Most accurate rifle
#21
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 44
Guys I am the OP, I have been working and have not had a chance to read all your replies. Sorry for the rant, I am not an expert shot by any means and that is one reason why I reload. But it rankles me that these gun experts say they can get MOA with factory ammo and using the same ammo off a lead sled with no wind I get 2-3 inch groups. With my reloads I can get both my Weatherby and Ruger American to shoot 1.25 -1.75 three shot groups at 100 yards, but this is with shooting many different loads. With other rifles I and my Father own I can shoot MOA at 100 which is not great but plenty good for what we hunt. Maybe I am expecting to much from a factory rifle.
#22
I have a Winchester Model 70 (early 1990s vintage) in a 30-06 and a Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 in a 300 Win Mag. I get sub MOA with both these rifles using premium factory ammo. I have begun reloading to help improve my accuracy. I also have quality bases/rings and high quality scopes on both rifles. Practice makes perfect.
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
Guys I am the OP, I have been working and have not had a chance to read all your replies. Sorry for the rant, I am not an expert shot by any means and that is one reason why I reload. But it rankles me that these gun experts say they can get MOA with factory ammo and using the same ammo off a lead sled with no wind I get 2-3 inch groups. With my reloads I can get both my Weatherby and Ruger American to shoot 1.25 -1.75 three shot groups at 100 yards, but this is with shooting many different loads. With other rifles I and my Father own I can shoot MOA at 100 which is not great but plenty good for what we hunt. Maybe I am expecting to much from a factory rifle.
RR
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
What mounts are on these rifles? Were they torqued to spec? Loc-Tite'ed? I've seen cheap and poorly installed mounts wreck the accuracy of many a fine rifle.
If you're getting 2-3" groups off a sled, I'd be looking at mounting issues first.
#25
Guys I am the OP, I have been working and have not had a chance to read all your replies. Sorry for the rant, I am not an expert shot by any means and that is one reason why I reload. But it rankles me that these gun experts say they can get MOA with factory ammo and using the same ammo off a lead sled with no wind I get 2-3 inch groups. With my reloads I can get both my Weatherby and Ruger American to shoot 1.25 -1.75 three shot groups at 100 yards, but this is with shooting many different loads. With other rifles I and my Father own I can shoot MOA at 100 which is not great but plenty good for what we hunt. Maybe I am expecting to much from a factory rifle.
Model 798 375H&H 260gr Nosler Partition, RL15 100yards. Flyer was my fault, I pulled. Gun is untouched internally. Just a redfield 2-7x
#26
Lead sled isn't a guarantee of utmost accuracy either. I shoot far better off of a front rest and sandbag than I ever did out of a sled, heck, better off of a bipod prone than I do out of a sled.
I'm surprised to hear you can't find a factory load that doesn't group better than 2-3" at 100yrds. Are you possibly running bullet weights not appropriate for your twist and velocity? Might have some warranty level issue if everything is lined up and you can't get it any better than that.
I'm surprised to hear you can't find a factory load that doesn't group better than 2-3" at 100yrds. Are you possibly running bullet weights not appropriate for your twist and velocity? Might have some warranty level issue if everything is lined up and you can't get it any better than that.
#27
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 44
All mounting hardware was degreased, torqued to spec and Loctite. Have tried factory and handloads 150, 165, 180 grains. 165 seems the best on both rifles. The Ruger American is fairly new so I may be able to get to MOA but the Vanguard, I don't know what to say, I have tried Barnes, Hornady, Speer, and Gamkings and the only thing that shoots halfway decent is Gamekings. The rifle is thoroughly cleaned after every session, I guess the next thing is to see if another scope will help
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
What make mounts and scope are you using now? I'm also assuming also a .30-caliber (.308, .30-06, .300-something-magnum)?
The groups you're getting from your Vanguard at 100 yards are what I'd expect from mine at 300. That you're having similar accuracy issues with the Ruger is puzzling. Has anyone else fired these two and, if so, did the accuracy issues persist?
Unless you know you have junk glass on the Vanguard now, attempting to solve the problem by buying a new scope may be throwing good money after bad at this point.
The groups you're getting from your Vanguard at 100 yards are what I'd expect from mine at 300. That you're having similar accuracy issues with the Ruger is puzzling. Has anyone else fired these two and, if so, did the accuracy issues persist?
Unless you know you have junk glass on the Vanguard now, attempting to solve the problem by buying a new scope may be throwing good money after bad at this point.
#29
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 44
On the Vanguard scope is a Zeiss 3-9 with leupold mounts, the Ruger I believe has warn steel mounts with a cheap Bushnell scope. What I don't understand is when I first took the Vanguard out it shoot a 4 shot group at .75 MOA using GK 150g with 40g of IMR 3031 with a coal 2765 and I thought Great! this thing is going to be a tack driver, that was the first load I ever fired out of this rifle, just think of what I can do with other reloads or factory stuff. Problem is I have never been able to duplicate this with this exact load or any other for that matter. Now I get 1.25 - 1.5 3 shot Moa with this same load. Rifle is thoroughly cleaned after every shoot. Every thing else I have shot does worse than this.
From everything I have heard on this forum from other articles I have read Vanguards are supposed to be tack drivers.
From everything I have heard on this forum from other articles I have read Vanguards are supposed to be tack drivers.
#30
On the Vanguard scope is a Zeiss 3-9 with leupold mounts, the Ruger I believe has warn steel mounts with a cheap Bushnell scope. What I don't understand is when I first took the Vanguard out it shoot a 4 shot group at .75 MOA using GK 150g with 40g of IMR 3031 with a coal 2765 and I thought Great! this thing is going to be a tack driver, that was the first load I ever fired out of this rifle, just think of what I can do with other reloads or factory stuff. Problem is I have never been able to duplicate this with this exact load or any other for that matter. Now I get 1.25 - 1.5 3 shot Moa with this same load. Rifle is thoroughly cleaned after every shoot. Every thing else I have shot does worse than this.
From everything I have heard on this forum from other articles I have read Vanguards are supposed to be tack drivers.
From everything I have heard on this forum from other articles I have read Vanguards are supposed to be tack drivers.