Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

I'm getting down to the nitty gritty on my custom gun, and need some advice. Here is whatI havealready decided on: new 116 drop magazine version Savage action (blueprinted) aluminum pillar and glass bedded to McMillan stock, and match grade .284 stainless barrel from either Krieger, Lilja, or Shilen. Chambered to 7MM Rem Mag (I know not real exotic, but ohh well). Now heres where I need help. I want a fairly heavy barrel (IE #4 or #5 contour) and will have McMillan weight the stock to balance the gun. I figure the stock should way just about what the barreled action weighs, correct?

So:
I'm shooting for a finished weight of9-9.25lbs (without scope), am I in danger of creating a barrel heavy monster with the contours listed???
Barrel length... 24",25", or 26"???
Twist.... stay with 9.5" to 1 or something else (BTW... 140-160 grainers)???
Number of grooves??? Huh? Does it really matter? Whats the standard???

Any opinions on the barrel makers above? I know Krieger cut-rifles his barrels, a possible benefit. I've heard good things about Shilen as well and they are very helpful on the phone. Lilja seems to be very state of the art and technical, but I don't know anyone shooting their barrels.

I've gotta be making a decision by the first of next week, so thanks in advance for your help

Zac

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

go to shooter service an take a look at pac-nor barrels the people I know at the range love these barrels. sound like a nice gunyou are building keep usposted on how it shoot good luck

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Anyone of the three you mentioned will provide you an excellent barrel.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

I wasn't very happy with my last Krieger. It was ok. Shot ok, but much rougher than I was used too. I highly suggest a Lilja or Hart at this point.Even Shilen does a good job.Also, its your gun, whats the reasoning behind the savage action? For a full out custom, many more options for you that are well proven in the custom world.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

bigcountry, I chose the Savage for a couple of reasons, although I'm not adamant about using one. 1) NOT cast 2) drop magazine 3)reasonably priced
I looked at remington but was unimpressed and couldn't locate a DM version in stainless. Montana actions seem to be pretty rough and again no DM. etc and so on....
What did you have in mind bigcountry?? BTW, I have heard some others say the same thing about the newer kriegers, Lilja is where I'm leaning. Any advice on twist, contour etc?
Zac

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Custom Shooter? Lilja

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

I vote Lilja 3 groove. I am having two custom guns being built with Lilja barrels. One is a 25-284 just about done. The second isa 270 UM improved. I have read that the Lilja 3 groove fouls less than the others. Also Lilja claims there is a velocity gain with the 3 groove over the others. How much? Who knows. Most guys I read that have them say they saw no velocity gain, but noticed significant less fouling.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

I think my mauser 98 has a Douglas barrel, my uncle built it for me, anyways it is 24" chambered in 30-06 and it will touch holes at 100 yards. I only paid $65 for it a few years ago.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Zac, find you a good Gunsmith with a small shop withbarrel
making equipment. Most shops today are backed-up with work
and don't have much time for quality control. I have used Hart
before they got really big, but today is not like the old days.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Elkhntr04, I called Lilja and was told that they don't offer the 3 groove in the .284 barrels [&:], at least notyet.

Rebel, I completely agree... I would LOVE to find a small, well qualified, trustworthy gunsmith in my area, unfortunately I don't know of one. (At least not that I would trust). So, I'm stuck shipping guns all over the country to get the work donewith the quality I expect.

What twist sinceLilja doesn't dohalves? 1 in 9" or 1 in 10"? Any disadvantagewith a 1 in 9 with lighter bullets?

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Zac, wait tillRoscoe logins-in on the forum, he's a gunsmith in
Colorado, I beleive.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Zac, Man that is to bad. They will be very soon. My gunsmith has developed his own line of rounds and strictly uses Lilja for them. I know he has .257, 6.5, .277, and soon he is adding a 7mm version, .300 and .338. So I suspect within a few months he will have them going. I can ask my smith for a exact date.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Rebel, have you used Roscoe for custom work before?

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Zac, no I have'nt, buthe can recommend one close to you.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Great! Thanks Rebel

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

It's possible to get a bad barrel from any good barrel manufacturer. I have had really good luck with Krieger. They are cryo frozen and profiled before they are shipped. Single point cut. Big Country - if you got a lemon from Krieger, call them - odds are they will replace it. Hart and Liljaare also very good. I haven't gotten a good Shilen in about two years. Don't know what is going on there . . .

And there is a little knownbarrel maker, who shall remain nameless, that has a little one man shop in the mountains that I have gotten a few barrels from in the past year. The first one, after threading and chambering - and firing ten break in shot, shot a 1/4" group with the first five bullets that went through it :D

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Roskoe, any suggestions on a gunsmith in my neck of the woods?

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

ZAC exactly what kind of rifle are you building other then a very heavy rifle? What is its purpose?

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

I agree Roskoe. Seen many a good Krieger. But if you look thru it with a borescope, you can see the single point cutting lines. I thought that might had something to do with its copper fouling. Even after 400 rounds from a 300RUM, you could still see the distinct cuts from the single point work. And with a borescope still see the copper in there after scrubbing my heart out or 2 or three overnight applications of wipe out.

I sold it off. It shot well, but didn't want to get into this arguing match that my gunsmiths ream job was the cause of copper fouling.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

oldelkhunter, This gun will primarily be my deer gun, although I won't officially limit it to that alone. I'm aiming for right around 9 lbs unscoped, plus scope and rings should come to approx. 10 lbs. Some might think its too heavy, but for the limited walking I do while deer hunting , it will be fine.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

You have been listening to Bigcountry too much. He likes carrying around those field artillery pieces:D At the very best your limiting yourself to strictly short distance walking stand hunting for deer. I picked up a Sendero last year that was very accurate but after hunting with that for a week it went by the wayside and fastg.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Zac and yes it would be nice to find a local gunsmith that does good work but sometimes it is not doable. I am sure some of the gunsmiths that respond here can give you a good lead. As far as barrels go the only negatives I have heard or expereience have been with Shilen. Every other brand has worked out well. Not familiar with Krieger at all though.

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

touché, oldelkhuter... I don't think the gun is what will do the limiting, rather the shooter!! Just for the heck of it I pulled my grandfathers old sporterized 1903A3 (read: my next project) and weighed it; 24" sporter barrel, rough monte carlo walnut stock, leather military sling, and burris 3x9x40 scope. Weight = 9.75lbs

Amazing, how did 3 generations of men (grandfather, father and 8 years ago myself) manage to lug that thing around a mountain at 9,000 ft. Simple, we were in shape and we didn't know any better. I classify 3 groups as having a legitimate need for a "light" rifle: youth, women, and shall we say the "over the hill". Aside from those groups, the rest of us should shape up!!

I also checked barrel weight with a calculator from Lilja's website. A #2 contour .308-caliber stainless barrel at 24" weighs 2.6 lbs. A #4 contoured barrel stainless in .308 weighs 3.1 lbs and #5 comes in at 3.5 lbs.So at the most your looking at an extra pound of gun weight. I bet I could sneek an extra pound of weight in your pack and you'd never notice it.... unless of course you knew it was there, then it would bug the heck out of ya!!

As far as shootability, I can't think of one advantage a light weight gun has over a 9-10 lb gun... If you know of one, please, I'm open to new ideas... Heavier gun = steadier shooting, IMO

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Let's see first you wanted the stock to weigh as much as the barrelled action, a rough estimate of your barrelled action should be about 6 lbs ..so the stock filled with lead will weigh 6 lbs for a total of 12 lbs. Then you said it was a stand gun and now you go on a discourse about carrying a gun at 9000 feet and how 3 generations of your family did that and it never bothered them in the least.

What do you say about a guy that has a 284 winchester and a 358 Winthat shoots ragged one hole groups and they both weigh 5 lbs with a scope ? Everytime I walk into his gun store and ask him about his rifles he happens to pull out the business cards with these groups on it. Or a guy with a 6 1/2 lb 308 that shoots under 1/2 with handloads? that would be me BTW. There is such a thing as a happy medium ..You not I mentioned light rifle ..in my view 8-9 lb rifle scoped is the best weight for all around use. But nevertheless if you choose to carry around a 10 lb gun your doing it because you choose to do it not for any real potential gain Like I said before it is a specialized rifle at the very best..

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

First of all, I never said I wanted the barreled action to weigh as much as the stock... I simply asked what people thought it would take to balance the gun.

You asked me what the PRIMARY use for the gun was going to be, and I toldyou. I used the example of the 1903A3 simply to help illustrate a point.

I never said you or anyone else couldn't shoot a light weight gun superbly, I only said that other things being equal, a heavier gun is steadier. So what if someone has a business card with a great group on it? Does this mean that shooter shoots a lightweight better than a medium/heavy weight? BTW, I completely agree that there is a happy medium..... and that being said, 8.5-9.5 lbs is about right. I don't think anyone would argue that the weight of the average rifle has gone way down in the last 20-30 years and I am merely suggesting that the trend is only a trend and eventually people will realize that giving up a little weight wasn't the quick fix they thought it was.

BTW... factory remington magnum barreled action with floormetal and bolt weighs 5lbs 4oz, so 6lbs with bulkier barrel is about right...

RE: Barrel Manufacturers.... Suggestions?
 

Zac - I really don't know of a gunsmith I could recommend in your area. You may have to spend some time researching reputations. Just remember - every gunsmith has built a few rifles that won't shoot. This should be a very small number, though.

I tend to lean toward the 10 lb. rifles as well. Not that a light rifle can't shoot good groups. But a heavier gun is a lot steadier under field conditions when your adrenelin is up. The Sendero is a pound or twotoo heavy for me - a #5 contour works out about right.