Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Oh Heck hunting seasons are almost over in most places and I have to stir the pot a little since things seem to be slowing down here a bit:D

I have owned just a few MK V's and was never really really satisfied with them. For a number of reasons I just will not buy one anymore. I think they are incredibly overpriced . I have owned 2 Vanguards ..one about 15 years ago called the fiberguard(Mcmillan Stock) Vanguard action and a new Vanguard in 300 wsm. Both guns shoot better then any MK V I have owned. Why do MK V shooters and others look down on these Rifles? I have heard fit and finish is better on the MK V's but I will disagree on that as well because I haven't found that out to be true either.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Most if not all that buy the Weatherby brand are hung up on the name. I have a friend that spent a lot of $ on an Accumark topped with Swarovski glass. Is it a good setup? I suppose, but when I hold the rifle I don't get the impression that it's worth what it cost. May be just me. I'm sure you can get equal or better shooters for much less money with equal or better fit and finish. I would get a Sako over a Weatherby in that price range, personally, and would also have to look at Kimber.
The Vanguard has received a lot of bad word of mouth apparently from years past. Also, Weatherby made what I think to be is a bad decision in pulling that line out of all other shops and only selling thru WalMart. Some of my local shops were even surprised when I went in and asked about the Vanguard stating it was discontinued only to find out that it's just sold at WalMart. Most if not all also know that it's not made by Weatherby themselves so they immediately are turned off, without giving it a chance or bothering to research. Howa is now making the Vanguard series, as far as I know, and seem to be doing a decent job of it too. Don't know who made it way back when but it has left people with a bad impression of Vanguard's so they are still mostly ignored nowadays.
Talk of yesteryear affects a lot. To most, for example, if it isn't a Remington or Winchester it's not a rifle. When I first started researching and asked questions on the Tikka's I got all sorts of crap answers but no real reasons as to why they wouldn't be a good rifle. Same with Savage, except recently they seem to be turning it around. The old school hunters that are friends of mine though won't look twice at Savage, harkening back to the old days when apparently they built crap. Too bad for them as now they have good products.
Just my opinions and observations, do with them what you will.

By the way, it's "comparison". ;-)

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

No Howa has been making Vanguards forever. I actually bought both of my Vanguards at gunshops. Walmart is my ammunition source only except for 2 rifles I have purchased there in the last 35 years. The price at the gunshop on the latest one was lower then Wally Worlds making it a real sweet deal. Sub 1" groups with factory ammo and a 376 dollar rifle that next to a Ruger 77 may be the most rugged rifle one can own. It doesn't get any better then that. I laugh at Weatherby MK V owners in hunting camp anyway so I might as well continue throwing gasoline on the fire:D

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Plastic guns hehe I am not enpressed, in all the new guns. I do not have any mark5s nor have I.I do have older 77s and 700 and allso some savages.I am looking for a high gloss wood gun ,they cost a ton more than the plastic guns of any brand.
I beleave that you can get a good gun any any brand and to say one brand is junk is nuts.

MY best gun is a smith and weson 1500 in 223. It shoots well under 1 in at 100 yards ever time.

If you can kill with it ANY gun is good.:}

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Not calling the brand junk just overpriced . BTW that Smith and Wesson you own is a Howa

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Vanguards and Howas are probably one of the most underrated rifles on the markert right now. I would put them up against any of the big three (Rem, Win, Ruger).

They have made quality rifles for a long time and for a few other companies including Weatherby, Mossberg, Smith and Wesson and Howas own line. They are all the same basic rifle with only minor differences.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

I will not own another mark V as they are just too overpriced.The vanguard however is a good value for the price.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Vanguards are NOT built by Howa anymore. In the late 90s Ed Weatherby decided to move the production of these rifles back too American shores. (One of the few decisions I agree with him on since his fathers passing in 88!) The name escapes me right now, but I believe the Vanguards are built by a firm in Mass.

Originally the Mark Vs were built first by JP Sauer and Sons in Germany and then production was moved too Japan in the late 60s when a cheap Yen and a then small economy made it feasible to do so. If memory serves me correct (which it seldom does) the firm was not Howa however. I believe it was Miruko or something similar. Eventually in the 80s the production of Mark Vs was moved too our own shores.

I aint nockin the Howa built guns as they are GREAT guns and my old 25/06 Vanguard was a GOOD ONE until some lowlife decided to borrow it without asking. They are great guns and even a better gun for the price. I just think that Roy Weatherby is rolling in his grave right now since his son has "sold his soul too the devil" and gotten chummy with Wal-Mart. Perhaps from a business standpoint it was the right deal, their sales were softening for many reasons. But only time will tell I suppose.

The Mark V was Mr. Roy's baby. It made his company what it was and at a time when nothing else out there was quite as elaborate. I think to fully appreciate them I think you have to remember when "their time" was in hunting history. The Mark V was debuted in 1957 and held its esteemed position until well into the late 80s. Thats really an interesting time for big game hunting, especially in the realm of alot of the type hunters who used them. I know when I was a kid (I was born in 71) a 300 Wby Mag Mk V Deluxe was IT!!! You was SUMPIN and you didn't have to hold your head down for anything. Paying $1k for a rifle and $30-$50 for a box of shells meant that the price of admission wasn't a concern of yours. You had "arrived" lol.

Like I said, yeah they were more mystique and glam than anything physically superior. I would put my Sako up against anything that ever came out of South Gate, CA. But I give Roy Weatherby one thing that even John Moses Browning didn't have. A genius for marketing. THE greatest design in the world still isn't anything if it's not sold and marketed properly.

I'll ask you guys this, sure the Mark V might not be what it once was, but would you decline the offer if someone was willing to give you one for free tonight?
;) RA

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

RA, I could only find something on Miruku rifles, but not much, just obscure references. As for the Vanguard line, I think you may be right since I just received their catalog and they even have a sub-moa "model" now that is guaranteed to shoot as the name suggests sub-moa (duh). I doubt they would do that on something that someone else builds, but who knows nowadays. Marketing promises and engineering has to deliver.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

The production of mark V's was moved back to the states and unless the situation has changed very recently,they are being built by a contractor named SACO located in Maine.The vanguard is still made by howa as is stated below


The above quote was taken from an article found at the link below

http://www.chuckhawks.com/wby_vanguard_syn.htm



Weatherby does not manufacture their own rifles and that includes the mark V.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

I picked up a Vanguard many years ago chambered in 7-08 and fell in love with it. It has to be one of my best shooting rifles and of course, the 7-08 caliber is a terrific round. On the other hand, I've known 4 different folks who owned the Mk5s and everyone of them had serious problems. All 4 of them had the similar problem of walking as they heated up. Great first shot, but it wnt down hill from there. They all looked beautiful when taken out of the safe but they weren't much good for hunting with. As to the question if I'd take one for free!?! Of course I would, but I wouldn't give allot of money for one. (Mk 5 that is)

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

I think the Mark V is over priced also as are most Weatherby's,all you are paying for is the "NAME". I have Vanguard that shoots execelent and it cost less than 1/2 of the other WBY's...[:-]

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RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Stubbs I guess you is correct. TOLD YA my memory seldom served me correctly, reckon I had my wires crossed (my wife says I was born that way! :( )

And YES SACO in ME is the firm I was thinkin about but had them confused as to who built what. Either way the Howa built guns are VERY fine arms and I have owned them before and will likely own them in the future.

But have to disagree that a Mk V is a fitful POC. The guns are very good, very strong actions and the build quality is equally exceptional. As for the "walking when hot" that is more a symptom of the way they are built than an inherent problem with them. ANY rifle that shoots high velocity bullets through a very thinly contoured barrel will heat up very quickly. Add too that fact that the Deluxe models arent floated and you do have a tendancy to "walk" if you keep pulling the trigger. But realistically its not a consideration in a big game hunting gun, only for target or varmint shooters.

"...Pay for the name..."? Show me ANYTHING of reputation that you don't pay a premium for. Does it really cost Mercedes $100,000 to build a car that doesn't do anything a $50,000 Cadillac wont? Don't get me wrong guys, I am not saying the Mk V is THE supreme be all too the rifle world. But it's not the only overpriced gun on the market. A Sako is equally overpriced. And if you REALLY want to talk about overcharging, how about Blaser's or the recent 84% wholesale increase that Beretta passed too dealers in 04 on the Sauer 202, which effectively DOUBLED the price of the rifle overnight?

The price of an item is bared out by those who want to purchase them. Roy Weatherby charged as much as the market would bare for his Mk V and it made his company very profitable and his wallet fat.

Aint that the American way?
:D RA

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Here in Canada a sako75 is priced approximately $300 less than a weatherby accumark yet the sako must shoot 1" groups before leaving the factory.(according to the Beretta USA website)The accumark is only guaranteed to shoot 1-1/2" groups.The Beretta therefore offers a better value for the price.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

I'm shooting a 'cheap old Remington' in 300RUM, so I understand the concept of barrel heating with high velocity rounds. What I don't get in my POC Remington are rounds walking literally off the paper. It will shoot pretty true, even when it's to hot to touch the barrel. My point before was, I've only ever been around 4 Mk V's, and they all did the same thing.



I'm sorry, If I'm spending $1200-$1500 for a rifle, it's a consideration, regardless what I'm hunting.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

If you are shooting your 300ultramag when it's too hot to touch the barrel,it won't be accurate for long.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Well, my primary hunting rifle is a Weatherby Accumark in 7mm Rem. Mag. and it is topped with a Swarovsky glass.

Now, it has a semi-bull barrel and even when reasonably hot (not as hot as not being able to touch it) it still shoots 1" groups at 100 meters.

I owned several MK5's in the past and no one has ever let me down.

Overpriced? Maybe.....Good? Yes.....Reliable? For sure.....

If anybody consider a $ 500.00 Dollar rig (including scope) a realible thing, I guess they still have a lot of hunting to do and a lot of frustration to suffer when it fails in the precise moment. Remember, you only get what you pay for.....

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Very true but here in Canada an accumark sells for over $1800.A SAKO 75 for just over $1500,and a tikka t-3 for $800.The tikka costs less than half the price of the accumark and offers the same 1" accuracy requirement as the sako.You can add a ziess conquest for $800 and the mounts for less than $100 and you have still spent less than for the accumark.The vanguard offers the same 1-1/2" accuracy guarantee as the mark V for $800 which again is less than half the price of the mark V.Spending more money does not guarantee that you are getting a better product in return.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Well with scope mine should be about 700 or so and It's just as reliable as the 1000 dollar MKv's I used to buy on a regular basis. I want to help Weatherby pay the mortgage on his new building not buy it for him.:D

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

i agree with wa7mm non of the mark v's that i've owned has ever let me down.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

The same can be said for millions of rifles costing less than half as much.I have never had a gun fail in the field and that includes some very low priced guns.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

i personally believe my mark v is superior to some of the low priced rifles your refering to.maybe not to the degree of price difference.but hey wouldn't it be boring to have nothing but savages in your arsenal.i like having as many different rifles as i can afford to take to the range.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

That is why we are saying that they are overpriced.They simply don't offer enough advantage(if any at all) to justify the huge price difference.


Not if they were all very accurate rifles.Accurate rifles are never boring.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

HAY any one have a mark v for sell in 300 weatherby mag?

I am looking for one :}

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Is the Mark V really overpriced or not? Its a semi-custom AMERICAN BUILT piece. That alone is worth something aint it? Sure it could probably be $500-$1000 cheaper if it was assembled in China but would you want one then?

American products DO cost a lil more, we all know that. But whats the harm? When I hear and think "Mark V" I think solely of the beautiful wood variants, Deluxe, Custom etc... The standard Mark V Deluxe us STILL the quint-essential magnum rifle in my mind. The looks and curves are as classic as those on a 67 Stingray or a 59 Eldorado convertible. Roy Weatherby was all about PIZAZZ and "that lil sumpin" that just isn't present in the synthetic verions. The Mark V bland "also rans" in stainless and black synthetic are just like everyone elses and yeah probably dont feature enough features to compete with most others at twice the price (or do they, again they are American built when most others are either from the orient or former eastern block countries).

Too each his own I reckon, but I STILL will have a collection of Mark V Deluxes in every caliber from .224-.460 by the time the grim reaper comes calling! And for no other reason than "farts n giggles" and if I dont spend it my wife and kids will, ;)
RA

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

As I say in my previous post, maybe they are a little overpriced, but I gladly pay the overprice just to watch other guys look at any of the Mark V's I own with that little envy reflected in their eyes.....:D

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Hopefully your not like other Weatherby owners that are into high ticket items and never practice with their guns. They are probably deep down inside laughing at a fool that paid too much for a rifle.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

aw oeh be easy on him, lol ;)

I for one miss the era of GORGEOUS rifles. Now don't get me wrong, I have a majority of synthetic "hunting guns". But I likewise enjoy a beautiful creation of art with craftsmanship that is admirable. Unless you are talking about rare one off guns built mainly in Europe and a hanful of domestic producers, todays "hunting guns" are built of exotic metals and stocks that have as much eye appeal as a 50 year old cast iron skillet.

The Mark V Deluxe STILL draws looks. Pulling one out of a safe in a room full of admirers is like pulling a Ferrari into the parking lot... all eyes are upon it! And what about the Mark V Crown Custom? WOW I drool and get a stiffy just thinkin about one. They are kinda like havin a 6' tall blonde with BIG hooters in a outfit cut clear too THERE, tons of makeup, high heels that make her wobble and more curves than Road Atlanta with that set of bedroom eyes that stop traffic. :):):) If Hugh Hefner has any rifles I suppose he has a Crown Custom ;)

Its not ALWAYS about utilities, sometimes ya just gotta say LETS HAVE SOME FUN!!!
RA

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

I think that in many cases you would be correct.

I was on an elk hunt in new mexico several years ago and the outfitter took 9 of us hunters to the range to check our rifles zero's after our flights.One of the hunters had a crown grade 300 weatherby that had very fancy wood with inlays and extensive engraving.He was very proud of the rifle and although he had brought a borrowed rifle on the hunt as a backup he didn't bother to fire it.He shot a group of about 1-1/2" and then bragged to everyone how he was going to kill a 340 or better elk on the trip.Everyone else fired their rifles and my groups with both my stainless synthetic customs in 7mmstw and 8mmremmag were the smallest groups of the lot.The fellow with the weatherby looked at my guns and said something to the effect of "they shoot well but sure are plain looking".
We were then taken to our separate ranches to begin our hunts.On the third day I killed a decent 6x6 bull at 250 yards with my 7mmstw.At the end of our hunts we were all taken to our hotel to await our flight the next day.One of the fellows from the same camp as myself that had taken a very nice bull, treated the rest of the us and the guides from the hunt to supper that night.The weatherby owner approached me after supper and inquired as to where he could buy a mcmillan stock like mine to mount on his weatherby for future hunts.Apparently he had fallen on his rifle and broken the stock at the bolt cutout.He did not kill and elk on the trip.I talked to his guide later on and the guide told me that after breaking the stock the fellow had taken the backup gun on the next hunt and had missed a bull scoring at least 340 four times at about 200 yards.
Apparently that fancy gun with the inlayed wooden stock was nice to look at but even the owner realized that looks were not as important as durability and reliability when on an elk hunt.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

Well, I guess I touched a "sensitive" Oldelk fiber here!

Chill out oldie, life is too short (and the season is even shorter) to hang out in the forums making such unfriendly comments.

Just think that a Ford Pinto and a BMW will take you from point A to point B, but the thing is to get there!!!!

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

And of course your comment was friendly:D. As a previous owner of just a few Weatherby Mkv's I can tell you there is no envy at least on my part towards these guns.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

To each its own..........

Be happy!!.........:)

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

They are pretty guns....but I make it a point to hunt with all mine..lol. Would hate to scratch something that looks that good.

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

I recently purchased a Weatherby Vanguard in .300 Weatherby Magnum and "made in Japan" is clearly stamped on it so I think Howa is still manufacturing the barrel and action. I believe the synthetic stock is built by a company called Butler Creek which is located either in the U.S. and Canada which makes the Vanguard typical of the global economy. I bought mine at a sporting goods store. Wall Mart does not sell firearms in California, it may be that they do not want to deal with the 10 day waiting period. Anyway, I love my Vanguard and have consigned my Remington 700 BDL to a permenant spot in the back of my gun safe.

Californiadoctor

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

I agree with Red Allison.....Sometimes you just need a mid-life crisis. Buy the ferrari! There are two things that make a gun valuable to me. First, if it has memories....like your grandfather or your dad hunted with it. Second, if it is a beautiful piece of equipment.

I use the cheap but solid for most hunting and drag out the art and the memories just cause they make you feel good! -Griller

RE: Weatherby Mk V vs Vanguard comparisms
 

If Howa can build a Weatherby Vanguard chambered for .338 Winchester Magnum why can't Weatherby offer the Vanguard in .340 Weatherby Magnum. Is it some type of technical problem or is it a fear that more savvy consumers who felt the need for that kind of power would opt for the Vanguard over the much pricier Mark Vs?

Californiadoctor