devil dog

Well after all theese years, ...Deleted by CalHunter... there is a reason for them listing barrel lengths they used for theese rounds, its called velocity change through length of barrel, the longer the barrel, the higher the velocities. So if you happen to be loading a round for a 18" carbine useing the info for a 26" barrel, your not going to gain the same results, in some cases, if you select the wrong bullet designyou will not have the energy to make the bullet do its job!, expanding,thus makeing a long drawed out death because of poor bullet performance.This is one of the many reasons to reload, a custom round for your rifle, you cant get that from factory rounds. Stubblejumper, I caught my misspelling through your statement!, as for the FMJ though, that is the main reason for them to be illegal to be used for hunting in alot of states. I myself dont concider a FMJ in any acounts to be useful for anything other than target type shooting, only a positive expanding bullet should be used for the takeing of game!.

stubblejumper

The reason for listing barrel lengths,is to provide an estimate of the expected muzzle velocity.However,due to other factors such as barrel and chamber dimensions,the longer barrel will not always provide more velocity with a given load.

Then why post the statement below, if bullet performance is a large factor in how quickly an animal expires?

rbullom

How many of you took Physics. Remember Newton's Law? More speed (velocity) provides for more force. It still depends upon the location of the force as it relates to turning the lights out and how quickly.

Briman

If you believe velocities listed in reloading manuals Gospel, I have a bridge to sell you. I believe in the Gospel according to the Almighty Chronograph.

devil dog

Lets put it this way, if I shot a deer at 150yds with my .300win mag, 180gr ballistic tips travelling at 3100fps in the gut, how fast do you think that animal is going to die, probably a hell of alot quicker if I shot him in the hart dont you think, thats why I say shot placement is the only thing that determins how fast it is going to die. I have killed deer with my 45acp travelling alot slower than that, the reason was because of the bullet design and a shot in the right place.

stubblejumper

The amount of force transferred to the animal depends a great deal on the bullets expansion.A non expanding bullet transfers much less force into the animal than a bullet that expands to twice it's diameter or more.

stubblejumper

Now shoot two deer in the lungs with exactly the same shot placement,one with a ballistic tip and one with a FMJ.Using your theory that only shot placement counts,both should die in exactly the same amount of time.Do you believe that they will both die at the same time?Why not?

devil dog

Get off the FMJ wagon, we are not talking about them, we are talking about hunting bullets, ok you win!, I shot a deer with a 165gr FMJ in the gut, he would still expire quicker if I shot him in the hart!!!

Pavomesa

Fellows, I've got a real simple way to conclude this discussion. All you "enlightened hunters" who believe there is no such thing as bullet performance and an FMJ is as good as anything (And cheaper too!) stop buying all these expensive bullets and hunt exclusively with FMJs! Maybe that will make the price drop on the other stuff for the rest of us.

And all you fellows who don't believe there is such a thing as hydrostatic shock, the next time you cut open a deer, elk or whatever, I want you to take a good look around inside the chest cavity and ask yourself what caused that huge bloodshot ring extending 8-10 inches out from the exit wound?[:-] You bullet was perhaps only .308" in diameter. Perhaps it expanded to 1/2" in diameter. So tell me what the devil the rest of the wound is caused by?

Take your time. Don't rush your answers. But I submit that anyone with one good eye should be able to observe that SOMETHING ELSE is going on here. Hydrostatic shock IS a reality, my friends. The term wasn't dreamed up by some old coot like me. It was the ballisticians themselves who made up the phrase.

Shooting something with an FMJ isn't much different from stabbing something with an ice pick. Sure it will kill it. But when? Unless a hunter is so highly skilled as my friend SwampCollie, who can slay vast herds of deer each year with "head shots"...then you're probably going to have problems hunting with FMJ. (Not the least of which may be getting heavily fined by the game department for using them.)

But Pavo!!!!!!!!!! What about the AR-15 and such? They are pretty good killers! What about them with their FMJ's?

Answer: Their light little pointy bullets become totally unstable when they hit something. Thanks to the thick jacket covering 95% of the bullet, they can't explode........so they start tumbling. It is the tumbling that creates the wound and does the extra damage. In fact, this tumbling is a fair immitation of an expanding bullet. The only thing that makes them less effective is a tumbling bullet tends to wander around rather than punching through on the path the shooter intended.The problemis you get screwy results.

And this brings us back to all the multi-million dollar companies like Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, etc..........who still foolishly disagree with SwampCollie and believethat there IS such a thing as bullet performance and in fact they base their entire businesses trying to achieve and enhance it.

And this is about all I've got to say on the subject. I'll let SwampCollie have the last word with the jury and try to convince some of you stubborn devils that FMJ's of .17 caliber on upare as good as anything.

stubblejumper

You would make a good politician the way you avoid answering questions.

One more chance.
Now shoot two deer in the lungs with exactly the same shot placement,one with a ballistic tip and one with a FMJ.Using your theory that only shot placement counts,both should die in exactly the same amount of time.Do you believe that they will both die at the same time?Why not?