Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

What is the difference between the 300wsm and winmag? Besides the fact that one is a short action and one is a long action. According to federals ballistics the 300wsm and wm have the same amount of nrg and velocity and the same trajectory. Why would winchester come out with a gun that performs almost identical to the originally 300? whats difffernt????????? plz help me on this subjects

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

[link]http://www.federalcartridge.com/ammo40/compare.asp[/link]
here is the ballistics i was looking at!

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

In handloads loaded to design pressure,the 300winmag actually produces slightly more velocity with the same bullet weight.The 300wsm produces almost the same ballistics but will fit in a short action while the 300winmag requires a long action.The 300wsm rifle is therefore very slightly shorter and a few ounces lighter if that matters to you.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Add to that there is NO BELT. Belts on cartridges are only there because the designers of the cartridge were to dang lazy to design a case with out them.They serve no purpose in a modern bottle necked designed cartridge such as the Win mags and Rem. mags. With cartridges such as the H&H designs that had long shoulders specifically designed for reliable feeding for hunting dangerous game and straight wall cartridges the belt is needed for proper headspace.

A cartridge that headspaces on the shoulder, such as the WSM, is inherantly more accurate than one that headspaces on the rim of the belt, such as the Win mag. This is because the more distance you put between the base of the cartridge and the point at which the cartridge headspaces the more stable it is when siting inside the chamber and the less it moves around when the firing pin strikes the primer, the powder begins to ignite, and the bullet begins to leave the case.

The WSM will also kick slightly less than it's larger cousin. This is because the weight of the powder also plays a roll in recoil. The more powder in a case the more that powder weighs and the more recoil you get. Same as adding bullet weight.

Shorter and fatter cases are inherantly more accurate than longer skinnier cases. This is because more powder is ignited by the primer and burns more efficiently. Do a little research on long range bench rest shooting and you will see that the majority or shooters will be shooting a short and fat cartridge of some kind. The world record in 1000 yard bench rest competition was recently set using a 6mm BR cartridge. The group measured just 4.2278 inches.

A short action rifle is inherantly more accurate than a longer action. It is more rigid than a longer action thus flexing less when firing and under recoil.


So you see, it's not all about ballistics alone.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

That does apply only in rifles of the same weight.The wsm isusually chambered in lighter rifles than the 300winmag and since rifle weight is one of the most important factors in recoil,the result is that most ofthe wsm rifles provide as much recoil as the 300winmag rifles.

Theoretically this is thought to be correct.However the quality of the rifles and load are far larger factors in determining accuracy than the cartridge.In the case of a custom target rifle and match bullets you may see abarely measurabledifference in accuracy,but it certainly will not be noticeable in a hunting rifle using hunting bullets.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

I find the WSM's so easy to reload for compared to the long action kin. I can almost watch velocity spread and find the most accurate load. IMO, WSM is an improvement over the Win mag.

The down side is the short case don't feed near as well as a HH, or win mag. Shouldn't be a problem, but still exist.

I like them both but like the WSM over what I have seen reloading.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Mostly a matter of opinion. I lean toward the WSM version. To me the shorter action offsets anything the WMS MIIGHT give up in ballistics.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

The WM has a slight advantage over the WSM with bullets larger then 180gr due to the length of the bullet taking away case capacity. On the short action WSM your COL is limited to the magazine length. The WM should use protected point bullets also when the WSM does not need them.. I got a Ruger 77 in 300 WSM and it will shoot a 1/2" group at 100 yards.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

I disagree with this statement. I've been working up a load for my 300 WSM with Hornady SST's in 165 gr. In the magazine they flatten slightly with recoil....next bullets will be a protected point of some kind....just can't figure out whick one of the oh-so-many available choices.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

I understand and agree about the efficiency of a short powder column. But I also think that any style cartridge can be made to shoot accurately, rimmed,belted,rebated rim or rimless.
On the thinking that a cartridge should headspace off the datum line then wouldn't it make sense to make the cartridge as long as possible to get the datum line as far away from the bolt face because the case head does not fit perfectly in the bolt. Like when using iron sights, you want a long sight radius.
Having shot long range black powder for years and seen what can be done with a rimmed cartridge and rimmed bottle neck cartridgesand also shooting the other types,IMHO the companies took a page out of the benchrest book on short powder columns to use as there trick of the year to sell more guns.
I have hunted with too many people that have had problemsfeeding a hurried second shot.
eventhough this can be over come or they would not be making tactical weapons in the short, fat calibers. It comes down to sales,sales, sales.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

I disagree w/ the comment that the rimmed cases are INHERANTLY more accurate than non-rimmed cases. That comes from some very old biases that frackly have not been born out or proved to be factual. There are plenty of top notch benchrest shooters thathave proved that the belted cases can be just as accurate as the smoothies. The same holds true of the short-fat being more accurate, that is a popular theory at the moment, and may be proved to be true,but not fact. There is one FACT, they aremore efficient in that they use less powder to achieve the same velocities.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Not rimmed cases vs. non rimmed. But rather bottle necked cases that headspace on the shoulder VS. belted cases that headspace on the belt. A belt on a case does nothing to help improve the accuracy of a given cartridge.Yes there are some people that have done good with belted cartridges but by a large margin a bottle neck cartridge will have more potential to be an accurate cartridge.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

I think that's the best reply.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Easy, to sell rifles. There are a lot of folks who just have to have whatever "Latest Thing" comes down the line so firearms manufactureres are only too happy to concoct a "Latest Thing" for them every couple of years. Each "Latest Thing" is always accompanied by a ton of marketing hype officially proclaiming it as the greatest advancement since they first put rifling in a gun barrel. And of course most of that marketing hype is basically just pure bull###t The 300wsm offers no ballistic advantage over the 300 wm.As for thetheoretical claims of being more accurate? Even if true, you are talking a very minute fraction here. A difference so small that it is easily brushed aside toabsolute insignificance by the variances in the particular rifle set up. Reduced Recoil? I'm sure fired from the same weight gun there wouldpossibly be a measurable difference but of course the 300 wsm rifle is going to weight less than the standard sized 300 wm rifle. A practical difference that has a far greater impact on felt recoil than the hull shape of a cartridge.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

If they didn't come out with new rifles and cartridges then we would all be shooting a 30-06. Gee that would be a whole lot of fun. [&:] [&:] [&:] If we didn't have advances in technology and design then we would all still be living in the stone age chunking spears and eating raw meat.

It does have the same bassistics as the larger 300 but it is like comparing a light weight modern sports car to a older heavier muscle car. The heavier muscle car made of heavy steel will reach 150 mph in a quarter mile but the modern sports car will be able to do the same thing with less power needed under the hood thanks to beter technology, lighter weight materials, etc... etc...

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Bigbulls - Sorry for the diction error[:o]...I meant belted cases.:DBut of course you knew that;)by your response. I still dont agree that the case is at ornear the top of the list of factors in accuracy. One reason the small, short fats are used in the benchrest competitions is that they are highly comfortable to shoot. I can shoot my 6mm all day and still not flinch at the end of it, I cant say the same for my 300win. now does that mean that my 300win is less accurate? No ...it means my sorry a$$ cant handle it as well as the 6mm.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

I know I am late on this post but to answer the question about why do we need more cartridges. The same reason there is so many kinds of Marlboro cigarettes (for an example). The sales people have figured out that there are enough people who just HAVE TO HAVE the latest and greatest. This means sales, sales, sales. If people wouldn't buy them the companies would quit making us think we need them.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

It boils down to 5 to 6 grains of powder and the plus goes to the 300 win mag. That's for those that reload. And for those that reload know what 5 grains of powder willadd to the velocity. About a difference of 100 to 150fps. Put that in your short mag case and you got problems. I'm not knocking them I just think its something new for them to sell without any advantage in actual ballistics changes. Everyone is looking for the greener grass and they are making tons of money off these ones.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Here's another way to look at it.

How many vehicles do you have? How many do you really need? Are they all the same make, model, color, engine, etc?

How many shotguns do you have? How many do you reaqlly need? Are they all the same make and model?

How many rifles do you own? How many do you really need? Are they all the same make, model, and caliber? Anyone have more than one rifle in the same caliber.... IE - 6mm, 25, 30, etc...?

How many televisions do you have? How many do you really need? Are they all the same make and model?

The fact is that the WSM's offer things that the belted magnums do not just like the belted magnums offer something for the reloader that the WSM's do not. It isn't all about sales although many people try to make it sound that way. Sure the manufacturers are profiting from the WSM's but if they were a bunch of bunk they wouldn't be selling the way that they are.

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Intersting thread.

How about a .243 WSSM vs.the .243 Win. Does anybody see an advantage of one over the other?

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Hey Bigbulls, thanks for the link tothose adapter rings:D

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

Well....that just might be a good thing.....I sure like my '06's....here is my group yesterday with my old Sako.....168gr Nosler CTBT at 2820.....100 year technology and still going strong!

RE: Whats the difference they both have the same ballistics????????
 

It's all hundred year old technology. A metallic case, primer, bullet, and smokeless powder. Regardless of the shape of the case it is still the same technology.

Different cartridges offer individual people different things that they like or dislike.

I much prefer the case design of the WSM's over the belted magnums. Personally I would like to see a standard (30-06) length cartridge based on a lengthened WSM. But that won't happen cause it would really be a direct replacement for the 300 Win mag. and Winchester certainly doesn't want that.;)

BK, no problem.