Remington 870
 

Well, I always thought of the shotgun for hunting deer as an ugly way to get a deer, but now I'm warming up to the idea. Part of my disdain has to do with not having a left hand. I think I will be able to operate the pump action just fine with my prosthesis if I get a vertical foregrip. I can operate a Rem 870 with the standard forend, but not well enough for hunting or trap shooting.

I have a few questions:
1) Can one get an 18.5" rifled slug barrel? It would be nice to have the short barrel for hunting the woods around here.
2) Are all the 870 models from $200 - $600 the same internally(for the same gauge and chamber), or are they different?
3) For a slug gun, do I want 12ga 2 3/4, 3 or 3 1/4" chamber?
4) Also, how does the Mossberg 500 compare to the Rem 870 pricewise?
5) Do 870's have a key lock?

RE: Remington 870
 

The various Rem 870's are well illustrated on their website. Some companies sell various after market parts, but I believe the factory rifled barrel job is 20". The 18" barrels are cylinder bore buckshot tubes. (Pretty crappy for trying to shoot slugs accurately.) The difference in prices, I believe, are due to differences in stocks and finish. Barrel, action and tube are made of the same stuff. I was looking at a police model over $400 and it was because of the finish. I don't think slugs are made in shells over 3". (Anyone more up to date on this, please fill in.) Wish you luck with the forend grip fit! But one shot will probably drop your buck! Don't know about the Mossbergs. Used the 870 alot in corrections and military. Really liked it.

RE: Remington 870
 

The main difference in price is the finish. Stock, barrel, and receiver. Internally, they all work the same.

As for the barrel, you can get aftermarket barrels in that length. Nice thing about the 870, is there are plenty of aftermarket parts for them. Easy to modify.

RE: Remington 870
 

nk,
Yes the 870 does have a key lock.

I have two 500's and one 870.You can just about buy 2 500's(slugsters) for the cost of one 870.

RE: Remington 870
 

Does the 500 or 590 have a key lock?

RE: Remington 870
 

I would suggest a 20 ga if you are thinking about shooting sabots out of rifled barrel. Also have you looked at the single shot H&R/NEF guns. I would think they would work pretty well for you. Mine is pretty short compared to an 870 or 500.

I don't understand what you are asking about when you say key lock? Are you asking if they come with a lock? Most guns you buy now a days will either come with a trigger lock or a cable lock, which is basically a pad lock with a long cable that goes thru the action. They do not have a lock built into them if that is what you are asking. And in most states if they didn't come with one you would be required to purchase a trigger lock. Heck they give them away where I live sometimes.

I am with the others on the 870's as well, the price differences are just in the finnish, they are all built about the same inside. You also might consider a browning BPS, the have a bottom eject and to me a smoother action than the 870. They cost more too though. They also have a better twist rate for the rifled barrels which means they may not be as picky about ammo. Slug guns can be pretty finnicky about what they shoot well sometimes.

I honestly think your best bet would be a used semi auto with a slug barrel Like an 1100 or 11-87. Remington also has the new SPR 453 which will shoot a 2 3/4 inch shell up to 3 1/2 inch shells and is semi auto. It is imported from russia and retails around 300 bucks new. I have been hearing pretty good things about it. The only down side is if it were to break you would probably have a heck of a time getting parts for it. Where as an 1100 or 1187 would be much easier. With no hand to hold onto the foregrip recoil may be an issue for you, and an auto would give you the least amount of recoil.

Something else to consider would be a ported barrel. I had a mossberg with a ported barrel. I didn't notice some much a reduction in reciol, but it really helped with muzzle flip. They are pretty loud though, not as bad as a centerfire or handgun with a muzzle break, but they are louder than a normal shotgun.

Like I said though, your most inexpensive route would be a H&R single shot. Simple to use, very sturdy and fairly accurate. I love mine. And they cost around 200 bucks, some a bit more, some a bit less. Depends on what model you want. Depending on what hand you are missing I would think it would be easy to operate for you.

Good luck,
Paul

RE: Remington 870
 

While deer can be killed with shotgun, it is an inferior choice, IMHO, to be used only if required. Here's why: buckshot is a close range <40 yard proposition, and... slugs hurt to shoot, and sabot slugs are expensive.

I've killed deer with shotgun; I occassionally carry with buckshot early in season, if doing a drive, or later if running dogs and required... but it isn't my first choice.

RE: Remington 870
 

I too have a disdain for shotguns too. Mine is mostly centered around shotgunning for deer being kind of a quick draw sport, sometimes with running deer!

I want the pump for cost and reliability. I know some auto's will function pretty well with almost anything, but I think I would prefer the pump. I want to be able to shoot powder puff clay bird loads through heavy slug loads.

I also think my arm can function it fine. I think I said before that I can function a regular 870 with my hook, but I will scratch the gun up or slip off when pumping fast. With the pistol grip forearrm, that is eliminated.

Wow, you guys are scaring me with all the recoil talk. I have shot a 12 gauge single shot quite a bit before in my youth, but not for 15 years or so. How will a 20 gauge perform on deer? What kind of range can I get out of either a 20 gauge or a 12 gauge slug gun?

The whole reason I'm interested now is to improve my chance of getting a whitetail buck, and because I can build the ultimate shotgun for hunting/claybirds/home defense for like $1200, IMHO.

Oh, I almost forgot. I was asking about the key lock as part of the gun. I realize that some states with questionable leadership require gun locks. Mine does not, yet. New Dem as Governer though so. . . .[:'(] I just don't like them because I think they are a slap in the face to good gun owners. Basically someone is telling me that if I don't have this lock built into my gun, I will be too stupid to make it safe. Also, this same "smarter than the average gun owner, self appointed gun safety wizard" is making me pay forthe gun lockin the cost of the gun. Where will this wizard be when I leave my key at home on opening day? Where will they be when the non-servicable locks rusts up solid and my house is in need of protection? Can I sue this person in a wrongful death lawsuit when my family is hurt or killed in a home invasion? enuf said.

RE: Remington 870
 

I don't know of any of the shotguns you are intersted in that come with built in lock. I have seen this feature on a few handguns, but I honestly couldn't name them by model and maker. Most do come with a lock in the box though. Like I said, it is a padlock with a cable on it that runs thru the action when it is open so the gun cannot be operated. Sort of like a bicycle chain lock. All but one of mine are still new in the baggy because I don't use them.

After your last post I could easily suggest an 870 express or mossberg 500 combo model. They come with both barrels, a fully rifled barrel for deer and smoothbore with interchangable chokes for birds and small game. And a 20 ga is pretty good now a days with the better ammo, but only for a dedicated slug gun. If you want versatility I say go with a 12 ga. Not that a 20 won't work for birds and small game as well, I just feel the 12 is better.

The only limitation a shotgun has over a centerfire is range. They are good out to about 100 yards, maybe a bit farther if you find a load your gun really likes and practice. Recoil is not that bad. Non of my shotguns kick as hard as a centerfire, like say a 30-06, and it's a different kind of a recoil. Not quite as sharp as a centerfire.

I actually don't think slugs kick that hard, I have shot pheasant and turkey loads that kick much harder than a standard slug. I would assume water fowl loads are just as harsh. And I am only 5'3" and weigh 130 lbs.

I live in a shotgun only area, I have never shot at a running deer yet and I don't use buckshot. If you don't want to shoot at running deer don't do it, doesn't matter what weapon you use. The weapon you choose does not effect the animals behavior. If a deer runs every time it gets close to you I wouldn't blame it on the gun;).

Oh, and on a side note, the Mossberg 500 comes with all three chokes and you can get a muzzle loader barrel for it as well. And if you are thinking about scoping it, get a combo with a cantilver barrel that you can mount the scope right to the barrel with. Reciever mounted scopes don't work that well on guns with removable barrels that are not fixed to the reciever.

As far as barrel length goes, most of the slug barrels are fairly short anyway. You won't notice much of a difference between 18 inches and 22 inches in the field, both are fairly short and easy to handle.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on.

Paul

RE: Remington 870
 

Well, the 870 comes with a key lock in the safety. I'm guessing that if I change this out for a big button safety, that fixes that. Anybody know for sure. Sometimes they make these key locks rather permenant.

Yea, I was looking at the combo. If the Mossberg comes with three chokes, that could be a nice deal. Do Mossberg's only come in 24" rifled barrrels? It would be nice if they made a 20".

I do stink, but I always thought it was the other hunter's thrashing arround and talking that kept them on the run. Personally, I don't shoot running game here. Too many other hunters and houses in the background.[:@]

Can you explain why receiver mounted scopes don't work? Is it just switching barrels, and requiring a re-sight in, or is it something else. I was thinking a dot sight like the EO Tech would keep me from getting banged up and make a good sight on either type barrel.

RE: Remington 870
 

Hmm, I've never seen an 870 with a key lock in the safety and I used to own one, as do a few of my friends. I don't remember seeing it the last time I looked at one in a store either, but I wasn't really looking for it either. I see no mention of it on remingtons description of the 870 on the website either. Is this a new feature?

As far as a reciever mounted scope, the barrel on a pump gun is not fixed to the reciever so it can move around, shift and float sometimes. And even if it doesn't when you take it off to switch barrels or clean it then your point of impact will most likely change and you will have to re-sight in your gun again. With the cantilever barrel the scope is fixed to the barrel as one piece so it will come off with the barrel. You just pull the barrel and scope and swap on your bird barrel. When you put the rifled barrel back on the scope is still attached so the zero will hold. Not a bad idea to check it again though.

The first thing you do when you accurize a pump gun for slug shooting is pin the barrel to the reciever. If you were going to buy a centerfire rifle would you get one with a loose barrel?;)

The eotech or other red dot will still work on a cantilever, it will just come off with the barrel is all. You really don't need a sight on a bird barrel. You are really not supposed to look at the barrel when shooting, you should be looking at the game and the gun should naturally point where you look. If you want though you could put some clamp fiber optic sights on the vent rib of the bird barrel. They work pretty nice, I use them for turkey and smooth bore slug guns.

I'll have to go check out a new 870 to look at the new safety feature to see what I think. If it bugs you that much just get a used one that doesn't have it. Probably save half the money as well and the action will already broke in for you:D.

Paul

RE: Remington 870
 

Ok, I just downloaded the owners manual for a new 870 and it describes the safety lock. No big deal really, just a key that lets you turn the crossbolt safety so it won't dissengage unless unlocked. If you don't like the feature just never lock it, pretty simple really. And I doubt it negates the need for a trigger lock legally.

And the only rifled barrels I see listed for mossbergs are 24 inches, so that would be it I guess. 24 inches is not that long though really. However the 870's have 20 inch barrels if you really wanted a shorter barrel. Both are good guns, just go with which ever one apeals to you and and feels right. That is the most important thing. I'm partial to mossberg pumps because I'm little and the bantam models fit me really well. I don't own a pump anymore though. I have a single shot slug gun, an A5 auto and a lever action 410. Oh, and a remington break action 20 ga.

My buddies 870 might have that locking safety feature and I just never saw it, doesn't look like anything real prominant. If it does have it, it sure didn't effect its functioning any. I have shot it several times both turkey hunting and sighting it in with a slug barrel (his is a special purpose super mag turkey model).

Paul

RE: Remington 870
 

I own an 12 ga. 870 with a smooth slug barrel, a rifled cantilever barrel, and a bird barrel. I'll try to answer your questions:

1. They do carry a fully riflediron-sight barrel that is 20". The area I hunt is wide open field but rifles are not allowed, somy gun is mostly set up like a rifle. My smooth bore slug barrel is also 20", but not very accurate (can hit a 12" paper plate at 50 yards). With the cantilever barrel, low end scope and Hornady SST sabots I can shoot a 3" group at 100 yds. So an ugly way to hunt deer? If set up correctly, it will hunt almost like a rifle but not out much farther than 100 yds.

2. Difference in price is finish and refinement. I have the base Express Magnum and it's made to be a work-horse of a gun. It's not that pretty, it's not that fancy, it's not made toimpress the snobs at the gun club. It's made to be an average yet solid gun that will be reliable to the end. The aftermarket support for this gun is staggering. EvenMossberg makes an aftermarket barrel for the Rem 870. Getting a pistol grip or some other grip to work with your prosthesis shouldn't be a problem.

3. The Express Magnum can handle up to 3" shells. I use 2 3/4" and kill deer with it. My buddy uses the same. You shouldn't need more than that.

4. I like the thumb safety on the Mossberg better than the 870 design. Other than personal fit, they are comparable. My father has had a 500 for 20+ yrs. and it still performs.

5. My 870 was a late 90s model so no key lock that I know of. Maybe they added this feature.

As far as recoil, I fire 1 ounce or less slugs/sabots. I tried some 1 1/4 ounce and I think a 1 1/2 ounce and those HURT, to the point that I shot the rest of them and vowed never to buy them again. If you stay at or under 1 ounce in 2 3/4" shells, it's just a normal 12 ga. recoil. The sabot ammo is expensive ($10-12/box of 5 shells) but it taught me to be a better shooter. You don't get so trigger happy at $2/pullso you wait for the one goodshot.

With consideration to your prosthesis, why not look at a Remington 11-87, Mossberg 930 or other semi-auto shotgun that accepts different barrels?The 11-87 has been around forever and can be tricked out just like an 870. The upfront cost would be far more, butyou may be much happier in the end for many years. And a semi-auto will reduce recoil if that is a concern.

RE: Remington 870
 

i would personally buy the Mossberg. i've owned a 870 and i currently have 3 Mossbergs. i like the Mossbergs better. they are cheaper and more dependable, imo

RE: Remington 870
 

Very True!

RE: Remington 870
 

Interesting quote, this. What is it? A pledge of Spartan warriors before Thermopylae, or perhaps the Christian Byzantines holding off the Muslim hordes at the battle of Heiromyak?What? Just curious... sounds very soldierly.


In other news... 870 is a better shotgun that Mossberg, in my world, for this reason: 870s I've shot had better trigger than Mossbergs, and didn't rattle as much.

RE: Remington 870
 

Well, the 870 comes with a key lock in the safety. I'm guessing that if I change this out for a big button safety, that fixes that. Anybody know for sure. Sometimes they make these key locks rather permenant.

Ditto on my 1187 I bought 3 years ago....My Model 597 17 HMR might even be that way

RE: Remington 870
 

possibly to compensate for your hand, the 11-87 is a semi automatic. even though usually used for ducks, they make a deer hunting version

RE: Remington 870
 

I have a 870 in the 12 gauge and love the gun. I have killed numerous deer with this gun, dropped everyone of them in their tracks with slugs!! This gun is VERY accurate with the rifle sights! Good luck!!!!

RE: Remington 870
 

Hello all I just came accross the site today. Great Site!

I have been going back to Indiana to hunt deer with my dad almost every year since moving to Colorado in 98'. I shoot a 2 3/4" Remington 1100 with a hastings cantilever rifled 24" barrel. I used to shoot 2 3/4" Winchester BRI Sabots which grouped 3" at 100 yards. Last year I came accross Hastings Laser accurate slugs. I shot the 2 3/4" mag sabots and was getting under 2" groups at 100 yards. In 2005 I shot 3 deer with 3 slugs. They also have a reduced recoil version in the 12 and 20 ga. Very accurate and 8.99 for a box of 5 from Cabelas.