Frankenfish
 

Well we now have the stinking things (Snake heads) in the Susquehanna river in PA. 35 of them have been caught between Conawingo dam and the Holt wood dam. Not good for our native fish, small mouth, cat fish Crappies etc. It is illegal to release them back into the water if you catch one in PA you must kill them by law. I suspect it will not be long before they get above the Safe Harbor dam. What is the matter with people releasing these stinking all mouth and no head trash where they don't belong, they don't belong in this country period.

I'm just waiting for V to show up....:popcorn:


-Jake

I have READ that they are a tasty fish to eat. Not that's there's anything good about invasives.... But at least like with hogs, they could eventually prove to have value as a sport fish and to eat.

-Jake

I saw a show about fishermen and Snake heads a couple of years ago where they held tournaments in bodies of water that held them and that state was encouraging people try them because they were good to eat. They are a food fish where they come from. Problem is you cannot catch them fast enough to get rid of them. When you have them they are here to stay.

maybe its time to start having more bounties on things like these things and hogs and such, where there numbers are out of control and getting worse
I would have to sort of think, paying folks a reward or bounty, is cheaper than the long term damages they will do, and irreversible things they can kill and wipe out!

I know its not a perfect deal, but it sure might make more folks help out in solving these issue's

I'd bet these fish would make good fertilizer?? could be sold after collecting at places and sold or given away as such?

just food for thought here>

a s I think we need more possible solutions, than just folks complaining about things

were becoming a society that seems to know all the problems, but doesn;t solve many any more!
too much fighting between sides to get much done, and just more and more problems coming about!

Bounties have never worked to eliminate unwanted species. In fact, some species like the coyote actually increase reproduction when they are pressured by hunters. All bounties do is take money from game and fish agencies and put in the pocket hunters, many of which would not even bother to hunt the species the bounties were paid on if not for the bounty.

I will highly disagree, there is almost NO stronger motivator than money to get folks to do anything
and this excuse you give is what SOME game depts always say, as a way to not have to do any more work, or give out any funds
you use coyotes as am example

I call BS< there(not on them breeding more), but on numbers getting higher, since the bounties have been gone, more and more folks NOW see them than EVER!


you say Bounties DON"T work
look back at history better, buffalo
s?? almost extinct, due to bounties on them
as with many other species

current PROOF< is look at FL, and Python's, an invasive species going wild down there and bounties and price tags on them have got a LOT of folks hunting them that would NOT be if not!
face it, money motivates folks

I am NOT saying its a perfect system and will get TONS of folks out helping, but it WILL motivate many.

and if the point of things is TRYING to get rid of invasive species, a reward is ONE way of getting things going in the right direction
as again,
$$ motivates

depts need to find new ways to MAKE money if need be
as I said, turn then fish into fertilizer, or sell in some other way
YES ,more work for the game dept workers, BOO HOO!
sorry, life isn;t always fun and easy!

but having invasive species taking over water ways and ruining other wildlife in them, is NOT very good job of the game and fish dept people that are supposed to be keeping this stuff in Check
NO??
it IS THERE JOB< to enforce and protect wildlife and fish, NO?

SO< more work, more money?
if that is what is needed, it needs to be done!
doing Nothing sure ain't going to help anything here!
MY solution isn't perfect by any means, its JUST ONE option that can MAYBE help get rid of MORE than what's going on now!

IF the GAME Dept foesn't think many will do so, they shouldn;t worry about the costs!

You can highly disagree all you want but you will be wrong! PA had a bounty system on hawks and owls and foxes for years. All that happened was that the PGC spent a lot of money and the animals and birds that they were trying to eraticate were still present. In fact the unlawful submission of birds and animals from other states was rampant. Bounties do not work, period. They just make people think they are doing something.

I really wish you would get off your HIGHT and MIGHTY Horse
I am NOT wrong, you are
the facts are simple and not made up
rewards and bounties DO work and are used in countless things today for this reason
rewards for tips on crime, finding things, are ALL proven methods that WORK to get help when others other wise maybe wouldn;t!

the facts are again, PROVEN< that many things that had bounties on them throughout history were killed off to the point of becoming extinct or some have! and many are close and why so many are now protected!
(and there are REWARDS to those that give TIPS leading to arrests of folks that still KILL THEM)


this is a FACT, I am NOT wrong
look it up if you think I am wrong before calling someone something that is FALSE!
I gave you FACTUAL examples

so, maybe before you go being a EX GAME WARDEN that knows it all, look back at your former employers history
you wish to TRY and use , the old bounty crap on hawks and owls and foxes, which was THERE TO GET RID OF SMALL GAME KILLERS!
trying to save the pheasants mostly!
when the problem wasn't really ALL predator, heck the major player in there loss wasn't even them

YET< TONS of folks DID shoot and kill hawks and owls and foxes when there was a reward /bounty on them'
so that is a FACT< it DID work
it got folks to shoot and kill hawks/owls and foxes!
or do you believe it did NOT do this??

NO it didn;t save our pheasants
that was a issue with many other problems That quite frankly the PA game commission dropped the ball on BIG time
going from a top 5 state to almost zero wild pheasants, is a SHAME!
the hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars WASTED on pen raised birds, known to NOT make it on there own at super HIGH death rates if NOT shot by hunters!

was a LOT of wasted money, that could have been spent on BUILDING habitat that could support them, acquiring more land that could be shaped into this habitat too!

talk about wasted $$
well, never hear any wardens ever stand up and admit this was a failure on there part!, and trust me been to enough meetings and asked and heard the excuses they give!

or talks about the damages done to PA's forest, from MAJOR over browsing left go for far too long before anyone seemed to notice!
now were having grouse issue's
after a more than a decade of hunters and folks saying there numbers are WAY down
the PA GC< finally is admitting there is an issue??
its SLOW reactions like this that are the problem!

things get too far gone, before any REAL actions seem to ever happen!!
this is HOW invasive species take HOLD of places
waiting TOO long to take action!!

and before you go thinking I am a PA GC hater, I am NOT, I am very GLAD there , there!
they have done countless GREAT things since there start up, I am personal friends with MANY that work for the PA GC< both current on the job and retired and have even worked with them countless times in my yrs!

but there is NO denying the FACTS of things they have FAILED AT too!
and the FACT your EX warden, makes you IMO< have strong feelings to ALWAYS defend them!, over looking maybe some things
and thus why your so QUICK to call me out at times!, when you have NO honest right to TELL me I am WRONG, when I gave facts to prove I was NOT!

I will never be one to back down from a BULLY., which you are trying to be here IMO!

ignoring FACTS to say YOUR RIGHT!!


nothing motivates like MONEY< but MAYBE FEAR!!
the two strongest motivation tools in life period!

I have talked with our biologists about them. So far we haven't had any here in Vt but like all other invasive species they seem to find their way into other bodies of water.This particular fish has the ability to migrate from one body of water over short pieces of land to an adjacent stream thereby going from one lake or pond to another. Most places in southern NY state where they have showed up were killed off with roetenone along with every living fish in that body of water. After the pond or lake was fish free they can stock and re-establish the native fishery. These invasive fish are one of the most feared by biologists. They often start from some brain dead person emptying their aquarium into a body of water. You can't catch them all to eliminate them. They reproduce too fast to eliminate them and they eat voraciously so growth rate is phenomenal..

For as far as I know we don’t have any snakeheads here. But we do have some brains dead people releasing northern pike and largemouth bass in some of our waters. It’s about the same idea to us who enjoy salmon and trout fishing. Now one of our lakes has mill foil which is very much dreaded here. Those areas of the lake has been shut down completely to fishing and boating in until they can figure a way to get rid of it. It’s part of the St. Croix River and they are asking if anyone sees any of it elsewhere to report it immediately..

Sorry you think that someone telling the truth is a bully, however I will accept the title because being right is not a bad thing. Denying the truth is a bad thing. I suspect I know a whole lot more about the days of bounties than you do. You can try all you want to deny that bounties did not work in the past and will not work in the present, however you will be wrong. I am quite surprised that you would resort to the bully label when told you are wrong,I never took you for a snow flake!

your the snow flake
bounties and REWARDS do work
and they are FACT's proven to do so!

'but I get it, your too ignorant to admit your wrong.

the PA game commission still uses them NOW< in there TIPS program too by the way!
as again along with a ton of other resources that use them with success!

the bounties did exactly what they were designed to to in PA< with the game commission'
they got people to shoot and kill hawks, owls and foxes, how ignorant are you to NOT admit this happened

as a FACT there are still countless folks in PA< that still feel hawks and owls should be killed due to the use of doing so,
ONLY reason folks NO longer still shoot and kill hawks and Owl's are they are protected species, and why is that??

your rightness is NOT immune to FACTS,its sad you don;t wish to admit your WRONG!
but that is something MANY wardens IN PA, have issue's with!

Snakeheads are a very popular food fish in Southeast Asia. And that is why they Asians illegally released them here. It is a fish they were familiar with and they liked to catch and eat. But they spread and don't have much in the way of natural predators. For what it is worth, all species of carp are also invasive species. Not one of them is native to North America. They are from Europe and Asia and were brought here because the people from those areas liked them and they got loose into the waterways. Brown trout are another European import. And then don't forget that we Americans have also done the same thing. Look at rainbow trout, they are native to the Pacific area but that is the most commonly stocked and caught trout in the land. Stocking rainbows has resulted in serious damages to native populations of cutthroat, golden and brook trout.

Stocking invasive or non-native species has been going on for a long, long time.

Look Skippy, I have forgotten more about wildlife and wildlife management and the history of it than you will ever know. So, keep on blustering and blathering, it will not make you any more correct it just makes you look silly!

HAHA< there you go again showing your true ignorance and made up feeling of superiority!
as you have NO clue what I know or do not, so your just BELIEVING your something special, yet have NOTHING to go by but a GUESS on your side!
totally ignoring FACTS again!

and again,just refusing to admit your WRONG!

rewards have worked and DO work, its why there still used in so many ways, due to PAST RESULTS!

as do bounties, its been proven time after time it DOES work, just again, do something simple and stop acting like you KNOW IT ALL
and look back at results it has gotten on so many things!

the problem here is your missing the point and cannot separate your feelings from FACTS, and the fact your also missing the point
I NEVER said, rewards/bounties are a 100% FIX, which I am ASSUMING< you THINK I mean with this
, and aI DON"T
I have just said, rewards, bounties will HELP get rid of SOME<
HOWEVER< if you look at the PAST< when money has been used to get KILLS on animals, the results have worked 100% of the time (so much so on some animals, they have been placed on endangered species lists) to GET SOME folks to participant[pate in doing so!

this is also a FACT again, on people shooting hawks and owls and foxes in PA!
it WORKED< its GOT people to SHOOT them!


your ignorance to say other wise is amazing!!
you should really think about what your standing behind saying other wise!
you cannot be that dumb to say people DIDN:T shoot then and got paid for doing so!
when 100% without a doubt it DID happen!

I am sure you intentionally missed the art that the system was rife with fraud, in all states that had bounties., they paid as many bounties for animals and birds from other states as they did for the ones killed in their own states. All bounties did was cost a lot of money. Now I am done with this because you cannot teach anyone who will not learn and is stuck in the 50s and 60s.

NO your missing the point
the bounty did bring out folks to kill the targeted animals PERIOD< it cause deaths to them
so, it worked!
are there, will there be those that abuse a things, SURE< but you cannot say it didn;t get folks to KILL things!
if cheaters will abuse things, its on the side of those handing out the rewards.bounties to prevent this side of things
sorry you don;t like this, but its also true!
you do seem to even ADMIT it was the SYSTEM and NOT the offer of bounties that was the issue! the offer of bounties/rewards DID work 100% as it was expected to do so!

and I am NOT stuck in the 50's-60's
as again, bounties are used RIGHT NOW In places,as are rewards,
( as a example in PA in 2020 ,PA game commission offer's rewards in there tips program, due to AGAIN it works so>??)
maybe you don't understand this and maybe its YOU that are stuck in the 50-60's and crying about how it didn;t work as planned back then, on the pay outs

but there is NO debating the FACTS it caused targeted animals to be killed DUE to the bounties!
thus I am NOT wrong, YOU are when you say it doesn;t work!
the flaw again is with the pay outs, not the motivation to get the kills!
and an invasive species is I gather wanted dead in ANY and ALL states
so if your so worried about folks cheating and bringing in fish from other states, WHO cares,??
the goal should be to get rid of them or as many as possible,

some thing is better than NOTHING!
doing nothing doesn;t help and will cost $$ as well from the destruction they will have on other species and bodies of water!
maybe you miss this point as well, seems you admit you have memory issue's!

My own feeling is bounties and rewards for hunting or fishing do help but dont accomplish the goal. Pigs are invasive animals in about half the states and as far as I know unlimited killing hasn't removed them all. Nature finds a way to continue especially when an invasive only has man as its predator. It had been shown that wild pigs cant be contained and when they do escape cant be eliminated totally. These snakeheads can breath air so they can exist outside water for a period of time. Once fully grown they dont have many enemies other than man. Most of the places where they have shown biologists killed off the lake in order to remove them.

I agree to a point, I never want to see money placed on hunt able animals, its a bad road that leads to bad things

but when trying to eradicate an invasive species, I have NO issue's with a bounty or a reward on there heads
the name of the game is to kill as many as possible;to try and curb there advancement of taking hold and the steps needed to prevent this have to happen ASAP as problems are noticed

many places that have Pig?Hog issue's, have them due to things were too far gone for much help from hunters alone.
this is where sadly many depts fail, they wait too long to take action, and by the time they do, the problem is very hard to correct!

but adding an incentive of MONEY< motivates and will cause the death of more of the targeted species than just plain old ASKING ever will!
and this is why, so many agencies ,state ,federal, and the public use the offer of a reward to get help on countless things, plain and simple it works, to get folks that other wise wouldn;t get involved, involved!
its a time proven tactic!
its not perfect nor is it the single solution's to problems, but its a great tool used by many with GREAT results throughout history, thus why its still going on today !

Moderators have received a complaint from a member not involved in the discussion. Gentlemen, you can discuss the issue; argue about it and even claim the other guy is wrong. But you can't call each other names, insult the other guy's intelligence, etc. If the problem persists, I will break out my poof pen. Now play nice and argue this to the nth degree.

Taking off my moderator hat (that means anybody is free to disagree with this post after this sentence), my personal opinion is that bounties won't entirely eliminate any problem but they can help a lot. If the bounties are being paid out fraudulently, he whatever Game commission is paying the bounties out should start doing a better job of confirming the animal submitted meets the criteria. If somebody is fraudulently submitting an animal, then it should be a crime (may depend on how your state words the bounty laws) and prosecute the person. Killing all living creatures in a lake may work in some lakes but not necessarily in other water systems, such as a river. This procedure should also be a part of the solution. When any government simply says no to any possible partial solution to a problem, that agency is hamstringing their efforts to completely solve the problem.

Is this type of problem completely solvable? Probably not. It depends in part on catching people bringing illegal animals into our country and that seems to be a hit or miss proposition lately. Going back to the OP subject though, I personally think a bounty can be helpful if its' administered properly. It's like any other wildlife issue, first you study the problem and then figure out all of the proper steps to take to resolve the problem.

That's kind of where I'm at. I don't think bounties will solve everything or all of the problem(s) but I think they can be a part of the solution. Properly administered of course.

If they open up a bounty can I raise them in my pond then turn them in? Little side hustle.
:s2:

-Jake

You disturber you. ;) That might get you a visit from one of OT's co-workers.

:eek:

On a side note, I wonder if the practice of a bounty would survive in many states (including CA) that are pretty much anti-hunting anyway.

Or OT himself. He must still have contacts and knows how to investigate. Mother nature is certainly incredible. During times of poor feed many animals retard breeding as a measure to allow the herd to survive. When feed is great they often breed right out of control. I doubt bounties would fly very long here in liberal Vermont. We have tons of coyotes and many have tried coyote tournaments and were stopped from the libs. When I grew up a dead deer was shown off on the hood of a car all over town then hung up in the front yard in the elm tree. All the elms are dead now and when you fill a deer tag it is expected that it will be hung in the garage and then lower the door. My how times have changed.