Eye relief
 

How important, and financially intelligent, is an extra inch of eye relief to the guy that shoulders his gun for a limited number of rounds---say---for turkey and deer season?

I see quite a few guys on here touting the "extra" eye relief from either Leupolds or compact scopes, but that "extra" eye relief is in actuality only 1 to 1.5 inches.

At higher power on variable power scopes, the "extra" eye relief may be 2.5 inches, but to me---a guy who uses his scopes to hunt---the "extra" eye relief is not noticeable.

I just topped my shotgun with a 3-9X40 Burris, with 3.1-3.8" of eye relief, and I'm shooting it great. The 3.5 inches of eye relief are more than adequate, even on a 12 gauge.

So unless you're shooting 1) extremely long shots at higher powers, 2) a real cannon with a serious kick, or 3) lots of rounds (target or otherwise)...is the "extra" eye relief really worth the extra buck?

S&R

RE: Eye relief
 

I shoot the ultramags and 3.5" of eye relief is enough for me.What I do like however is constant eye relief throughout the magnification range.My leupold vxiii 6.5x20x40efr is really frustating in just how much the eye relief changes as you vary the magnification settings.

RE: Eye relief
 

Very few centerfire rifles would kick as much or more than a 12 gauge shotgun. If you can shoot that setup without getting hit by the scope then I would say you are good to go. Shooting from a bench, you realize is not like shooting in the field where you might have to snap off a shot or are hanging from a tree. Extra eye releif is never a bad thing as it speeds up target aquisition in my opinion. Also important is how critical the sight picture/eye relief is. A leupold just snaps up and gives you a full picture and "BANG" your done. If you have to adjust your head while trying to aim then I don't want that scope on a big game rifle.

RE: Eye relief
 

I was at the range today and the guy next to me was shooting a knight ML ....I look over and he was holding a dime size flap of skin on his nose closed and dripping with blood. I bet he wishes he had an extra 1-1 1/2 in of eye relief !

RE: Eye relief
 

Unfortunately some people don't know how to properly mount scopes and don't get the proper eye relief even if the scope has plenty.Others crawl up the stock even with the scope has enough eye relief and is mounted properly.The problem may be a scope with inadequate eye relief but not necessarily.

RE: Eye relief
 

OUCH!!!!!!!!

RE: Eye relief
 

I've got a B&L Elite 3000 on my 300 Win Mag. I've had the scope bounce off my shooting glasses a number of times at the range. It's got a soft rubber ring but I know if I'm not careful it'll be ugly! :( I would appreciate (and will spend some cash on) that extra inch of relief.

It happens to the best of us. Even a properly set up scope can induce "magnum eyebrow" after an awkwardly positioned field shot. Just gotta be careful.

RE: Eye relief
 

It also helps when the scope has a nice thick rubber ring on the eyepiece just in case.However some manufacturers still insist on a thin metal eyepiece that will cut you much more easily.

RE: Eye relief
 

For the 270, 308 shooters, it doesn't help you as you say. If you shoot a 300Win mag, maybe a RUM, you buy for eye relief.

RE: Eye relief
 

Another thing is I don't really buy a scope for a gun. Alot of my scopes have been on two or three different gun some with moderate recoil, others with alot. I buy a scope for life. And tend to shoot the other out, rebarrel rechamber, trade off, whatever. But the scope could be on several different guns. For example my Vari X III 1.5-5 has been on a friends 458 lott, my 870 slug gun and now rests on my Knight elite disc. Where will it end up next? Who knows. But whatever it ends up on is probably a gun meant to shoot under 100 yards and probably kicks hard. I have a 4.5-14, and its been on a 270, a 6mm target gun, on one of my RUM's and now rests on my 300RUM I had built.

So if you buy a scope with the eye relief already built in, it makes is more versitile for the future. Especially if like shooting rifles alot like myself.

Another thing, you can't tell about the future. I used to be a one box of shells a year guy, and just got caught up with shooting and reloading. I know several individuals like yourself that never thought they would get into the shooting sports very heavy, but now are hardcores.

RE: Eye relief
 

bigcountry,

good points. One of the reasons I went with the Burris, I plan on moving in about 1 year (finally done with the last degree at college), and won't know where I'll end up. I slug-gun now, but may soon be slinging a nice bolt-action rifle, and wanted a scope I could mount on the shotgun and still be able to put on a rifle in the future.

Funny though, I never would have thought an extra inch would have mattered unless you were female [8D]:D

RE: Eye relief
 

One of my buddies found out the hard way that finding yourself shooting from a prone position in the field can put your eyebrow a bit closer to the scope than firing it from the bench. He was wishing he that extra inch of insurance right about then! :D

RE: Eye relief
 

Bilge, I think that's the main culprit; prone position. I've even read about Joyce Hornady being knocked unconscious after shooting his 8mm Rem Mag from prone.

RE: Eye relief
 

I recently re-mounted an inexpensive Bushnell scope that has been on my Remington 742. For over 20 years I hated this gun because I had those cheap see-through scope mounts, and it never felt right or shot that well for me. I've long since moved on to other bolt action rifles with far better scopes and far better scope mounts.

Anyway, out of boredom, I dumped the old mounts, put a Leupold steel base and rings on the 742, and put the old cheapie scope on it. All of a sudden it looks better, feels better and shoots better (amazing what happens when the screws don't come loose on you!:eek:) In any event, this 742 is the mildest recoiling .30-06 that I have (I own four rilfes in this caliber.) After re-mounting the scope I fiddled with the position until I thought I had the eye relief just about right. When I got it to the range, it whacked me in the nose hard enough to draw blood. Needless to say this was embarassing. I am probably going to upgrade to a better scope and relegate the cheapie to my son's .22; when I do, eye relief will definitely be a consideration.

Once you get a bloody nose in public, you start thinking about things like this.;)

RE: Eye relief
 

A wise man once told me, "It's good to learn from your mistake, but even better to learn from some one elses mistake!!

Eye relief is number one on my list when thinking about buying a scope. I wacked by eye brow once with a cheap scope, Notice I wrote "once".

RE: Eye relief
 

Since most "quality scope makers" offer adequate eye relief,I put a lot more consideration into lenses and coatings,durability and weight when choosing a scope.

RE: Eye relief
 

That's a good one! I think I'll use that quote myself if you don't mind...and even if you do...hehe!

Back to the topic, is there a way to determine the minimum eye relief for a given rifle/cartrige combo?

RE: Eye relief
 

Several comments have already been made but I'll throw in my $0.02.

I have bought several "cheap" scopes in the past and have kicked myself for doing so. Got dinged a few times either from the scope bezel itself or the scope jamming my glasses into my nose. OUCH! I use the word "cheap" to define quality, not price.

I have three Bushnell scopes that I feel are well built and quite adequate for the guns/barrels they are mounted on. They are not very expensive, $90-200. One is on an Encore 12 guage slug barrel and it is the new model with 6" eye relief. This scope is great for this purpose. T/C has a crazy scope base that only fits this barrel and puts the scope further forward. The long eye relief really helps. I also have a 6" eye relief scope on my 209x50 barrel. The one thing I don't like about the Encore is the stock design. The recoil tends to kick the gun up into your face instead of straight back so these LER scopes really help on heavy recoil barrels.

I have a couple of Leupolds on dedicated rifles and they have about 3.5" of eye relief. I think that is fine with a high quality scope like this. The eye relief stays constant through-out the magnification range so I don't have to creep up on it at higher levels.

One thing I did not see mentioned here is how to properly mount a scope in regards to eye relief. Make sure that the scope is set to it's highest magnification level and position the scope for the proper eye relief. Everybody reading this probably already knows this but just wanted to make sure. I like to do this from the offhand position. You never know when you may get a shot and I just want the gun to naturally go into position without having to adjust my head to see through the scope. This may put the scope closer to your face while at the bench or in the prone position but you should have more time to adjust your head before taking the shot.

Last but not least is my advice to buy a "quality" scope. I don't think you need to drop $1200 on a Swarovski but don't buy a $40 cheapy either. Like BigCountry said, I have swapped scopes onto different rifles because I always seem to be buying and selling guns but I keep my scopes.

RE: Eye relief
 

They do? I know alot that don't like Burris for instance. I require the 3.6" of a Leupold. Or the 3.5" of a Zeiss. I can't do with less with my RUM's or or other hard kicking guns.

You know I used to put alot of considerations into lenses, and all too. But started asking myself, why? I mean, I use to be in the business of lenses and index matching coatings. I understand durability, and maybe wieght. But the coatings and lenses are pretty stardard or as you say adequate for any hunting situation on these higher end scopes.

I see alot of guys say they can tell the difference between this and that. But when I put htem to the test, it usually appears to be purely emotional. In other words, thats what they always buy.

RE: Eye relief
 

The eye relief changes considerably as the magnification is adjusted with my leupold vxiii.

RE: Eye relief
 

I have had swarovski,ziess and leupold mounted on my ultramags and other heavy recoilers.All had adequate eye relief.I have not used burris.

RE: Eye relief
 

Well, throw you on a 6-24 power signature scope sometimes you will feel the wind from the scope comeing dangerously close to your brow.

I see a nice conquest 3-9X40 out there I plan to get for a new STW I am getting that has 4" of constant eye relief. Now thats plenty.

RE: Eye relief
 

BC,

Why the Burris bashing? All their scopes have eye relief in the 3.0 to 4.0 range. The compacts, EER and shotgun scopes all have considerably more.

I'm not an "expert", but the 3.0 to 4.0 is the industry norm for eye relief specs.

At 8 power on my M-37 Ithaca 12 gauge (~3.2 inch ER), I don't feel the wind blow. Find it hard to believe that 3 inches isn't adequate on most any gun, if properly mounted and aligned with your eye. JMHO...

RE: Eye relief
 

I guess strut, cause its a crap scope. I have had two and thats two to many.

1. Not enough elevation and windage adjustment for serious long range shooting. 18 MOA on a signature, what POS. You have up to 30 some on a Leupold and Conquest.
2. Not enought eye relieve
Fullfields:3.1 at max power
signature 6-24 power (POS I had), 3.2" at max power (and I see that was definatly a inflated number thats false advertising)

Leupys
6.5-20 VXIII 3.6" at max power (yes I want that extra .4") (and yes its worth it for some shooters)

yea, I have shot slugguns all my life. Not even in the same leugue as my 338 Ultra or even 300ultra. Slugguns use much less but much faster burning power. This causes the recoil to be sharp, but quick. Firing a 338 uses much slower burning powder like RL25 and Retumbo, and the recoil is long and hard.

RE: Eye relief
 

I guess, BC, I'm just slightly confused as to how you can't adjust your mounting to accomodate that 0.4 inch difference. A third to 0.4 of an inch is approximately 3/8 of an inch...I just cannot fathom how that little difference in eye relief cannot be taken up by mounting.

Like I said, I'm no expert, and I'm not knocking anyone that likes more eye relief (who doesn't right?!)---I just fail to see how 3/8 of an inch can be soooo important.

And yes, I too have been plugged by scopes mounted on shotguns and larger calibered rifles....hell, even a scope on a .22 rimfire can get your brow if it's mounted too far rearward (edit, sorry).

But 3/8 of an inch?

Sorry, I just don't like the concept of someone calling an American product a POS because of 3/8 of an inch...

RE: Eye relief
 

Yea, I am a little confused by your confusion. You mount the scope so when you are aiming, you have the widest picture possible at your highest power. If you mount it too far forward your causing your sight picture to be smaller and possible parrallax issues with your eyes. You know, if you get too far your sight picture is small, etc. Thats you point of eye relief. That 3/8" isn't important to you, but is to people who need it on funs that recoil harder than 33ft/lbs.

RE: Eye relief
 

Eye relief is not adjustable.You mount the scope to give you the correct eye relief for the individual scope and it either is or isn't enough.

RE: Eye relief
 

Yes,

I fully understand the meaning of eye relief. My point is this...if you mount the scope further forward, your shoulder is able to burden more of the recoil before the scope knocks you on your brow, at least in theory ;)

My dad was a sniper in the military, I know all about eye relief. I learned to shoot on an old Mauser 6mm with elevation sights, and I also know a little something about optics too...

However, I'm not debating that on certain cannons (which I pointed to in my original post) that more eye relief might be required. BUT, I'm still concerned that you're bashing an American made product because it doesn't give YOU the proper eye relief.

I'm just suggesting that before you slam the scope manufacturer, play with the mounting and the ring combinations, because many times you can adjust to alleviate "bloody brow syndrome". I also understand that with certain guns, you cannot get enough eye relief. It doesn't matter how much recoil your shoulder consumes, the gun will kick both rearward and upward and smack the bejesus out of your pumpkin.

But if you choose to shoot those monsters, complain about the recoil, not about the 3/8 of an inch a scope manufacturer doesn't provide [&:]....

RE: Eye relief
 

If you only shoot your gun 4 times a year, but you get hit in the face all 4 times, then extra eye relief would be important, I guess.

RE: Eye relief
 

If you mount the scope so it is farther from your eye that it's rated eye relief you won't see the full field of view.

RE: Eye relief
 

sj,

Very true, but unrelated to my explanation. By mounting the scope further forward you in essence encompass a tighter grip---ie. you put your shoulder into the gunbutt more to achieve optimal scope performance. The gun becomes "one" with your body. Although a relaxed "form" is desired for optimal precision, you can train your body to have a tight grip and maintain both physical and mental relaxation. Just like everything else, it takes practice...

Hence, the distance from scope to eye is the same, but your body is pressed further forward, and the gun tighter to your body. Therefore, the gun has less rearward travel at ignition, because your body has "shifted" into a tighter position. This is in theory, and will work dramatically with smaller caliber rifles and shotguns by simply sliding the scope forward in the mounts. Yes, this may cause parallax problems, and the sight line may be too awkward for some (low cheek compared to full cheek)...BUT

Again, as I stated in my original post, is eye relief worth $100's more on the average rifle? Not the monsters that BC is talking about, but the average hunting gun, including slugguns? I don't personally think so, and just don't see the justification.

RE: Eye relief
 

Or you buy the right tool for the job and not develop a habit that will be hard to brake with improper form just because you get emotional over a product.

There's alot more to it than just eye relief.
1. adjustment. I have had two burris scopes. And if you try to change zero to accomidate long range shooting (with the target turrets as they are meant for), you cannot get back to zero. Have you ever did a box test? Yes, i have had Leupolds also fail this test. But since thier customer service is very good, when I called, I didn't have someone try to tell me, "its probably you and not the scope". But with burris, I got just that. Alot of argueing. I don't need that. Then we starting discussing thier limited amount of windage and elevation adjustment compared to others in the market. Again, alot of arguing instead of listening to the customer.

I don't care what anyone says, 22MOA adjustment is not enough with a target scope. You can automatically take away 5MOA of that for the extremes. At the extremes, you adjustment becomes much more inaccurate. So you need 8MOA adjustment, you have use these stupid signature series rings with inserts to get them just right. You use a colimator and still need to verify with shooting. So then you come back to the house and change inserts and repeat. Come on. This ain't no way to do long range work. It ain't worth the 100 dollars I saved on the scope.

Bud, I travel all over the world for a living and going to let you in on a little secret that can't be undone and there's no turning back no matter how many complain. Its a world market.

RE: Eye relief
 

bc,

No complaints about a world market. And no beef with you having complaints about a particular product line.

I am curious though, why do you think a tighter grip is bad form? It's actually practiced by many who shoot for much higher stakes than you or I...

But I won't argue, some guns require more eye relief, period. I will say, though, to etothepi observation...the person is an idiot if it takes 4 straight smacks to the noggin to either change the set-up or change the scope [&:]

RE: Eye relief
 

I never said tighter grip is a problem, but the moving of the head forward is my complaint.