battle of the 7mm's
 

Which 7mm Mag would you reccomend for long shots on GA deer and hogs. Most shots will be 250 yards or closer, but some may be out to 400. I am looking at the 7mm Rem Mag., 7mm Rem Ultra Mag., and the 7mm STW. Which one would you prefer and why? Whichever one I get, I plan on putting a Sims recoil pad on to take some of the kick out, but I'm not too worried about it. Thanks,

Timba

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I own two 7mmstw's and a 7mmultramag and have owned two 7mmremmags.If you don't handload forget the stw and ultramag as factory loads are pathetically mild,are expensive and are avaliable in few loadings.The 7mmstw and 7mm ultramag provide little advantage until well over 300 yards so again they offer few advantages for the average shooter.The next thing to consider is how much time and money are you planning on spending on practising and do you have a 400 yard or 500 yard range nearby?If you have access to a 400 yard or 500 yard range and are prepaired to shoot several hundred rounds at various ranges to develop and maintain the shooting skills necessary to consistantly place your bullets at 400 yards the stw and ultramag may be a good choice.If however you aren't willing to make this commitment you will not be able to take advantage of the superflat tradjectories that the stw and ultramag offer and will be better off with the 7mmremmag.I actually prefer the 7mmstw over the 7mmultramag as the ultramag only offers an extra 50fps to 75fps over the stw but burns a great deal more powder at the expense of even shorter barrel life to accomplish this.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

For deer out to 400 yards? 280 Remington. On deer its as good of Seven as you will ever need. Save the powder.

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RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

On paper and at the range the STW is my first pick! Like the man said,if you don't reload not a good choice. The 7mag...:D

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I would have to agree with James......out to 400 yards the various 7mm. mags offer you nothing over the 280 Rem except burning more powder.


doubleA

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I too am in agreement with James and doubleA.

A 140 grain bullet at 3000fps out of a .280 is pretty dang flat shooting and will take any deer that walks this earth.

The 7mm STW and 7mm ultra mag are simply not needed unless you are regularly shooting at elk and moose at distances over 400 yards. Save the money, powder and your shoulder.

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RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

Im not going to take sides here. But if you will look on a box of 280. rem. They also say 280. or 7 mm . the old 7 mm. I do agree that the 7 stw would be the choice of the 7ns. Just an opinion.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

The 7MM STW is flatter. Shoots faster, hits harder, Kicks harder cost more . However the 280 will do that same job, drop a deer at 400 yards just as well as any of the thunder cannons. To me shooting beyond 400 yards at any game animal is not an option so there is no need for a bunch of unecessary noise, recoil and expense. I have learned that for me enough is enough. The 270 and 280 will deliever around 1500 lbs ME at 400 yards. Do you need more? No. Can you have more if you wany? Of course thats what they make gun powder for. When they say it offers nothing more they mean dead is dead. That with 2200 lbs ME or 1600 ME. If that is not enough power though I quess we could use the Warbird with its 168 grain X bullet at 3700 fps. Or wait another year or so until that one is a peashooter as well. After that the 7mm-08, 280, 270. and the other little guns will still be dropping big game in their tracks as they have for many years. Good hunting guys.:) If I was to get a 7mm Mag it would be the Winchester Coyote in 7MM WSM.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I would think it's because the STW uses a bigger case and thus uses more powder....DOH![&:]


DG,I have had a 7MM STW since 1989,and a 7mm REm Mag before that, and added a 280 Rem to my battery several years ago. The ballistics of the STW are nothing new to me.( some, like yourself are a few years late) I still stand by my first post, out to 400 yards the plain old 280 Rem will do anything that the bigger mags will do, maybe with a little less glamor and powder. When you start going beyond that, yes, the 7mm STW and 7mmUM have merit.

doubleA;)

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

If you fire a 140-grain, 7mm bullet with a B.C. of .490 @ 3400 FPS froma 7mm STW and zeroed @ 200 yards, it will hit -14" @ 400 yards. If you fire a 140-grain, 7mm bullet with a B.C. of .490 @ 3000 FPS from a .280 Remington, zeroed @ 200 yards, it will hit -19" @ 400 yards. So we're talking 5" of difference between the two @ 400 yards. Since BOTH rounds will require you to hold above the desired POI at that range, neither is better! You'll still have to know the distance to the target, and your rifle's trajectory, to do the job!!

The 7STW will give you 2098 ft/lb at 400, and the .280 carries 1600 - both have plenty of energy to kill deer at that distance! But the .280 will do this with just a little more than 60% of the powder the & STW needs, and the barrel will outlast three 7 STW barrels. You pays your money and takes your choice......

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

So using that logic the 300ultramag is no better than a 30-30 for 1000 yard target shooting.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

What companies still chamber for the STW? I like it better over the RUM just because I'm not limited to Rem ammo. My reloading stuff isnt set up yet, and i dont know how long it will take me to get it set up, but I do have a die for a 7mm Mag because my dad used to shoot one. Thanks for the fast replys,

Timba

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RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

DG, you are miscalulating again.

A 140 grain Ballistic Tip fired at 3000 fps from a 280 Rem has a time of flight of .463 of a second, that's at 400 yards. Now, driving the same bullet to 3400 fps from a 7mmSTW the time of flight at 400 yards is .404 seconds.

OK, now we take .404 and subtract that from .463 and we get a difference of .059.

That's a mere fifty-nine thousandths of a second. Is burning 15-20 grains more powder worth the gain, some may think so some not. It's your choice. Dont get me wrong, the STW is a fine round but truly not needed for 400 yard shots.


bigger is always better....NOT!!!!
doubleA[:-]

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RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

My old 700 Bld 280 Rem. clocks out a 3140 with the 140 gr Ballistic tip. That over both of my Chronographs. This is about 40 FPS more than I can get from my 7Mag winchester model 70. Both have 24 inch barrel. In my other 280 which is an NEF with a 26 inch barrel. I load the 120 grain Sierra pro-hunter. It loaded to only 2950 FPS because the 120 Pro-Hunter is a bit fragil. I sold my 7MM STW to my gunsmith. It was a great gun. I think very soon we will see a couple new powders that will load the 7 MM Ultra to well over the STW. I read an artical about them. Both the 300 and 7mm Ultras are handicapped right now for a lack of a slower powder.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I wonder what kind of chamber pressure you are producing with this load.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I don't know but there are no signs of excess pressure what so ever No extractor marks no difficult bolt opening and I am still using the original 50 brass I started with about ten years ago. I have only loaded that one load in the NEF the one with the 26 inch barrel and that was 2950 with the 120 grain Sierra. I have an Idea with the 26 inch barrel it would develop good velloocity. I do not however load either to the max and backed off to about 2900 on the Remington BDL. I like the lighter bullets and they do not need to be driven beyond 2800 fps. The load for the NEF just happen to be extremely accurate so I left it alone. I have some 140 grain Ballistic tips loaded for the NEF but have not had any decent weather to go out and give them a try.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

doubleA..... the 280 can take any deer size game out to 400 yards right along side of the rest of the 7 mags with lower recoil, less powder, better barrel life, just an opinion though.........

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

One LAST word. My new Nosler Manual lists the Max Velocity for the 280 with RE 19 and the 140 Ballistic Tip at 3152 fps. I was below their max load by a grain or two. Even the 7MM-08 will deliever 1400 lbs ME at 400 yards.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I suspect there's a helluva lot more difference between the two you mentioned, and the two comparisons I made. Perhaps the LOGIC is the same, but your example is pretty extreme....[&:]

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

Lak ah dun sed: Yew pays yer munny, and yew takes yer choice.....

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

This is NUTS!! The ORIGINAL FACTORY .270 Win. 130-grain load pushed 3140 FPS in 1926! Are you saying that with today's MUCH BETTER modern powders, we can't safely get the same speed from the .280 with a 140-grain bullet?? Gimme a break!![X(]

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

Interesting reading but I was thinking along the same lines as several of the others. My fav 7mm's are the 7mm Express and the 7mm-08. Much more shooter friendly...however you do lose the bragging element with either of them compared to the mags. That could be it.....

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

If logic can hold up when pushed to the extreme it is sound logic.If it doesn't hold up it may not be so sound.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

There is often a significant difference between factory published velocities and reality.Then again if you have some of these 1926 loads to chronograph you could prove whether the published data was fact or fantasy.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I don't have any 1926 loads but I have some I loaded this year and they are nearly Idenical to the published ones. The NEF 26 inch barrel is slightly above the published loads with the 120 grain bullet which is the weight I prefer for deer at ranges to 300 yards. I am just pushing it along at about 2950-2970 fps. This apears to be a very light load and 250-300 under their published loads. That is the published loads for the amount of powder I am using. I am useing IMR 4831.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

A 120gr bullet at 2950-2970fps is a far cry from a 140gr bullet at 3140fps.

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RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

After owning (3) 280 rems 700ks weatherby lightweight and a ruger no 1(26" barrel) the closest any would come to published specs as per Nosler # 4,Hornady or any other handload data for that matter was the Ruger with a 26" barrel 3000 fps(140 grain ballistic tip) the others were pathetically short of this in most cases 200-300 fps difference...Federal 140 grain Trophy bonded HE loads only produced 3070 in any of the 24" guns... I don't know where those velocities come from but I sure have not experienced them....

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

If you read what I said again you will see that that is the velocity I PREFER I can load it a hell of a lot hotter than that. I am just saying Why would I want to? If I wanted the heck kicked out of me I would buy another 7MM Remington Ultra Mag. I see no reason to use much more fire power than it takes to make a quick humane kill which the 280 with the 120 grain Sierra does big time. Never had one even take a step after the impact. I have chronographed all my loads not just with my chronographs but also with professional equipoment used by Speer. I can do nothing about anyone elses results but I know what mine are. A buddy of mine worked for Speer for many years and we reloaded a lot together. I think most of my manuals list the 280 with 140 grain bullets at between 3000 and 3150. Anyway thats plenty fast for any deer critter and even bigger.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

The only 7's I have are 7mm Rem Mags. They do everything I need. Cheaper to shoot and easier to find factory loaded ammunition.I would like to get a 7mm-08 soon but I'm more then satisfied with my 7mm RM's.
Ruger Redhawk

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

I have had a couple 7MM-08's Just picked up a Savage Scout Rifle in that caliber. Just a 20 inch Barrel.

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

Let's see, just for grins I looked up these loads in my reloading journal. These loads did not show pressure signs and were either shot over a Oehler 35P, a Pact Pro or both. 3 or more 5 shot groups

280 Rem in a 22" tube.......... 140 gr BT 56.0gr IMR-4831= 3046
zeroed@200yds it's -18.6 at 400yds
time of flight .455 sec

7mm Rem Mag in a 24" tube....140 gr BT 72.0 gr IMR-7828=3210
zeroed@200yds it's -16.4 at 400yds
time of flight .431 sec

7mm STW in 28" tube ....... 140gr BT 78.0gr IMR-7828= 3400
zeroed@200yds it's -14.2 at 400yds
time of flight .404 sec

These are my findings in my own rifles, I dont recomend that anyone use any of the above loads in their own firearms unless they are reduced and then worked up.

So there are my findings,like I posted before, out to 400 yards the little old 280 gives up very little and uses 22 fewer grains of powder over theSTW,if it were me hunting deer in Georgia and most shots will be 250 yards and under a 7-08 would fit the bill or maybe a 280 Rem. A magnum isnt needed in this case, but due have merit when you start stretching beyond 400+


doubleA280

RE: battle of the 7mm's
 

doubleA -you certainly aren't producing great velocity out of your stw considering it has a 28" barrel.Both of my stw's have 26" barrels and one produces over 3500fps and the other just under with 140gr bullets.