Savage and H&R Slug Guns, impressed
 

Ok.. I wasn't going to post cuz I replies to a few threads already... But have already got a few pm's asking for information.. So here is my post on this subject.

I am by no means a gun expert and not an expert shot either. But I have had quite a few slug guns in my past, some very expensive ones. All have been 12 ga. though..

I recently bought two 20 ga. slug guns. I bought a H&R USH with a thumbhole stock and I bought the newer Savage 220F, black slug gun.

After running through many different kinds of slugs (maybe 10 different) I have found that the Remington Premier Accutip 3" Slugs are shooting the best out of my two guns. Not a surprise on the faster twist Savage, but kind of surprised at the USH being that is has a slower twist rate bbl.

Either way, the H&R is topped with a VXII 3-9x40 and I have the tigger just below 3 lbs. The Savage is topped with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 and I have lapped in the bolt and the accutrigger is breaking just a touch over 3lbs.

The H&R is shooting consistent 1" groups at 100 yards. The Savage 220f is shooting consistent 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. I went out today and just zero'd both guns for the deer season this year. I zero'd them at 100 and they both shot about a 1", 3 shot group close enough to center for me.
Only down side it seems like the 20's peter out quickly after 100 yards. I can group at 200 yards but I'm about 13 inches low.

I will post a couple pics of the targets like some have asked. Oh, and these groups are from a bench with sand bags, gun rested on my shoulder. mid 70's, light cross winds...

Pics to follow

Ok.. So a few pics, I am no photographer either.. But I tried.. lol

I have the H&R using Hornady SST slugs, and getting great groups, my next purchase will be the 220

I ordered the black one for 429 they tried for 3 weeks to get it and could not. This is in July. He sold me the camo one he had in the store for the same price. It was marked 469.

ive been reading alot about the h&r and also that 220f. im really liking the savage.. i have the model 93r in .17hmr and i love that gun. ive always been a remington man but i really like those accutriggers. by next gun season i hope to have a 220f. with the rate these slugs are improving 200 yards wth a 20 ga is no longer a dream. currently i have my remington 870 express set up as a slug only gun. i have the hastings 24" barrel and leupold mount and nikon 3x9. i would like to get the barrel pinned and thought about sending it to tar hunt for the conversion but i figured ive already bought the barrel and mount and no sense wasting the money. i finally found some slugs it liked and dropped a 200# buck last season at 170 yards with the setup with a single 3" winchester sabot. the xp3 didnt want to group for and i assumed it was because i was shooting a 2 3/4 in a 3" chamber. the sst out to 150 grouped well for me and that surprised me being 2 3/4. but this 220f looked real nice and im itching to add it to the collection

My buddy has been borrowing my backup 870 slug gun the past few seasons. I made him just purchase a 220f. He paid $525 for the black stock.
They were $475 a couple of months ago, he put if off and now paid a premium. The good news is I'll be sighting it in for him. Can't wait!
I'll try the SST and the Federal Barnes. I know the Barnes pattern well because my other buddy has a 220f. His 9 year old took a doe at 17 yds and a yote at 51 yds last night during the youth gun season.

I alway preach to shoot as much as possible. My buddy who has been borrowing my 870 missed a few deer last year under 75 yds. He was blaming the gun was off. He comes back to camp bitching, I took the gun, gave it to another buddy to test fire it at a pumpkin at 50 yds off hand.
Ummm!

1" and 3/4" groups at 100yds is insane for a slug! that's awesome, I'm getting a 220F when I can!

I thought I read somewhere that the rem accutips were designed for the slower twists of the rem barrels, etc...something like that, but I think that was in relation to the 12gauges, I think there may be more variance in the 12's than the 20's, in regard to twist rates.

13" of drop from dead on at 100 to 200 doesn't seem that bad to me, bullets drop, and slugs going 2000fps are a big difference from bullets going 3000+ fps

how good are those groups at 200? even if you could get good groups at 150...

" 1" and 3/4" groups at 100yds is insane for a slug! that's awesome, I'm getting a 220F when I can! "


+ 1 ...............and rifles are legal in CA.


BTW - That's a good shot off hand !

What scope bases and what size rings are you all using on your 220F?

I sighted my mine in at an inch or so high at 150 yards. It is dead on at 200 shooting at a 5 inch circle. I shot 3 shots and they were all within an inch of each other. It was a little windy to. I shot the Rem. 3 inch accutip. I found a site that has the shells for 11.99 per box if anyone wants it.

My buddy used Leupold bases and rings:

55741 for the bases
49904 for the rings He went with the high rings to ensure no contact with the scope when ejecting shells

bb

Thats good shooting. I have been toying with a Sav 210F and will buy the 220F in the next 6 months.





Complete with bedded action and barrel, comb riser kit, accu trigger, bolt lift kit w/new extended bolt, VXII 3X9X40, Leupold quick detach rings, flushed mag well.... Shooting the Rem 2 3/4" Core lokt ultras and accu tips the best.

Savage 220F

There is a lot of drop at 200 yards, I did shoot a few shots at 200 and if I remember right they were perfectly inline but just low, I didn't measure but I'd guess under a 2" group. Personally I'll likely never hunt out to 200 yds with the 20 ga...

I used the EGW base that is made for this gun, gives lots of adjustment. I would never mount a scope high, I always try to mount them as close to the bbl and in your line of sight as possible. I lopped the front part of the base off (it's pointless to me) and used a Low Burris Zee Ring, to hold the Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40. I was able to get the scope back far enough, low enough and have never had any ejection issues.

As far as what I paid, I'm going to be honest and say I don't remember.. But I'm pretty sure it was in the mid 400 range, was just retail price.. Hard to find so I didn't argue..

I havent been on these forums for years, but just recently decided to finally by a slug gun (been using my ml for all of gun season). Which brought me back to this site for reviews. The top two I'm thinking about are the 220F Savage and the H&R Ultra Slug Hunter Deluxe 20ga. I might start another thread but for now just soaking up all the info I can find.

This thread has focused mainly on the 220F. What were your thoughts on the H&R?

Sounds like the accuracy your getting between the two are very close, and both sound very capable deer guns. To me they seem on equal grounds except for the 220F having 2 more shots for about a $150 more. I want to like the Savage better but right now it might be more of a $ issue for me. How does the quality and fit and finish of the H&R compare? I noticed its a tad heavy... any concerns there?

I have the H&R Ultra Deluxe in 20ga. topped off with a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40, using Hornady SST Slugs, this shotgun is a tack driver, yes it is much heavier then the Savage, but then I sit in a treestand so weight of the gun isn't that much of a problem, the finish/stock on mine is great, no problems. I'm buying the Savage 220F soon, I did shoulder the gun at my local shop, the bolt is smoother then I thought it would be, the stock is very toy like to me, but that is the least of my problems, I will be topping off the Savage with the same model scope I have on my H&R. As far as which one is better, I don't know, the way my H&R shoots I can't see the Savage being alot better maybe alittle better if that, but at least the same. I'm in no rush to purchase it, and really I don't even need it, I just want it. If money is a issue then get the H&R and put a good quality scope on it

The accutrigger is a huge plus for the 220F! My H&R trigger was heavy out of the box, there is a way to make it lighter and mine is good now. But just the fact that you can easily adjust the savage at home is a plus.. And with that being done it's safe and has no creep..
Have heard of issues with the H&R misfiring, stocks coming loose and scope mounting holes being drilled off center.. With that said the one I bought is fine but I usually check all of that kind of stuff anyway. Mine is really accurate and with a little extra bench time I would not be surprised if it outshot the savage, but it is very close either way and currently the savage has the upper hand on groups.

I feel like the H&R is a really accurate but heavy slug gun that may have a couple issues that are easily overcome. I feel that the savage 220F is a rifle that just happens to shoot 20 ga. slugs.. lol Plus I was able to mount my scope much lower on the savage which is more in my line of sight and more comfortable.. So as you can tell I love both guns but I have to give the upper hand to the savage.. Not because you get an extra slug in the box mag but more for the reasons above..

Good Luck!

Thanks bowhunter and demoil for the responses.

I Think it may boil down to what I can get and price. I could borrow the scope off another gun to save a bit and get the Savage, and then a new scope next year perhaps. But havent ruled out the H&R either. After some more searching and reading here is what I have to compare...

Savage:
+slightly more accurate (though for deer hunting either seem great)
+accutrigger
+lighter (alot of my hunting is drives)
+2 more shots
+savage longer history of quality
-I think a ~$500 gun should have something avail other than plastic. Whatever happen to guns made out of nice walnut?
-a bit more pricey (but probably worth it)

H&R
+love the thumbhole laminate stock option!
+save a few bucks, maybe get a better scope
~nearly as good accuracy
~dont really need the extra shots
~extra weight might help with recoil?

Would there be much difference in recoil between the two with similar rounds?

Any other pluses or minuses anyone has for either?

bull barrel helps with accuracy, and the weight helps with recoil, then the 20ga. really has little recoil

I figured this, but how does it compare to the savage? I've not shot a 20 guage that I can recall, and I've never shot sabots before in a shotgun but I figured the sabots would be more equal between 12 and 20 than slugs. I guess its all moot anyhow if the 20's dont have much kick anyhow.

I would compare a 20ga. recoil to that of a .50 muzzleloader, really nothing.

Well it may still depend on availability but I think I've decided on the H&R 20 USH if I can get the thumbhole laminate stock. Thats two things I have always wanted and never had yet - a thumbhole stock and a laminate stock. The Savage comes in either black or camo plastic, had both, just cant get over the cheap feel of plastic. I can't beleive they dont have something else for it for such a nice quality gun. Maybe some 'aftermarket' company should make stocks for em...

Just picked up 3 inch accutip for 11.99 per box at ables ammo if anyone needs any.

I put the Savage to the test Sat. I dropped a doe at 220 yards with the new toy.

Damn Parrot what a shot, congrats...what ammo and size are you using?

3 inch accutip from Remington, if you can find them

Congrats, thats a long shot for a slug gun! Even with as accurate as these guns are how far do you all think they have enough energy? I wasnt figuring much more than 200 yards, but I just pulled that out of the air.

I shot mine today for the first time! Will take a little more practice to get my groups tighter, plus some other issues I'll post another thread about. If I dont exclude any of the shots that seemed further then they should, my max pattern at 100 yards was about 4" but I feel like most the shots were sub 3" which better corresponds to my first two groups at 50 yards that were a tad of 1". Some room for improvement but plenty good for a 100 yard deer gun for now, and the season is next week for us.

What do you all recommend for lubing the action? I have some remmington dry lube spray is that good stuff? Want to make sure to keep this one in tip top shape, hope it will be my slug gun for life.

I am hearing rumors Savage is comming out with the 212f.
12 ga with the accutrigger. Will be at the Shot Show.

bb

Guess that answers my question ...." why is everybody only talking about 20 gauge?".

I will tell you this I could not any Rem accutip anywhere no one has them. I could only find Hornady. I could not get them to pattern past 50 yards. Even at that far it was horrible. So bad I got the ML back out. So shells do make a the difference.

ol eagle eyes you get my message I senty you?

you can put the accutrigger on the 210f in less than 30 mins. Installed on mine and love it. Only other person I know with it done is Neo on Shotgunworld.

Dave

I've been experience I pretty high rate of jamming with mine... while target practicing it was maybe 1/3rd the time, the two shots I had at live targets the first one required a bit of fiddling to get the second round chambered and the big buck that took off running after I shot I wanted to get a second shot so I operated the bolt 'like I mean it' (which is usually what folks say works the best), that proceeded to jam the second shell like I really really mean it. After the buck dissapeared and I still had a stuck round I figured I'd have to get it unjammed on the bench back at the house. But another 30 seconds of prying and I finally got it. So in the field its a 100% jam rate at this point. I think when I carry it again if I can't resolve the issue I'm just going to put the clip in empty. Shouldnt need a second shot anywhere, my buck just took off and I wasnt sure, but he was indeed hit and downed just out of sight.

yep sorry I dont get on the forums every day.

Yeah I can't find the Accutips anywhere either but I was able to get the Federals on cabelas and then came across them at the local store and were actually $4 cheaper per box so lucked out there.

Here is my last 5 shot 100 yard group using the led sled and 3" Fed eXpanders...
4 touching

Have you contacted Savage for your replacement Clip yet? It holds the rounds at a slightly better angle so they do not angle up as much. This keeps the second and third shot from catching the brass where it meets the bolt of the shell coming out of the chamber.

I wasnt aware of a different clip. I did just get the gun a month ago, would it not have the latest clip design?

Also, my dad suggested that loading the clip to capacity might be causing to much tension he suggested just putting one round in it. I have not tried it yet, anyone tried that yet?