7 2.4 5.3 9.6 15.3 Average Range Load Number 50 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB -0.3  -2.2 -8.7 -20.2 -37.7 P7WSMB -0.3 -2.1 -8.4 -19.4 -35.9 Long Range Load Number 50 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 0.2 1.1 -5.4 -15.8 -32.2 P7WSMB 0.2 1.1 -5.2 -15.2 -30.6 |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
MM cartridges have never been as popular in the U.S. As in other parts of the world. The 7MM Rem Mag was an exception but it was about the only exception. Remington introduced the 5MM and it failed. The 6MM compared to the 243 also didn't catch on. Remington introduced the 8MM and it went nowhere. The 10MM didn't do much and if not picked up by the Military, the 9MM may not have made a splash either. As long as I can remember there just has not been much support in America for the Metric system. Also I think that the popularity of the 300 WSM has hurt the sales of the 7MM WSM. What can the 7MM WSM do that the 300 can't do as well or better. The 270 WSM fills the need better for a smaller caliber and the 270 which has always been popular benifited from tacking Magnum on the end as well as catching onto the Short Fat trend. Thats My thoughts on the subject. Others may have more ideas.
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
I think in actuality the 7mm WSM offers nothing over the established 7mm Rem Mag. The 300 WSM is only popular because it came out first and was the latest and greatest, but it offers nothing over the 300 Win Mag. The 270 WSM offers better ballistics over the 270 Win, and costs less then the 270 Weatherby Mag so it is the only WSM that actually fills a niche.
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
I just bought a 7mm WSM a month or so ago........ only other option I was even looking at was a 270..... the 300 mag outshoots the 300 WSM....... and the 7mmWSM outshoots all of them
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
based on 150 grain bullet
7mmWSM [ul]200 yrds 2648 FPS 2335 ft lbs 300 yrds 2396 FPS 1911 ft lbs[/ul] 270WSM [ul]200 yrds 2601 FPS 2252 ft lbs 300 yrds 2350 FPS 1839 ft lbs[/ul] 300 mag [ul]200 yrds 2636 FPS 2314 ft lbs 300 yrds 2442 FPS 1827 ft lbs[/ul] 270 [ul]200 yrds 2336 FPS 1817 ft lbs 300 yrds 2442 FPS 1827 ft lbs[/ul] |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
Those numbers mean nothing. What bullet weight are you using for each? I think your math may be a bit off in favor of your new baby.
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
those are all based on a 150 gr bullet......... i didnt do the math it was off of one of the ammunition manufacturers website
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
There you go then. You can't lump them all together with one bullet weight.
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
no my baby will always be my trusty ol .30 .30 ive used for years and years.....lol
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
honestly I see mroe .270 around here than anything else......... the 7mm equates to a .284......... I chose it cause it has good ballistics and is in in between caliber of the .270 and the .300/.30 06
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
originally posted by bspencer:
based on 150 grain bullet 7mmWSM 200 yrds 2648 FPS 2335 ft lbs 300 yrds 2396 FPS 1911 ft lbs 270WSM 200 yrds 2601 FPS 2252 ft lbs 300 yrds 2350 FPS 1839 ft lbs 300 mag 200 yrds 2636 FPS 2314 ft lbs 300 yrds 2442 FPS 1827 ft lbs 270 200 yrds 2336 FPS 1817 ft lbs 300 yrds 2442 FPS 1827 ft lbs I don't really care whether or not a 7mm WSM is better than a 270 or 300 WSM or whatever.I'd simply like to point out that there's something wrong with the numbers above. For instance, if they're all 150gr.bullets of like kind, then a 150 gr. 7mm bullet is going to have a higher ballistic coefficient than a 30 caliber bullet and, therefore, retain velocity and energy better over distance. Yet above, the 7mm bullet, while traveling faster at 200 yards, is slower at 300 yds.than the 30 cal. This isn't possible if the bullets are the same kind. The bullets must be of a different kind in each example or else the numbers are wrong. Regardless, it makes the comparison less than valid. More obvious than that, however,is the 270 example. The velocity is higher at 300 yards than it is at 200. Is there some sort of self propelled bullet out there I don't know aboutthat gains speed as it leaves the muzzle? If so I'd like to know about it. Please recheck the numbers and repost. And if you don't mind, list the bullet used in each cartridge. |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
The 7MM WSM will not outshoot the other two if you use bullets with equal Sectional Density for each caliber. That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with any of them. Its just that when you compare, you have to give them all a fair shake. I don't have the figures in front of me but you would prabably need to use the 130 or 140 for the 270 and the 165 0r 180 for the 300 to get equal SD's to compare the three.
I get plenty of performance from the standard 270, 280 and 308 for my needs but I did consider the 300 WSM and still have it in the back of my mind. I just need to think of a logical reason for the purchase. (Besides I want One):DSince I am retired, the wife brings in more income that I do so she gets to vote:D. |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
well said frizz
I think in actuality the 7mm WSM offers nothing over the established 7mm Rem Mag. The 300 WSM is only popular because it came out first and was the latest and greatest, but it offers nothing over the 300 Win Mag. The 270 WSM offers better ballistics over the 270 Win, and costs less then the 270 Weatherby Mag so it is the only WSM that actually fills a niche. |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
270 wsm 130 gr Nosler BT
300 wsm 165 gr Nosler BT Solid Base 7MM wsm 140 gr Nosler BT P270WSMB PREMIUM VITAL*SHOK® P300WSMS1 PREMIUM VITAL*SHOK® P7WSMB PREMIUM VITAL*SHOK® Load Details Federal Load No. Factory Primer No. Caliber Bullet Weight Grains / Grams Bullet style Use T.B* P270WSMB 215 270 Win. Short Magnum 130 / 8.42 Nosler Ballistic Tip 2 24 P300WSMS1 215 300 Win. Short Magnum 165 / 10.69 Nosler Solid Base BT 3 24 P7WSMB 215 7mm Win. Short Magnum 140 / 9.07 Nosler Ballistic Tip 2 24 Velocity in Feet Per Second Load Number Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 3300 3066 2844 2632 2430 2238 P300WSMS1 3130 2904 2690 2486 2290 2104 P7WSMB 3310 3099 2897 2704 2520 2342 Energy in Foot Pounds Load Number Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 3143 2714 2334 2000 1705 1445 P300WSMS1 3589 3090 2651 2263 1921 1621 P7WSMB 3406 2985 2609 2273 1974 1705 Wind Drift in Inches 10 MPH Crosswind Load Number 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 0.8 2.6 6.0 10.8 17.5 P300WSMS1 0.6 2.7 6.2 11.4 18.7 P7WSMB 0.7 2.4 5.3 9.6 15.3 Average Range Load Number 50 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB -0.3 -2.2 -8.7 -20.2 -37.7 P300WSMS1 -0.3 -2.6 -10.1 -23.1 -42.9 P7WSMB -0.3 -2.1 -8.4 -19.4 -35.9 Long Range Load Number 50 100 200 300 400 500 P270WSMB 0.2 1.1 -5.4 -15.8 -32.2 P300WSMS1 0.4 1.3 -6.1 -17.8 -36.3 P7WSMB 0.2 1.1 -5.2 -15.2 -30.6 1-Varmints, Predators, Small game, 2-Medium game, 3-Large, Heavy game, 4-Dangerous game, 5-Target shooting, Training, Practice |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
why go with 7mm when the 270 and 300 cover everything and are gaining ground as popular rounds for the novice hunters.
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
http://www.federalcartridge.com/default.asp?pg=27&firearm=1
I bought a 7mm wsm last year based upon ballistic charts that I studied, particularly the one above and to me it appeared that it was comparable to the 300 win., 300 wsm, and 7mm (regular) out to 200 yds and outclassed them all at 300+. I did a dozen different comparisons and it looked like it won out in energy, velocity, drift and drop. The only caliber that was "better" to my way of thinking was the 7mm stw which they did not make in the gun model I purchased. The only real negative I see is the current price of ammo for it which will probably get worse if it continues to lag behind in overall popularity. I kind of like having a caliber that is rarer than most, but I'm definately gonna have to start reloadin'. sorry I couldn't put up all the charts but if you go to that website you can pick and match any caliber against any other with any and all cartridges that federal makes hb |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
I have seen those same charts as you jsut posted and all of them show the 7mm WSM outperforms them all at 300+yrds........ and is very comparable from muzzle -300yrd
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
I feel the WSM is the best choice if you you have decided you are going to go 7MM. Itis in a dead heat with thelarger STW and 150 to 200 FPS ahead of the 7MM Remington Mag. The fact that it is available in the short action rifles makes it a better choice than the 7MM Remington Mag even without the better ballistics. This cartridge can deliver 2097lbs at 400 yards with Federal ammo with 160 Grain accubond bullets. That is better than the 300 Winchester Mag can deliver with factory ammo. I cannot understand why this is not selling circles around the other 7 MM offerings.
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
With the 160 grain Sierra bullets the 7WSM is 100 fps behind the 7MM Rem Mag and 250 fps behind the 7 MM STW. With heavier bullets the WSM bullets have to be seated to a depth that won't allow enough powder to compete with the bigger 7"s. Several of my reloading manuals list this as a problem for the WSM with heavy bullets. With lighter bullets it can equal the other 7's
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
the winchester Model 70 ultimate shadow has a longer chamber that can accomodate the larger bullets better...... makes it easier for self reloaders to get the extra potential out of the WSM
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
JB is correct, other than the 7Rem, metric cartridges have just never panned out in the U.S. In Europe the 7WSM was asked for so much of late that Beretta added it too Sako/Tikka last fall. I don't know who is getting their information and where it came from but the 7WSM is NOT 2-300fps hotter than the 7Rem. The WSM ballistic tables are notoriously "hot" and many gun writers (who weren't on the dole) have ran many through cronies and proven the figures on ink to be optimistic, some by as much as 150-200fps+. Likewise the 7Rem has ALWAYS been loaded down, even in most reloadin manuals you will see strangely low figures compared to what can be accomplished with good rifles with 24"-26" barrels and slow powders.
Aint tryin to rain on anyones parade, it sounds like someone is in need of extra re-assurance as too their decision and purchase. The caliber itself is a GREAT one. But it is essentially a FLOP here stateside and you can bet the factory ammo selections are only going to get slimmer instead of growing steadily like the other two WSMs. Most makers today that are beginning to pickup the WSMs are not doing so with the 7s. And it is a universal, industry wide question and confusion. I spent a weekend lastyear in WY with several gun, optics and ammo makers and one of Kimbers national reps asked me personally why we didn't order any 7WSMs (my brother was a Kimber Master Dealer). I told him basically what I just put down here and he alluded that basically that was the same reason given by ALL their dealers nationwide. I think many in the industry actually thought the 7WSM would practically wipe the 270WSM off the shelves but it's been the other way around. Another thing that is basically a parallel and really the WSM incident is just a repeat of it, around my section of the country and with guys that shoot Weatherby's, there are a considerable amount of 270Wbys and 300Wbys. But very very few 7Wbys. Our sales of both guns and ammo likewise bore that point as well. America is simply a .277 and .308 calibers market, has been that way for a LONG time and it appears likely to remain so. The only conclusion I can draw from the success of the 7Rem is that it was the first "affordable, bluecollar, bareable recoil" magnum brought to the market by a major maker. Remember that Roy Weatherby's first magnum was the 270 and I'm sure that was based on the fact that when he did it in the 40s the 270/Oconnor affair was in full swing. (Remember likewise that Mr. Jack went on record several times as quoting the 7mmMauser to be his favorite!) I guess that is why Remington didn't "reinvent" the wheel and do a 270 mag vs the 7 they came out with. BUT it is my opinion that if either Remington, Winchester or Ruger simply took a 7Rem dimensioned case (blownout and straightened and shortened 300H&H) and stuck a 277 in it and called it the XYZ 270Mag and keep ammo prices reasonable, it would sell like HOTCAKES shortmags be damned. There's just that much sentimental and determinedness in the American shooting publics mind concerning the .277 bore! I PROMISE you it would go over. Imagine the ".270 O'connor Magnum"??? You'd have to sell lottery tickets for the first few runs of rifles!!! We're a finicky lot we hunters, RA |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
Interesting readin Red. I always heard they were pretty wildly inflated numbers on the WSM also. I would still like to have a 6.5 WSM :D
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
"Aint tryin to rain on anyones parade, it sounds like someone is in need of extra re-assurance as too their decision and purchase (RedAlison)."
Wrong...Actually I am not trying to justify a purchase because I do not own one. From looking at balistics I could not understand why the 7mm wsm was not selling more. |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
James B I will assume your numbers came from a reloading manual not a factory load. I rechecked the factory offerings and found the 7MM Remington behind by over 100 + FPS at 140, 150, and 160 grains. Before you go back to saying the WSM numbers are being misrepresented, just remember they both have case capacities of 83 grains (so I am not sure what you meant by "bigger 7s") and the WSM has a higher pressure limit. So it makes sense that the WSM will be ahead. This is giving you the benifit of the doubt, that the shorter cases are not more efficient than the longer cases as the manufacturers claim.
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
Red, (or anyone)
If you could post a link or website that contains objective opinions by gun writers you citedd earlier that state theWSMs have innacurate ballistic charts with some of these major manufacturers, I 'd appreciate it. Thanks |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
the 7mmWSM would probably even or ahead of the 270WSM if they were released at the same time.....
they were announce together.but they had to redo the chamboer or something on the 7mmWSM so it ened up coming out a little later..........this was stated in one of the links i posted earlier |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
James B in Post # 12 you said you needed to compare bullets of equal sectional density to give them all a fair shake. Comparing cartridges this way is not a fair shake comparison. See the results below for a 3000 FPS impact:
Caliber WT SD KE lbs/Momentum 270133 .248 2658 57 7MM 140 .248 2798 60 .308 165 .248 3297 70.7 When you compare bullets of different calibers with equal sectional density and equal velocity you will see the larger bullets have far greater terminal performance. As demostrated above the .308 caliber bullet has 639 LBS, 24% more kinectic energy and 24% more momentum than the 270. Hardly a "fair shake" comparison. |
RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
yea, thats exactly why they hit harder
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RE: 7MM WSM Unpopular
The 7WSMs release delay was strictly for legal and liability reasons. They simply didn't want some moron putting a 7WSM in his 270WSM and giving himself another eyehole in his skull (I would call it natural selection and genepool control!). They simply pushed the neck out a fraction so that the 7 wouldn't camber in the 270.
As for links too the articles I spoke of about WSM velocity tests, I have no idea if they are on the web or not. The articles were in various printed articles a few years ago, some in regional and some in national publications. You gotta give ANYONE credit for doing it, because of the potential that existed of pissing Win/Browning off and then them canceling their ads. Getchusum, RA |
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