From the Theater
04-07-2011, 09:46 AM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
From the Theater
No BS................just the facts man ! 
US Weapons:
1) The M-16 rifle: Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum
powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel
filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is
more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems
also. They have the ability to mount the various optical gun sights and
weapons lights on the picatinny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in
a desert environment.
EVERYONE hates the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinder block
structure common over there and even torso hits can't be reliably counted on
to put the enemy down.
Fun fact:
1) Random autopsies on dead insurgents show a high level of opiate use.
2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine
gun. Big thumbs down.. Universally considered a piece of ****. Chronic
jamming problems, most of which require partial dis-assembly (that's fun in
the middle of a firefight).
3) The M9 Beretta 9mm Pistol: Mixed bag. Good gun performs well in desert
environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for
self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys
hit multiple times and still in the fight.
4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing
houses to good effect. (Great weapon - I used these when transporting
prisoners.)
5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 NATO (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!)
Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. Originally
developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted
and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure
over there (and actually kills the enemy).
6) The M2 50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma Deuce" is still
worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper - puts
their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.
7) The .45 pistol (M1911A1): Thumbs up. Still the best pistol around out
there. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands
on one. With few exceptions, one can reliably be expected to put 'em down
with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol
work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it (H&K USP .45). The
old government model.45's are being re-issued en masse (We can't get enough
fast enough).
8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
modified version to special ops guys (M-14 EBR). Modifications include
lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very
reliable in the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round. It kills
the enemy no problem.
9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and
accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle
suicide bombers (we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. It is
definitely here to stay.
10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 Win Mag.
Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have been used
heavily to great effect. Rumor has it a marine sniper on his third tour in
Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hath****'s record for confirmed
kills with OVER 100. (No **** real.)
11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and
can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an
AK-47 round.
The bad news: Hot as **** to wear, almost unbearable in the summer
heat(which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for head
shots whenever possible. All the bull**** about the "old" body armor making
our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED explosions are
enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in most cases
(Nothing short of an Abrams M1 Tank will protect personnel against most
IEDs, and sometimes not even them.).
12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular
performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little
enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being whacked at
night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen the videos.
13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are
Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations.
Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it. I can't
help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance are 50
or more years old!! With all our technology, it's the WWII and Vietnam era
weapons that everybody wants!! The infantry fighting is frequent, up close
and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.
Bad guy weapons:
1) Mostly AK47's. The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the
desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed
light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly
shoots like ****. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they
are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. ( From
Iran, again.)
2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple,
reliable and as common as dog****. The enemy responded to our up-armored
Humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still
killing a lot of our guys.
3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet
anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan 's
area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155 mm artillery
shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone and the
explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank.
Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately,
they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically
designed to penetrate armor.
Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are supplied by Iran , who is also
providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use
and tactics. That's why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their
concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges, in
Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinder blocks that
litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb
disposal guys are the unsung heroes of this war.
4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The Soviet era 122mm rockets (with
an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan 's NCO's lost a
leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire". Jordan 's
base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire,
often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of
a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump
out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of
seconds.
Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship of our
guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad school that
the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily beaten in close
quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's just say they know better
now. [God bless the Marine Corps.]
Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and
satellite phones and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units
for navigation and "Google Earth" for overhead views of our positions. Their
weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and bomb
technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless
with their equipment and the GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of
Intel when captured.
Who are the bad guys? These are mostly "foreigners", non-Afghan Arab
Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe). Some are virtually
untrained young Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in various
"sacrifice squads". Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the
usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.). These are the guys running
around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off.
The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian) are supposedly the most ruthless
and the best fighters. They have been fighting the Russians for years. The
terrorists have been very adept at infiltrating the Afghan local govt.'s,
the police forces and the Army. They have had a spy and agitator network
there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's.
Bad Guy Tactics: When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their
asses kicked every time! Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges
were very common earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally
sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and
firing AK's and RPG's directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They
get mowed down like grass every time (see the M2 and M240 above). Jordan 's
base was hit like this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to
the same building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last
stand. Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more often than
not. These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's (AWR: Allah's
Waiting Room).
We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The fast
movers, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on the
enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130
Spectre Gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially
at night. Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all.
Fun facts: The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That
is why we're seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide
bomber ****. The new strategy is just simple attrition. The insurgent tactic
most frustrating is their use of civilian non-combatants as cover. They know
we do all we can to avoid civilian casualties and therefore schools,
hospitals and especially Mosques are locations where they meet, stage for
attacks, cache weapons, and ammo and flee to when engaged. They have
absolutely no regard whatsoever for inflicting civilian casualties. [Women
and civilian men are all considered expendable to Allah] They will terrorize
locals and murder without hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to
the Americans. Kidnaping of family members, especially children, is common
to influence people they are trying to influence but can't reach, such as
local govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.. The first thing our
guys are told is "don't get captured". They know that if captured they will
be tortured and beheaded on the internet. They openly offer bounties for
anyone who brings in a live American serviceman. This motivates the criminal
element who otherwise don't give a **** about the war. A lot of the
beheading victims were actually kidnaped by common criminals and sold to
them. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the death. Surrender is not
an option. The Afghani's are a mixed bag. Some fight well; others aren't
worth a damn. Most do okay with American support.
Finding leaders is hard, but they are getting better. Many Afghani's were
galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the police forces
went right up, along with their motivation. It also led to an exponential
increase in good intel because the Afghani's are sick of the insurgent
attacks against civilians.
Morale: According to Jordan , morale among our guys is very high. They not
only believe that they are winning, but that they are winning decisively.
They are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom
they almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are
despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1
and then see **** like "Are we losing in Iraq " on TV and the print media.
For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food, and
leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, is that there are not
enough guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the
insurgency, primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut
down the borders with Afghanisan and Pakistan. The Iranians and the Syrians
just can't stand the thought of Afganistan being an American ally (with, of
course, permanent US bases there).
Anyway, that's it, hope you found it interesting.
US Weapons:
1) The M-16 rifle: Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum
powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel
filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is
more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems
also. They have the ability to mount the various optical gun sights and
weapons lights on the picatinny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in
a desert environment.
EVERYONE hates the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinder block
structure common over there and even torso hits can't be reliably counted on
to put the enemy down.
Fun fact:
1) Random autopsies on dead insurgents show a high level of opiate use.
2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine
gun. Big thumbs down.. Universally considered a piece of ****. Chronic
jamming problems, most of which require partial dis-assembly (that's fun in
the middle of a firefight).
3) The M9 Beretta 9mm Pistol: Mixed bag. Good gun performs well in desert
environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for
self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys
hit multiple times and still in the fight.
4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing
houses to good effect. (Great weapon - I used these when transporting
prisoners.)
5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 NATO (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!)
Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. Originally
developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted
and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure
over there (and actually kills the enemy).
6) The M2 50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma Deuce" is still
worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper - puts
their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.
7) The .45 pistol (M1911A1): Thumbs up. Still the best pistol around out
there. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands
on one. With few exceptions, one can reliably be expected to put 'em down
with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol
work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it (H&K USP .45). The
old government model.45's are being re-issued en masse (We can't get enough
fast enough).
8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
modified version to special ops guys (M-14 EBR). Modifications include
lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very
reliable in the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round. It kills
the enemy no problem.
9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and
accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle
suicide bombers (we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. It is
definitely here to stay.
10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 Win Mag.
Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have been used
heavily to great effect. Rumor has it a marine sniper on his third tour in
Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hath****'s record for confirmed
kills with OVER 100. (No **** real.)
11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and
can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an
AK-47 round.
The bad news: Hot as **** to wear, almost unbearable in the summer
heat(which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for head
shots whenever possible. All the bull**** about the "old" body armor making
our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED explosions are
enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in most cases
(Nothing short of an Abrams M1 Tank will protect personnel against most
IEDs, and sometimes not even them.).
12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular
performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little
enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being whacked at
night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen the videos.
13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are
Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations.
Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it. I can't
help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance are 50
or more years old!! With all our technology, it's the WWII and Vietnam era
weapons that everybody wants!! The infantry fighting is frequent, up close
and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.
Bad guy weapons:
1) Mostly AK47's. The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the
desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed
light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly
shoots like ****. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they
are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. ( From
Iran, again.)
2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple,
reliable and as common as dog****. The enemy responded to our up-armored
Humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still
killing a lot of our guys.
3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet
anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan 's
area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155 mm artillery
shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone and the
explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank.
Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately,
they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically
designed to penetrate armor.
Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are supplied by Iran , who is also
providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use
and tactics. That's why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their
concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges, in
Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinder blocks that
litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb
disposal guys are the unsung heroes of this war.
4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The Soviet era 122mm rockets (with
an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan 's NCO's lost a
leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire". Jordan 's
base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire,
often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of
a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump
out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of
seconds.
Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship of our
guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad school that
the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily beaten in close
quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's just say they know better
now. [God bless the Marine Corps.]
Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and
satellite phones and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units
for navigation and "Google Earth" for overhead views of our positions. Their
weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and bomb
technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless
with their equipment and the GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of
Intel when captured.
Who are the bad guys? These are mostly "foreigners", non-Afghan Arab
Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe). Some are virtually
untrained young Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in various
"sacrifice squads". Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the
usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.). These are the guys running
around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off.
The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian) are supposedly the most ruthless
and the best fighters. They have been fighting the Russians for years. The
terrorists have been very adept at infiltrating the Afghan local govt.'s,
the police forces and the Army. They have had a spy and agitator network
there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's.
Bad Guy Tactics: When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their
asses kicked every time! Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges
were very common earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally
sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and
firing AK's and RPG's directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They
get mowed down like grass every time (see the M2 and M240 above). Jordan 's
base was hit like this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to
the same building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last
stand. Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more often than
not. These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's (AWR: Allah's
Waiting Room).
We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The fast
movers, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on the
enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130
Spectre Gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially
at night. Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all.
Fun facts: The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That
is why we're seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide
bomber ****. The new strategy is just simple attrition. The insurgent tactic
most frustrating is their use of civilian non-combatants as cover. They know
we do all we can to avoid civilian casualties and therefore schools,
hospitals and especially Mosques are locations where they meet, stage for
attacks, cache weapons, and ammo and flee to when engaged. They have
absolutely no regard whatsoever for inflicting civilian casualties. [Women
and civilian men are all considered expendable to Allah] They will terrorize
locals and murder without hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to
the Americans. Kidnaping of family members, especially children, is common
to influence people they are trying to influence but can't reach, such as
local govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.. The first thing our
guys are told is "don't get captured". They know that if captured they will
be tortured and beheaded on the internet. They openly offer bounties for
anyone who brings in a live American serviceman. This motivates the criminal
element who otherwise don't give a **** about the war. A lot of the
beheading victims were actually kidnaped by common criminals and sold to
them. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the death. Surrender is not
an option. The Afghani's are a mixed bag. Some fight well; others aren't
worth a damn. Most do okay with American support.
Finding leaders is hard, but they are getting better. Many Afghani's were
galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the police forces
went right up, along with their motivation. It also led to an exponential
increase in good intel because the Afghani's are sick of the insurgent
attacks against civilians.
Morale: According to Jordan , morale among our guys is very high. They not
only believe that they are winning, but that they are winning decisively.
They are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom
they almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are
despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1
and then see **** like "Are we losing in Iraq " on TV and the print media.
For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food, and
leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, is that there are not
enough guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the
insurgency, primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut
down the borders with Afghanisan and Pakistan. The Iranians and the Syrians
just can't stand the thought of Afganistan being an American ally (with, of
course, permanent US bases there).
Anyway, that's it, hope you found it interesting.
05-14-2011, 03:02 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
This is always a fun topic. I've used the M16A1/A2 and M4 in every environment but under water and outer space. Water. Dirt. Water+Dirt. 78 below zero. 138 above zero. 0 percent humidity. Almost 100 percent humidity. Sea level. 12,000 feet above sea level. With bad guys. Without bad guys. For almost 25 years.
No, it's not perfect. Here's a newsflash for you though - neither were the FAL, the G3, the Galil/R4, the AUG, the FAMAS, or the Enfield. No, not even Mr. Kalashnikov's prolific claim to fame is without fault.
For the most part, any battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm tends to be a pig. Not only is the rifle heavy, so are the rounds. Now, in the hands of competent marksman (someone NOT prone to the "spray and pray" method), fewer rounds carried are not a handicap when a higher percentage of said fewer rounds are delivered on target. Not everyone's a SEAL or an Operator though, with the luxury of other than mediocre experiences on a crummy qual range, maybe twice a year at best.
While sheer wall-busting, window-blasting power is lost with the 5.56x45mm, the trade-off obviously is that one can carry more ammunition, therefore is able to miss more often in a firefight without necessarily compromising one's mortality. But, of the guys I've seen shot with the 5.56mm and survive (yes, a higher number than I'd have liked, particularly when they hadn't quite yet given up the fight), I'd guess that around 90 percent of them would still have been fighting had they been hit with a 7.62x51. A hit in the extremity is not going to stop most of our Marines and Soldiers, and certainly isn't going to stop a bad guy high on weed, khat, or opiates. Is there a lesson? Drill Sergeant always said "center mass". Drill Sergeant wasn't kidding. Sloppy shooting doesn't kill bad guys. You cannot miss fast or often enough to win a firefight.
As far as the AK goes - Yup, it goes "bang" when it's filthy. You think the 5.56x45mm is useless? Try something in 5.45x39mm. If you found that 25 meter accuracy with a Daisy Red Ryder met your standards, you'll be familiar with the accuracy potential of nearly all but the high-end (IMI and Valmet) AKs. Short sight radius is an inherent limitation with most AKs. The medium-power 7.62x39mm isn't the bruiser one might think, and is certainly not to be compared with the 7.62x51 (try 7.62x54mmR for comparison there instead).
Now, as far as the 9mmx19 goes... If you find yourself in a position that you're faced with using a pistol, and I don't care if it's a .454 Casull, something went severely south somewhere. Pistols are good for traffic cops - not exactly a beanbag round, but certainly not permanently debilitating like an M240 is. Those familiar with the concept of EOF recognize the utility of the M9.
On the other hand, let's not discount the role that inept or firearms-averse leadership has on the ineffectiveness of small arms. In 2003, I found myself part of the process that would alter the careers of three officers whose Soldiers I'd found with: M16A2s duct-taped together (x2), M16A2s tied together with 550 cord (x3), and M16A2s so dirty that at first I thought they'd been painted tan (x3). I somewhat suspected that said officers probably found every excuse in the book to avoid Joe handling his assigned weapon at all. Holy crap, Joe might hurt himself! If Joe can't take care of his weapon, Joe's weapon can't take care of him.
And of the subject of "battlefield pick-ups", on more than one sad occasion, I found myself reading DCPS messages where someone had picked up an AK or a Makarov and sent their buddy home in a box by accident. I have personal experience having to duck when a senior non-com who'd armed himself with a cool-looking (but otherwise wholly unfamiliar) Sterling SMG poked holes in the roof of our tent with it ... accidentally.
No, I was happy with the M16/M4. Never had one give me cause to cuss it.
No, it's not perfect. Here's a newsflash for you though - neither were the FAL, the G3, the Galil/R4, the AUG, the FAMAS, or the Enfield. No, not even Mr. Kalashnikov's prolific claim to fame is without fault.
For the most part, any battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm tends to be a pig. Not only is the rifle heavy, so are the rounds. Now, in the hands of competent marksman (someone NOT prone to the "spray and pray" method), fewer rounds carried are not a handicap when a higher percentage of said fewer rounds are delivered on target. Not everyone's a SEAL or an Operator though, with the luxury of other than mediocre experiences on a crummy qual range, maybe twice a year at best.
While sheer wall-busting, window-blasting power is lost with the 5.56x45mm, the trade-off obviously is that one can carry more ammunition, therefore is able to miss more often in a firefight without necessarily compromising one's mortality. But, of the guys I've seen shot with the 5.56mm and survive (yes, a higher number than I'd have liked, particularly when they hadn't quite yet given up the fight), I'd guess that around 90 percent of them would still have been fighting had they been hit with a 7.62x51. A hit in the extremity is not going to stop most of our Marines and Soldiers, and certainly isn't going to stop a bad guy high on weed, khat, or opiates. Is there a lesson? Drill Sergeant always said "center mass". Drill Sergeant wasn't kidding. Sloppy shooting doesn't kill bad guys. You cannot miss fast or often enough to win a firefight.
As far as the AK goes - Yup, it goes "bang" when it's filthy. You think the 5.56x45mm is useless? Try something in 5.45x39mm. If you found that 25 meter accuracy with a Daisy Red Ryder met your standards, you'll be familiar with the accuracy potential of nearly all but the high-end (IMI and Valmet) AKs. Short sight radius is an inherent limitation with most AKs. The medium-power 7.62x39mm isn't the bruiser one might think, and is certainly not to be compared with the 7.62x51 (try 7.62x54mmR for comparison there instead).
Now, as far as the 9mmx19 goes... If you find yourself in a position that you're faced with using a pistol, and I don't care if it's a .454 Casull, something went severely south somewhere. Pistols are good for traffic cops - not exactly a beanbag round, but certainly not permanently debilitating like an M240 is. Those familiar with the concept of EOF recognize the utility of the M9.
On the other hand, let's not discount the role that inept or firearms-averse leadership has on the ineffectiveness of small arms. In 2003, I found myself part of the process that would alter the careers of three officers whose Soldiers I'd found with: M16A2s duct-taped together (x2), M16A2s tied together with 550 cord (x3), and M16A2s so dirty that at first I thought they'd been painted tan (x3). I somewhat suspected that said officers probably found every excuse in the book to avoid Joe handling his assigned weapon at all. Holy crap, Joe might hurt himself! If Joe can't take care of his weapon, Joe's weapon can't take care of him.
And of the subject of "battlefield pick-ups", on more than one sad occasion, I found myself reading DCPS messages where someone had picked up an AK or a Makarov and sent their buddy home in a box by accident. I have personal experience having to duck when a senior non-com who'd armed himself with a cool-looking (but otherwise wholly unfamiliar) Sterling SMG poked holes in the roof of our tent with it ... accidentally.
No, I was happy with the M16/M4. Never had one give me cause to cuss it.
05-14-2011, 08:23 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Other than the special forces, it seems firearm training for other military personnel leaves a lot to be desired. I have witnessed numerous military and former military who did not have sound fundamentals. The same can be said for most law enforcement. Sound fundamentals have the potential to make a shooter quicker and more accurate. If you know someone in the military or law enforcement, they may want to consider looking for an experienced certified firearms instructor who can teach them skills that may save their life. Notice the sound fundamentals of Todd Jarrett. Also notice how there is very little muzzle flip which helps with speed and accuracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUVHNJNPLHc&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOExrxtKvio&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uFQtbl_ZnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncg9iFgT7GA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUVHNJNPLHc&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOExrxtKvio&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uFQtbl_ZnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncg9iFgT7GA
05-16-2011, 06:00 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Yes, but it is something that works very well for him. There is less movement needed which makes it more efficient and the potential to be quicker. He also never has anything come between his eyes and the sights using this method.
08-19-2011, 11:35 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kansas City Region
Posts: 161
As a field MP for the Marine Corps, we typically had 1 rifle qualification during the year. About a month berfore the fiscal year ended we would take our M9 for qualification and use 'em or lose 'em (using our supply of rounds so that admin does not see we have more than we need and cut supply costs.) On the other hand we frequently visited the machine gun ranges and had some teams that kept up infantry CAT teams while training at 29 Palms. I personally spent a lot of time behind a HMMWV mounted Mk 19, which was probably my favorite machine gun.
