stubblejumper

I say that if the 7mm remmag is so close to the 06 then why have a 30-06.

As to the bullet design,the same bullet designsare available in 7mm and .308".There are no special bullet designs that make either cartridge superior to the other.

So does senority make a cartridge kill game any deader?Does it improve theballistics in any way?Do you think a deer or elk is impressed by the senority of a cartridge?

James B

I have had at least five of each. I could see no need for both so I kept the 30-06. I prefer the heavier bullets when I get into game bigger than deer. I tried them boith for twenty years or so. Since I tried the 280 I have nio need of the 7 Mag and seldom use the 30-06 either. In big Bear country I would carry the 30-06 Pump as I have for 25 years.

Scott Gags

30% more powder in a 7MM to do the same thing as an 06.
I was basing my comparison on the Max Load values from my reloading manuals. The highest 06 chargeI found was 64 grains MRP and the largest 7 MM Remmington charge I found was 82.5 H870. 64 x 1.30 = 83.2. Maybe a teeny streach but I was alway taught to round up.

TerryM

When making comparisons about case capacity at least use the same powder to compare the 2 rounds. There are very real differences in volume of different powders which leads me to think that you probably don't handload. Getting back to your 06 vs 7mag post I think you take way too much magazine and brochure ballistic data as gospel. The reality is that a 7 mag will shoot a bit flatter, have a bit more energy (especially at longer ranges) and penetrate as deep as a similar 30 cal bullet in the 3006. Is the difference drastic? No its not but the same can be said of a .270-.280-30-06 and yet they all have thier fans. Enjoy your 3006, it will handle everything you are likely to hunt but stop trying to validate your preference by knocking the 7mm mag.

monarchoutdoors

150 grain scirocco 7mm mag

stubblejumper

delete

stubblejumper

To prove this point I am posting data from the Nosler reloading guide #4.

Using reloader 22 for 165gr loads for the 30-06
max 63gr -3002fps

using reloader 22 for 160gr loads for the 7mmremmag
max 63gr-3058fps.

In other words the 7mmremmag produced more velocity with the same amount of the same powder.Since the ballistic co-efficient is much higher for the 7mm bullet,the velocity advantage will increase with distance making iteven more efficient.Just proving that if you choose the right loads,you can make the data appear to show what you want it to as you did with the 30-06 load that you keep quoting.

Scott Gags

30% more powder. It is very difficult to compare the same powder at case limit because the cartridges use different burn rates. The loading density of most rifle powders usually only vary one to two grains. In my opintion the 7 MM only seems to have a real trajectory advantage when using lighter bullets.

Scott Gags

30% more powder. The comparison you are using RL22 is a little off base. Wasit notyou that that said "case limit pressure limit" in an earlier post for a fair comparison. Yet you make a comparison with RL22 which is way to slow burning for the 06 especially with a 165 grain bullet. You hit the case limit and were no where near your pressure limit in the 06. Who is trying to "make the data appear the way you want it to".
My data is simply putting the 3006s best foot forward for a comparison with the 7 MM. I have seen 1700+ hits on this topic and have yet to see a 7 MM handload or factory load exceed the 180 Grain Barnes performance. All I hear is the numbers are false. Well all the numbers are equally false 06 or 7MM and anyone that thinks they are going to match those number in a hunting rifle are going to be dissappointed.

stubblejumper

I did say pressure limit but you added case limit yourself now that you feel that it may be to your advantage to do so.However ,that 30-06 load using r-22 produced over 100fpsmore velocity than any other powder listed in the nosler manual for a 165gr bullet fired out of the 30-06.Check it out for yourself.How is that not being fair to the 30-06?


That should make you a little suspicious as to the credibility of the data provided.The fact that no other load even approaches those numbers makes one wonder why.

You haven't offered any verification in the form of chronograph results that you have witnessed yourselfto prove otherwise.


If the velocitynumbers that you quote can't be produced in a hunting rifle,they are meaningless numbers that shouldn't be used in a comparison.By the way a load does not care if the rifle used to test it is a hunting rifle or a target rifleor a test barrel.Hunting rifles can produce velocities just as high as any other gun with the same qualityand length of barrel.My own rifles have match grade barrels by manufacturers such as hart,kreiger,pac-nor,mclennon and gaillard and havechambers cut to minimumdimensions so they do producevelocities that are equal to velocities posted in the manuals.I have chronographed severalloads that did produce theposted velocity listed for the7mmremmag and 30-06loads listed in the nosler manual.As such these are real worldvelocities thathave meaning and should be the velocities that we use for comparison.