How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
03-16-2005, 07:48 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 50
How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
I really don,t see to many people shooting 1 inch MOA out there at the rifle range,private or public. I sure don,t see these one holers! Now Really,How many of you are fibbing just a little? Oh, for the one hole shooters out there, you won,t have any trouble at any range shooting in the field. There must be a lot of shooters doing this,But Where?
03-16-2005, 08:29 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
Many people have fired a very small group or two in their lifetime and many of them would have everyone believe that they do it regularly.The truth is that few shooters can shoot so called "one hole groups" with any consistancy.I am one on the shooters that very seldom shoots so called "one hole groups" and I have never actually driven a tack with any firearm.I do however own several rifles with which I can regularly shoot honest 1/2" groups with off of a benchrest.
03-16-2005, 08:59 PM
#3
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 68
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
I for one have not seen very many one hole groups but I'm a little disappointed if I can't get a good rifle to shoot 1" goups consistently. I'm talking 100 yards, off sand bags with good weather conditions. I also never expect this with factory ammo, not saying it can't happen but I feel that with reloads it's a very obtainable goal.
03-16-2005, 09:26 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coralville, IA. USA
Posts: 3,802
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
One had to remember that it's not just the rifle, but it's also the shooter. I'd venture to say that there are many rifles capable of sub-MOA accuracy with the right load, if the shooter were factored out of the equation completely. If these rifles were bedded in like "rail guns" (not referring to funs that propel their projective electromagnetically) and fired with mechanical trigger pulling devices I think more rifles than not could 1 MOA or better. But benchrest shooting is not just about the guns, it's also about the marksmanship expertise of the guy pulling the trigger. If it were so easy, there'd be no such thing as benchrest competition.
That being said, I have had two varmint rifles that will easily post a sub-MOA aggregate. The M700 I just traded off wouldn't do better than 1.5MOA, which isn't bad, but it's great either. Since I wanted a rifle more suitable to western hunting (elk and mulies), I traded it off for a Tikka T3 Lite. The T3 is tested and guaranteed to shoot 5-shot groups 1" or better at 100 yards, and I hope to get it out to the range tomorrow or Friday to see what she can do.
Mike
That being said, I have had two varmint rifles that will easily post a sub-MOA aggregate. The M700 I just traded off wouldn't do better than 1.5MOA, which isn't bad, but it's great either. Since I wanted a rifle more suitable to western hunting (elk and mulies), I traded it off for a Tikka T3 Lite. The T3 is tested and guaranteed to shoot 5-shot groups 1" or better at 100 yards, and I hope to get it out to the range tomorrow or Friday to see what she can do.
Mike
03-16-2005, 09:30 PM
#5
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
Hawg you are right and you are wrong, lol. There ARE those shooters/guns out there on the range and in the woods. BUT there are alot like stubbs said, they shot a 1/2" group once and therefore the gun "is a 1/2inch shooter allday, everyday".
I have a 28 gun Browning safe that is nearly FULL of guns of which the vast majority are big game rifles. Without question the most accurate are the ones that either were full on customs or were decent guns that I had worked on by good 'smiths. The bonestock "virgins" typically will shoot around 1"-1.5" with GOOD quality ammo, proper offseason care and patience on the range (that meaning I let the barrels cool properly between shots).
The only "virgin" factory rifle I have that shoots 1/2" groups @ 100yds is my Sako/Warbird and that was after I changed too the Lazerhead (Barnes TSX). The gun would only shoot 1.5" groups with 130X bullets before that. I have a 700 30/06 that will put every shot @ 100yds into the 1" grids on my targets. It had trigger, safety and crown work as well as shoots 180 TSXs. I have had the gun since I was a kid (mid 80s) and when new it would shoot 165 Sierra GameKing BoatTails (Fed Prem) into less than 1.5" @ 100yds. Most average ammo like CoreLokts etc would do good to get under 1.75"-2" or so. My other rifles are mostly untouched and will shoot easily 1.5" with many shooting inside of that, but only after I spent some time with the guns and found loads the guns liked. You would be surprised how much difference ammo can make. As is the case with my Sako, a simple bullet change shaved 1" off the groups (the gun shoots 3.5"ers at 400yds as well).
I only have 1 true "one holer" and its a full on custom that I bought that was a personal gun of a Remington regional sales rep. Its a 700 from the Remington Custom Shop that was built in the mid 90s. Its a stainless 24" laminated 280. With either 139 SST Light Mag Hornady or 140 Trophy Bonded Fed Prem, the gun will literally bore on hole @ 100yds. But that gun was built to do such and wouldn't have left the shop if it didn't. Even my muzzleloaders (a 22" 209 Wolverine 50 and a Savage ML 10II) shoot 1.5" @ 100yds. But again I spent time finding what they liked and I NEVER shoot them hot, ALOT of muzzleloading problems stem from the fact that many shoot them to fast. A hot barrel will warm up a plastic sabot too the point that it nearly melts and consitancy with pressure goes out the window with accuracy.
Again ALL the guns and performance I am speaking of is from guns that are properly cared for (that means YEAR round) and when I shoot them from bags they are allowed to properly cool between shots. The fastest way to not only ruin a gun but to get a poor representation of a guns abilities is to crank off rounds in succession.
Patience, some basic gun knowledge and some time spent with them will surprise you what most rifles are capable of!
RA
I have a 28 gun Browning safe that is nearly FULL of guns of which the vast majority are big game rifles. Without question the most accurate are the ones that either were full on customs or were decent guns that I had worked on by good 'smiths. The bonestock "virgins" typically will shoot around 1"-1.5" with GOOD quality ammo, proper offseason care and patience on the range (that meaning I let the barrels cool properly between shots).
The only "virgin" factory rifle I have that shoots 1/2" groups @ 100yds is my Sako/Warbird and that was after I changed too the Lazerhead (Barnes TSX). The gun would only shoot 1.5" groups with 130X bullets before that. I have a 700 30/06 that will put every shot @ 100yds into the 1" grids on my targets. It had trigger, safety and crown work as well as shoots 180 TSXs. I have had the gun since I was a kid (mid 80s) and when new it would shoot 165 Sierra GameKing BoatTails (Fed Prem) into less than 1.5" @ 100yds. Most average ammo like CoreLokts etc would do good to get under 1.75"-2" or so. My other rifles are mostly untouched and will shoot easily 1.5" with many shooting inside of that, but only after I spent some time with the guns and found loads the guns liked. You would be surprised how much difference ammo can make. As is the case with my Sako, a simple bullet change shaved 1" off the groups (the gun shoots 3.5"ers at 400yds as well).
I only have 1 true "one holer" and its a full on custom that I bought that was a personal gun of a Remington regional sales rep. Its a 700 from the Remington Custom Shop that was built in the mid 90s. Its a stainless 24" laminated 280. With either 139 SST Light Mag Hornady or 140 Trophy Bonded Fed Prem, the gun will literally bore on hole @ 100yds. But that gun was built to do such and wouldn't have left the shop if it didn't. Even my muzzleloaders (a 22" 209 Wolverine 50 and a Savage ML 10II) shoot 1.5" @ 100yds. But again I spent time finding what they liked and I NEVER shoot them hot, ALOT of muzzleloading problems stem from the fact that many shoot them to fast. A hot barrel will warm up a plastic sabot too the point that it nearly melts and consitancy with pressure goes out the window with accuracy.
Again ALL the guns and performance I am speaking of is from guns that are properly cared for (that means YEAR round) and when I shoot them from bags they are allowed to properly cool between shots. The fastest way to not only ruin a gun but to get a poor representation of a guns abilities is to crank off rounds in succession.
Patience, some basic gun knowledge and some time spent with them will surprise you what most rifles are capable of!
RA
03-16-2005, 10:11 PM
#6
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 119
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
Nobody wants to say they haven't the skill to let their guns prove how well they can shoot. I can say that I need practice to get into the area where I am held back by balisitics and the gun.
03-17-2005, 12:18 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cornwall, Pa.
Posts: 1,720
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
If I take a new rifle to the range and can not group within a dime, that's the last time you will see that piece. What good is a rifle that can't punch holes at 100 yards. At 200 or longer yardages the bullets will be all over the target. May as well use a shotgun with that kind of accuracy.
03-17-2005, 01:47 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baileysville, WV
Posts: 2,925
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
Red when you say cool properly I know basically what ya mean...but just how warm is too warm when you are shooting? At what point does the barel become too hot feel wise?
03-17-2005, 06:40 AM
#9
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,345
RE: How many really shoot less than 1 inch MOA for a hunting rifle?
I could have swore I already responded to this thread.
Only have one high powered rifle. An old stock 700BDL in 22-250. With 50gr or lighter factoryammo it can put bullets in an inch all day long. That's just with a bipod off the hood of my truck. The fact that its varmint caliber might disqualify it for this discussion.
Only have one high powered rifle. An old stock 700BDL in 22-250. With 50gr or lighter factoryammo it can put bullets in an inch all day long. That's just with a bipod off the hood of my truck. The fact that its varmint caliber might disqualify it for this discussion.