The next big thing!!
11-06-2008, 01:25 PM
#31
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 37
RE: The next big thing!!
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
So a whole 7 thousandths of an inch makes the 280 a real performer over the .270huh?
Like what. What would be more adaptable?
We already have every conceivable bullet diameter and velocity covered that can be shot from a portableshoulder fired gun.
Pushing a bulletat "X" velocity from case design "A" is the same as pushing that same bullet at the same velocity from case desigh "B". What is there to adapt? You said so yourself about the 30TC essentially being a .308 Win. with different powders. Oh, except that it is suppose to achieve the velocity of the 30-06.I guess they adapted their powders huh?
So a whole 7 thousandths of an inch makes the 280 a real performer over the .270huh?
but sooner or later were gonna have to get out of the box and make something even more adaptable...people
We already have every conceivable bullet diameter and velocity covered that can be shot from a portableshoulder fired gun.
Pushing a bulletat "X" velocity from case design "A" is the same as pushing that same bullet at the same velocity from case desigh "B". What is there to adapt? You said so yourself about the 30TC essentially being a .308 Win. with different powders. Oh, except that it is suppose to achieve the velocity of the 30-06.I guess they adapted their powders huh?
Look, im not looking to pick fights on here or stir up the pot, but poke me and i'll not sit idly by.
11-06-2008, 01:37 PM
#32
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 37
RE: The next big thing!!
ORIGINAL: popeye
As much as I love my 280 I can't honestly say that there is enough difference between it and a 270 that anyone would ever notice.
If you want more energy at longer ranges with similar recoil , you need to increase the caliber and weight of the bullet. For instance, a 338-06 shoots a 200gr bullet at similar velocity and tragectory as a 30-06 shoots a 180gr bullet and with simliar recoil but the 338 bullet will hit harder when it gets there.
As much as I love my 280 I can't honestly say that there is enough difference between it and a 270 that anyone would ever notice.
If you want more energy at longer ranges with similar recoil , you need to increase the caliber and weight of the bullet. For instance, a 338-06 shoots a 200gr bullet at similar velocity and tragectory as a 30-06 shoots a 180gr bullet and with simliar recoil but the 338 bullet will hit harder when it gets there.
11-06-2008, 02:09 PM
#33
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: The next big thing!!
I am not poking you. Meerly having a conversation about this stuff and trying to understand your reasoning behind your statements.
I know they adapted their powder... that's why I said they did.
So going to back to your first post you said that a 280 is real performance over a .270. They are both based on the same 30-06 case and the difference is .007" in bullet diameter and bullet weight. Both firing the same weight bullet you are talking about a 40 - 60fps advantage for the .280 over the .270. I don't see the "real performance" factor here.
What you are wanting isn't possible. You can't fire a 180 grain, 30 caliberbullet at 3000 fps and expect it to recoil like a .243. Aside from the powder charge weightbeing a very very minor factor in recoil, the physics is a simple as it gets. Fire a given weight bullet at a given velocity and you will have a specific ammount of recoil. Change the design of the case all you want, orget rid ofit all together, but it isn't going to change the recoil of the rifle assuming the use of the same rifle.
The 338-06 firing a 200 grain bullet at the same velocity as a 30-06 firing a 180 grain bullet WILL have more recoil than the 30-06.
I think that bullet design has come quite a long ways in the recent years. Bullets like the Barnes, North Fork, TBBCT, XP3, etc... have allowed hunters to shoot lighter weight bullets than previous and expect the same or evenbetter performance as the much heavier lead bullets of years past.
I know they adapted their powder... that's why I said they did.
And yes, 7 thousands of an inchcan make a difference, especially when you consider the other factors that go into cartridge developement, like case design. Consider the wsm's, wssm's, and the saum's...they didnt even change caliber, just case design.
What you are wanting isn't possible. You can't fire a 180 grain, 30 caliberbullet at 3000 fps and expect it to recoil like a .243. Aside from the powder charge weightbeing a very very minor factor in recoil, the physics is a simple as it gets. Fire a given weight bullet at a given velocity and you will have a specific ammount of recoil. Change the design of the case all you want, orget rid ofit all together, but it isn't going to change the recoil of the rifle assuming the use of the same rifle.
The 338-06 firing a 200 grain bullet at the same velocity as a 30-06 firing a 180 grain bullet WILL have more recoil than the 30-06.
I think that bullet design has come quite a long ways in the recent years. Bullets like the Barnes, North Fork, TBBCT, XP3, etc... have allowed hunters to shoot lighter weight bullets than previous and expect the same or evenbetter performance as the much heavier lead bullets of years past.
11-06-2008, 03:11 PM
#34
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 37
RE: The next big thing!!
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
I am not poking you. Meerly having a conversation about this stuff and trying to understand your reasoning behind your statements.
I know they adapted their powder... that's why I said they did.
So going to back to your first post you said that a 280 is real performance over a .270. They are both based on the same 30-06 case and the difference is .007" in bullet diameter and bullet weight. Both firing the same weight bullet you are talking about a 40 - 60fps advantage for the .280 over the .270. I don't see the "real performance" factor here.
What you are wanting isn't possible. You can't fire a 180 grain, 30 caliberbullet at 3000 fps and expect it to recoil like a .243. Aside from the powder charge weightbeing a very very minor factor in recoil, the physics is a simple as it gets. Fire a given weight bullet at a given velocity and you will have a specific ammount of recoil. Change the design of the case all you want, orget rid ofit all together, but it isn't going to change the recoil of the rifle assuming the use of the same rifle.
The 338-06 firing a 200 grain bullet at the same velocity as a 30-06 firing a 180 grain bullet WILL have more recoil than the 30-06.
I think that bullet design has come quite a long ways in the recent years. Bullets like the Barnes, North Fork, TBBCT, XP3, etc... have allowed hunters to shoot lighter weight bullets than previous and expect the same or evenbetter performance as the much heavier lead bullets of years past.
I am not poking you. Meerly having a conversation about this stuff and trying to understand your reasoning behind your statements.
I know they adapted their powder... that's why I said they did.
And yes, 7 thousands of an inchcan make a difference, especially when you consider the other factors that go into cartridge developement, like case design. Consider the wsm's, wssm's, and the saum's...they didnt even change caliber, just case design.
What you are wanting isn't possible. You can't fire a 180 grain, 30 caliberbullet at 3000 fps and expect it to recoil like a .243. Aside from the powder charge weightbeing a very very minor factor in recoil, the physics is a simple as it gets. Fire a given weight bullet at a given velocity and you will have a specific ammount of recoil. Change the design of the case all you want, orget rid ofit all together, but it isn't going to change the recoil of the rifle assuming the use of the same rifle.
The 338-06 firing a 200 grain bullet at the same velocity as a 30-06 firing a 180 grain bullet WILL have more recoil than the 30-06.
I think that bullet design has come quite a long ways in the recent years. Bullets like the Barnes, North Fork, TBBCT, XP3, etc... have allowed hunters to shoot lighter weight bullets than previous and expect the same or evenbetter performance as the much heavier lead bullets of years past.
I know what i want doesn't seem to be possible...physics and all, whichwill never really be simple, but by the same token, many things that are possible today were not possible even 10 years ago...its not that we change the laws of physics, we just learn how to better manipulate them...that was my point when with my original post..that I would like to see something like this as the next big thing vs laundry detergent that makes camoflage not glow or gumoflage 2.0 or treestands with built in flashlight....
11-07-2008, 08:53 PM
#35
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 493
RE: The next big thing!!
Maybe Barret will design a 50 cal hunting rifle with wheels to carry it's 35 lb weight. This way it will be possible to shoot elk at 1500 yds and no one will have to hunt anymore! Just drive around untill you spot one and roll it out and shoot, But the hunting bullets will need to be filled with salt just to prevent the carcass from spoiling while you attempt to reach it.
11-09-2008, 01:04 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 1,408
RE: The next big thing!!
ORIGINAL: bronko22000
Who knows. And I don't know what they are doing to this new propellant to give these 'small' cases the same MV as the old reliables like the 338 Win Mag. and 300 Win Mag with similar pressures.
I think if they made this propellant available to the public you could probably get pertty close to these same ballistics out of your bolt action 308. Can you imagine something like a bolt action 358 win with this new powder. With - say - 25% increase in MV/Eng without any increase in pressure? That would be one heck of a round.
Who knows. And I don't know what they are doing to this new propellant to give these 'small' cases the same MV as the old reliables like the 338 Win Mag. and 300 Win Mag with similar pressures.
I think if they made this propellant available to the public you could probably get pertty close to these same ballistics out of your bolt action 308. Can you imagine something like a bolt action 358 win with this new powder. With - say - 25% increase in MV/Eng without any increase in pressure? That would be one heck of a round.
Some of it has to do with the shorter geometry of the cases, they are slightly more efficient. Nothing you do to a 308 will make it into a 300 WSM. And few people are truly able to get the 300 WSM up to exactly the velocity of a regular 300WM, it's usually about 100 fps short.
