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RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

A cartridge such as the 25-06 or 7mm-08 would be very good for a 12 year old as recoil is mild and they perform very well on deer sized animals.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

a 308 would be good also

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

i would go with the 243win or maybe the 260rem.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Whitetail deer are not particularly hard animals to kill. Any caliber that you can handle and shoot well from .243 on up, with good bullets will do a good job on deer.
That said, the 7MM-08 could just be the best "all around" deer caliber! Light recoil, flat trajectory, and more than enough power at any range that deer should be shot at!

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

if your hunting open area,then the 243 is great.
if not 7mm08

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RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

a 30-30 is mild in recoil and perfect for missouri deer.

Guns cause crime, like flies cause garbage.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

A Savage 99 (lever action) in .250 Savage is a perfect starter rifle. The only problem is they're no longer made, so you have to look around the used gun racks to find one.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

3030win, not trying to bust your chops but the 30-30 Win is not perfect for anything, even though most rifles chambered in 30-30 make fine door props. Ballistically, factory loads the 30-30 Win are anemic at best and handloading can't improve performance much because of the 30-30's thin case walls. Winchester 94's and Marlin 336's are not beginner guns, nor is any other firearm that has a hammer. Yes, I know that the newer models have hammer-block safeties but young excited thumbs continue to slip without the safety being on. Lastly, those type of guns chambered in 30-30 Win are strictly one trick ponies; short range.

muzzy 125 "if your hunting open area,then the 243 is great.
if not 7mm08". Huh? What exacly are you saying here? Are you saying that the 243 Win is flatter shooting? Not really since the 7mm-08 can shoot 140 grain bullets at the same velocity that the 243 can shoot 100 grains.

A bolt action rifle in 243 Win, 260 Rem, or 7mm-08 would do nicely. Why did I leave out the 308 Win? Well in short, light rifles the recoil of a 308 can be enough to discourage a young shooter. I would stick with short actions just because a small shooter would probably be able to handle it better.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

The 30-30 would be perfect for you. It is an awesome deer rifle out to 150 yds with any factory ammunition.

Recoil is light, guns are relatively inexpensive, ammo is cheap and found almost everywhere, and performance on deer size game is outstanding.

Hammer safeties are as safe as anyother kind, and if you get a newer model, it will have both the hammer safey as well as the cross-bolt safety.

Go with the 30-30

Happy Hunting,
Ths78

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Another vote for the 7mm-08. I have a Mauser 98 that I sporterized into 7mm-08 that will make a nice rifle for my step-daughter to start using next year.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

i am with frizz on lever actions bot being a good beginner gun. i have had many a person who has never fired a firearm before shooting my win 94XTR in 22mag. 3 out of the 4 people have not help onto the trigger when putting it on half cock and has gone off.


http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballis.../7mm08rbal.htm

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballis.../260rembal.htm

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Heres another second for Frizz!
30-30 are short range guns and not for beginners!
I know someone will say that they, or someone they know have taken deer at 300 yards with the 30-30! If so, they were either an expert marksman with lots of shooting under their belts or a very, very lucky shot! Most would fall into the latter catagory!

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Get a 30-30 Marlin 336 and put a Bushnell 4x scope on it. This is what I got my daughter 2 years age. Ammo is sold everywhere and most of todays 30-30 ammo will do just fine out to 150 yards. Young hunters should learn to shoot at 100 to 150 yards and learning the art of stalking befor moving on to a longer range rifle. The 30-30 has been taking deer for years and will continue to do so for years to come. Just check out the Marlin web site fourm and ask those folks how well the 30-30 works. Go to Marlin talk and click on the link. Then go to 336 fourm

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/

hornet Man

Hornet Man

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

first off this is a biginner hunter,i thick?
I have both 243 and the 7mm08 in brush the 243 with a 100 grain will not crash the bush like a 7mm in a 160 grain no were close.
the 160 is 2400 ft and the 100 grain, 243 is 2800 dont get me wrong
the 243 is a good gun.but in bush the 7mm is far better with 160 grain
if would like bigger then there is so many. 270 30-06 and up.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

I said a 30-30 is a perfect gun for Missouri Deer. Meaning most deer in Missouri are taken UNDER 100 yards. Most of missouri is thick woods and a 30-30 makes a perfect woods gun. And good luck when you forget your ammo on a hunting trip. I doubt many ma & pop stores have 25-06 or 7mm-08 on hand. And a 243 will deflect easy, it takes alot to sway a 170grain 30-30 bullet.

And should any "NEW" hunter be trying a 300yd shot anyway?

I learned on a lever action with only a half cock saftey, If you are safe and carefull(which you should be with any gun)and know how to use the gun you are shooting, you should have no problem with a Lever action.

Guns cause crime, like flies cause garbage.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

the 30-30win has probally taken more deer than any caliber but it probally has wounded just as much.
i would look at the 260rem and 7mm-08rem as long distance rifles. but if your shots are under 100yds the 30-30win would be just as fine as the 260rem and 7mm-08rem.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

I can think of at least 3 published tests that debunk your whole "brush gun" theory. The 30-30 Win deflects just as much as a light bullet moving at high speed. Actually some tests say it deflects more. Same thing with the 243 and 7mm-08. The bottom line is there is no one bullet or caliber that is any better in brush than another. It is irresponsible to even suggest such a thing to a novice hunter.



Edited by - frizzellr on 09/25/2002 07:56:41

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

I can think of 3 publications that say Elvis is still alive living with Morrison from the Doors. Don't mean I have to believe everything I read. I mean as a scientist, there is scientific basis why one bullet will deflect more than the other in certain media, same as light from lasers that I work with will do the same with different data rates and output powers.

I take publication with a grain of salt these days. One day you got John Barshness saying the Nosler PT will outpenetrate anything, then you got another editor from another saying the opposite, then you find out that Barshness is basically hugely in bed with Nosler helping them develop BT for bullets in the 358 caliber, on and on. I am just using him as an example, and he is one of the most well know hunting writers of this day. Best thing a person can do is read several sources and try it out yourself.

Fizzellr, not bashing on ya and do enjoy your posts. I am just making a point from a science point of view and a huge sceptic. I learned the hard way on a buck with bow on Saturday evening about this deflection, that its not good with any bullet or arrow. Took a risky shot past a trig in my way and paid the price of it. At least, I didn't hit him with a bad shot.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

bigcountry, from a scientific stndpoint you and I both know there is no cartridge/bullet combination that will bore through brush without having the flightpath altered. That is a given and has been proven many times. My whole point was that there is no such thing as a "brush busting" cartridge and I will stand by that statement.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Bigcountry, there is no such thing as a brush busting" caliber!
Yes, some calibers and/or bullet types may deflect less than others but ALL will deflect enough to miss the deer or worse, wound it! To promote the brush buster myth, just leads to a false confidence, which leads to bad shots and wounded animals! We are not bending light here, we are hunting, and out of respect for game animals, we owe it to them not to take any shots that are not clearly unobstructed!
I'll also stand by my statement that the 30-30 is a short range gun, and it is certainly not a beginners gun either! The 30-30 may have killed more deer than any other caliber, it may have killed more than all others combined, but that doesn't make it "the best!" It doesn't even make it a "good" deer caliber! When compared to the 30 or 40 newer, and better calibers on the market today, it falls way short of being good!

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Ok, guys, I guess nobody has every did things that are the least bit wrong while hunting. I guess nobody has ever, when they were kids, tried out the brush busting theory and it worked. Not once, but several times. Should I have done it? Was it perfectly ethical? I guess I am the only one that has did these things and all other hunters are perfect people. I bet no one here but me has maybe shot a litte too early. Everyone else is perfect.

Well, if you are perfect Jagman, I congradulate you, but us mere mortals, make a few mistakes here and there. It is just when someone makes the statement, with so much "as a matter of fact", that I will jump in and say "not exactly". No reason going thru life being ignorant of the fact just cause someone that I maybe met once wrote their opinion in a stupid magizine. So Jag man, if you busted a 12lb cannon ball at 100fps into a briar patch, how much do you think it would deflect? Prabably what we call negliable. Now take that same cannon ball and speed it up to 4000 fps. Not so negliable anymore.

Actually JagMan, we are bending light here. It comes all from the same basis of statics and dynamics. You can take the same formulas and put them to work in frequency domain in light as you can with RF waves. Hence, how you and others get to type on those fancy bullistic calculators to figure your drop and drift. Same thing.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Jag, the main thing that makes a gun good is the shooter behind it. Put a bad shooter behind a 30-06, 308, 7mm ect, And I will out shoot him with my 30-30, hell even put a good shooter behind one. If you feel you need a giant gun to be a good deer hunter than go ahead. But I'm fine and content with my 30-30.

Guns cause crime, like flies cause garbage.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

oh frizz.are you going to tell me a 243 is as good
as a 338 winn?in brush. wow

there are reports out there that go throw all cartridges,
and shows the best.to the worst. for yes crashing brush.
the top .

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Quilly
The problem with your statement about the 30-30 as killing more deer and then wounding more is this. The blame is on the hunter and not the 30-30. Many try and shoot farther then the 30-30’s limit. And that is where the problem is. The 30-30 within it’s range, say 150 yards will put a buck down if the shooter does his part and places the bullet in the right place.

The 30-30 is at it’s best in heavily wooded areas and actually has an advantage over a longer barreled 22 or 24 inch hunting rifle. It is short and easy to carry and is quick to come up to the solder. It has a fast follow up shot when needed. If the 30-30 win is used as it should be, then it is a great first rifle. Want to see a great Article on the 30-30 ? Then Click the link below.

Http//:www.sixgunner.com/mcpherson/3030.htm

Nuf said.

Hornrt Man



Hornet Man

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Good post Hornet Man. People need to realize that any gun is only as good as the shooter behind it.

Guns cause crime, like flies cause garbage.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Nope, that wasn't what I was saying. My whole point is that one should wait for an open shot and not even attempt brush crashing, period. Then it won't matter what cartridge you are using, will it? By the way, I personally witnessed a 375 RUM deflect through heavy brush enough to miss a target that was placed 10 feet behind it. Again, there is no such thing as a brush busting cartridge. You may be able to get lucky from time to time, but sooner or later the unethical behavior will bite you in the butt.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Sorry Frizzellr

You said what you said! Your Quote is below.

3030win, not trying to bust your chops but the 30-30 Win is not perfect for anything, even though most rifles chambered in 30-30 make fine door props.

And that is that. Lets not slam others on this post. One persons DOOR PROP IS ANOTHER PERSONS TREASURE.

Hornet Man

Hornet Man

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Just curious Frizz, and Jagman, have you ever missed any game or got a bad shot??

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

bigcountry, of course I have. Either you learn from your mistakes or you are forced to repeat them.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

I would never try and shoot through brush, too much of a risk. But what if you hit it by accident? I beg to differ, but I think a 170 grain bullet won't deflect as much as a 90 grain from a 243, 223, ect.

Guns cause crime, like flies cause garbage.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

See what you started visitor!

Let me get this straight...A large, heavy, round-nosed, slow-moving projectile will deflect the same amount as a small, light, pointed-nose, fast-moving projectile.

I have a problem with that. Kinda like dump truck vs. porshe...which one can run over more trees?

I'll take my chance with the dump truck. Not that trees get in my way...

BUCKGOBBLER WANNABE

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

I wish I could refer to the exact publications and their dates............but I have read at least a dozen articles where brush-busting was the point of the article. In each and every one there was no pattern that could be established. Lighter, thinner more frangible bullets were not found to be more or less deflect-able than big, ponderous and heavy.
I have no personal experience with shooting through brush. But the articles I have read were all written by respected staff writers with more than as few rounds under their belt and the tests were conducted under pretty strict guidelines.
I guess the arguement will never be settled,........... but we all seem to agree that shooting through brush is a bad idea.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

There's a large article by Rob Lucas in the 2001 Gun Digest. The best bush cartridge was the 404 Jeffrey. The 30-30 had equal results with the 280 Remington, 7mm Remington, 30-06 in 150 gr,(2 out of 6 shots) but it was better than the .243 (1 out of 6 shots). The most hits that a bullet weighing 100 gr or less made in the center of the target was 1 out of 6. The most hits a bullet weighing 400 gr or more was 5 out of 6. The article doesn't recommend any round for use in brush because shooting in brush is a crap shoot.

Dan O.

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

AMAZING!

The kid wanted to know what the best gun would be for him to start off with.

A 243 would be the most ideal beginers rifle.

I have been hunting with mine sense I was a kid, it hasn't failed me and will knock down any deer at 150yrds. Twenty years strong and still hits the spot!

KEEP HUNTING THE GREAT OUTDOORS & GOD ALIVE, PASS IT ON!

RE: Whitetail Deer Rifle
 

Good debating, though.

Never take game shots unless you are presented with a clear and open shot.

KEEP HUNTING THE GREAT OUTDOORS & GOD ALIVE, PASS IT ON!