Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

I stopped in at the gun shop today. The owner is a good friend of mine, and wanted to show me something. He informs me, "have I got a deal for you." He then pulled out a Ruger M77 MkII target rifle. It is chambered in 6mm PPC. He has the rifle, rings, reloading dies, and 200 empties. It also has an aetec scope on it. He will sell it all to me for $500.

The info I have found looks pretty good. It can push a 75 gr bullet at 3200 fps. Should I buy this, or keep looking for another 6mm? Shots will be kept under 300 yards, and will be used on yotes. I have never used any 6mm rounds, so I have these questions on them. From what I can tell, it is a great price. But I have never really heard anything on the PPC cartridges. Only that they are used by benchrest shooters, and are based on the 220 Russian. I don't even know how hard it is to find brass for it.

My reasoning for the 6mm is, it gets awfully windy out here in the afternoon. And those 22 slugs get thrown around a lot. Just looking for something to work a little better. Thanks.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Making a new elk rifle there are ya??? :D

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

It is a very good deal if you want the 6mm PPC. A caliber like the 243 will let you get a number of factory loads, but if you only reload than it is a very good deal. I reload for all of my rifles so it wouln't matter to me.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Elk rifle, nope. I would love to go elk hunting, but I don't see that happening.



I am going to go pick it up in the morning and take it to the range. He has 50 rounds loaded up, and is going to let me "test drive" it. So, I will get a better idea of if it is something I want. The only Ruger's I have owned have been number 1's. So, I don't even know about their bolt guns. As far as the cartridge goes, I don't mind reloading for it, if it is worth the trouble. I didn't know if anyone had any personal experience with it, or had any info. This gun was bought new in 1993 or 1994 and has had less than 500 rounds put through it. And it looks to be in 100% condition. Thanks for any info

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Lyman consisers it the most accurate cartridge ever developed and it holds many bench rest records. I had one built some years back. One thing to remember, it will PROBABLY not shoot well with bullets heavier than 80 grains because of the twist rate. However if thats ok with you then I think its a deal. Good Luck.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

I have a ruger mk11 in 6mm ppc would not trade it for nothing. with 100gr bullets of the bench at 200 yards .77 5 shot groups good price buy it.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Go with a .243, specially if you reload, specially if you dont. You can buy .243 ammo anywhere. factory 55gr ballistic tips that shoot right at 4000 fps.
Factory 85 gr'ers shooting at 3300 +fps.
but you know I'm biased.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

It would be the last gun you'd ever buy, want, orrr need!!!

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

6mm= .243 correct?

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

You would be correct. 6mm is .243 caliber.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Heres what one guy says about the ppc.




6mm PPC
Chances are the 6mm PPC has never killed a single deer, and it most definitely ranks near the bottom of the heap among varmint hunters. It doesn’t shoot as flat as a banjo string, and it doesn’t deliver gobs of energy downrange, make a lot of noise, or pound one’s shoulder to a pulp. The 6mm PPC is anything but cheap to shoot; last time I looked, cases were selling at 75 cents each, and they still had to be fine-tuned before being used. Even though Americans Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell created the little cartridge, it is foreign to most American shooters. On top of all that, while the 6mm PPC has been around for over 20 years not a single American ammo manufacturer has chosen to load it. What the 6mm PPC has done and continues to do is break more world accuracy records in registered benchrest shooting than any other cartridge, and it shows no sign of slowing down. When firearms correspondents of the future write about such things, the 6mm PPC will be mentioned most often as the accuracy cartridge of the 20th century.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

In the "Handloader's Digest/1996" There is a article "The 6mm PPC In The Field" by Sam Fadala, who states, "The most accurate cartridge in the world is the 6mm PPC." Good luck.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

I think it sounds like a super deal. The only drawback to the 6mm PPC is cost of brass. It ain't cheap. But then again it is an accuracy cartridge, not a barn burner, so the brass should last a long time, as well as the barrel. I remember when it was first introduced and Rick Jamison of Shooting Times Magazine proclaimed it to be the most accurate factory rifle and ammo he had ever tested. (Of course, it was a Sako rifle with Sako factory ammo, so I am not sure just how "factory" it was, if you get my drift). Midway wants $64.99 for a box of 100 Lapua .220 Russian cases which can be necked up for the 6mm PPC. Probably time consuming and expensive, but from what I have read, the accuracy potential borders on unbelievable. Ed Matunas reported firing "8 different 10 shot groups at 100 yards with a Sako single shot rifle and Sako factory ammo, all small, ragged holes of 1/4" or smaller." He then claimed that some his reloaded cases provided groups half that size. (Straight from the Nosler Reloading Guide 5th Edition, Page 115).
If you decide you don't want it, let me know. If your buddy offers me the same deal, color it sold.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: longrifle1000

I stopped at a gun store yesterday here in MI and they had a used Ruger #1 w/ heavy bbl. in 6mm PPC. I'd say 75 - 80% condition. They said it's a real tack driver but it could use some cosmetic work.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Well I went and shot it this morning. The best five shot group I got at 100 yards was just over 3/4". But, I suspect playing with the load and bullet might change that. These were just thrown together yesterday, and are basically starter loads. The trigger seemed a little rough to me, considering it is a target rifle. It broke at 4 1/2 pounds, but was very rough. If it was smooth, it would have been ok.

I have not made a decision. I told him to put it on the shelf and I would think about it. If I decide I want it, and he still has it, I'll buy it. But it certainly didn't blow my skirt up. I really thought I would like the Ruger better than that.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

I'd tell a lot of lies to git it off'n my hands too.

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RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

You could spend a little money on this gun and upgrade it to something a little more practical for field use. As it is, the 6MM PPC is a paper punching - maybe prairie dog killing - rifle. It usually comes with a 1:14 twist, which is good for bullets up to maybe 85 grains. It also has a .445 bolt face, which is in between the .243 and the standard .223 bolt. I would think for around $125, you could get it converted to something like .243 or 6MM Remington. Or maybe a 6MM-284. But now you would have $625 in the gun - and for that, you could just buy a Ruger 77V in .243 . . . .

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

A 6MMPPC that shoots 100 grain bullets is possible but rare. The 6MMPPC has a 1 in 14 twist compared to 1 in10 for the 243 and 6MM Remington. That twist is to slow to stabalize all 100 grain bullets and was the reason that the 244 Rem. (Renamed 6MM REM) failed while the 243 Win was a success. The 6MMPPC is a 243 caliber but uses only about half the powder charge of the 243 casing. Thus the 243 will develope an additional 400-550 fps using the same bullet weight. The PPC was developed for target shooting and makes a good varmit round. The 243 and 6mm Rem as well as the 240 Weatherby were made to be dual purpose varmit/medium game cartridge. I limit the 243 to varmits as well. However thats because I had less than ideal success with the 6's as deer rifles. When that happens you get sour on a cartridge and its hard to change an opinion based on bad expierence. I had problems with it that I have not had with the 25's.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

James - I thought the .244 Rem originally had a 1:12 twist.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

I think it did. It was either 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. My memory isn't what it used to be. Anyway it was to slow and allowed the 243 to blitz it even though its a better cartridge hands down.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Well, James B, the Reloading Bench lists the original twist at 12. If Remington would have seen that as a deer cartridge from the get-go, perhaps the momentum would have gone otherwise. The casings are certainly different. If I had a need for 6, I would go to the 6mm Rem.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

being hypocritical again ?

So is it better cartridge hands down or is it a matter of opinion cause they are very close in performance ?
Shakes his head and walks away.............

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Everything is a matter of opinion. That should be pretty obvious by the varity of answers to any questions ask on this forum. The 6MM has more powder capacity than the 243. To some 150 fps is important. If so then the 6MM is a better rifle when it comes to fps. Or the velocity which is so important to you. to me 100-150 fps with a bullet that small does not make much difference. In the field on game, I doubt one would notice the difference so you see it is a matter of opinion. At 400 yards or so you would brobably see 100 lb ME difference from the extra 100-150 fps. In the end, on paper there is a difference anyone can see. On an animal, probably not.

You will decide that the 243 is better so there again its a matter of opinion. We all have one and mine is as good as yours.:D I am now shaking my head and I am glad you are walking away.;). I bet however that you will be baaaaaack.

Let me go one step farther here and end this debate between you and I on the 6MM's for deer. I had poor luck with them that I didn't have with the 25's on up. Period. It is my opinion and ONLY MY OPINION, that they are not deer rifles. Many use them and I sold many of them when I had my gun shop and some liked them and some traded up to bigger guns. I think that that anyone who wants to use a 243 should do so and I am sure that many will. Thats their business and if in their opinion its a good deer rifle, then great. Have at it. I don't like them and I won';t use them unless for some odd reason I had to. Nothing will probably ever change my mind or yours so I won't debate this issue any longer. They are a sour spot to me. Always will be barring some great new development in bullets. Even then the other caliber would benifit as well and there would still be a lot of better big game rifles IMO than the 243. IMO there are a lot of better rifles for deer and I will use them.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

First off you'd better check to see if this is the PPC that uses the factory "SAKO" issued brass or one that uses the .220 Russian brass..they are "NOT" one on the same....the factory SAKO brass is slightly different from the custom brass used by most bench guns...the neck diameter of the vast majority of them is .262...that brass will not even chamber in a custom throat..it's too big and will cause all kinds of pressure problems. Be very careful with this issue...you may cause alot of damage to you and your firearm...either way it's a good buy..just make SURE which version it is...

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

The twist in the .244 that I had (a 722) was 1:12, and would stablilze some 100 grain bullets. The .244/6mm failed mainly because the gun writers said it wouldn't stabilize ANY 100 grain bullet, and that you needed that heavy a bullet to kill deer humanely. Remington loaded a 90 grain CoreLokt in the .244 cartridge box and it killed deer just fine. I've always wondered it it was a conspiracy amoung the writers, or if Remington was so inept at marketing that they never forced the gunwriters to tell the truth.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

If I was betting I would put my money on poor support from Remington. I had one that shot the 100 grain Hornady RN pretty well.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Heres a test on the twist myth between the .244 and the .243.


http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/shooting/article/0,19912,540468,00.html

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Another opinion. However his opinion I place a high value on. I have written him many times with questions and he always answers them. He developed the 260 and is a strong supporter of the 280 and a big supporter of the 250 Savage. One of his favorite custom rifles for deer is a 250 Savage. He stepped into Jack O'Corrors shoes quite a few years back.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

Wow - that was a great article. And 100% consistent with my experience so far. My 6MM-284, despite the 300 or so fps increase in speed over the .243, was still unable to stabilize the 107 Sierra or the 105 A-Max with its 1:10 twist. I rebarreled the gun with a 1:9 twist back in January and it now shoots both of those bullets really well.

RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
 

My Rem. VLS.243 came with a 1-9 1/8" twist, thought that was pretty cool. 2 1/2 lb trigger pull too.