45-70 ?
 

well theymade the 45-70 legal to hunt with during the primitive season here in MS. using metalic cartidge with smokless powder. Do any of ya'll shoot the 45-70, and if you do whatfactory cartidge does the best at100 to 200 yards.And can you make up a reload that would do better maybe using a lighter bullet,all i seen was a cartidge of 300gr or bigger.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

I could'nt believe it, so I went and checked. Wow!


[hr]


This an approved list that we have for the new public notice on the breechloading sigle shot rifles, kind or type manufactured before 1900 with an exposed hammer, .38 cal or larger.

This list is by no means exclusive. This is just a list comprised of commonly available rifles.

SINGLE SHOT BREECHLOADING RIFLES WHICH ARE PRIMATIVE WEAPONS:

Sharps rifles or replicas
Reminton Rollingblock rifles or replicas
Ballard rifles
Maynard rifles or replicas
Burnside carbines
Frank Wesson rifles
Remington Hepburn rifles
M1873-1888 Springfield (trapdoor) Rifles and Carbines and replicas
Snider (British) rifles or replicas
Wesson & Harrington 1871 Rifles
New England Firearms or Harrington & Richardson Handi Rifles
Winchester M1885 Hi Wall or Lo Wall rifles or replicas (Also Browning B78 or 1885)

SINGLE SHOT BREECHLOADING RIFLES WHICH ARE NOT PRIMATIVE WEAPONS!!!!

Ruger Number 1 and Number 3 (no exposed hammer)
Thompson Center Contender or Encore Carbines (designed after 1900)
Mossberg SSi Single Shot Rifle (no exposed hammer and designed after 1900)

RE: 45-70 ?
 

I have a nef/ h&r buffalo classic 32in. tube. I just love to shoot this gun its has alot of power for one of the oldest. If I was you I would stick with PMC 300 gr rounds they are about in the middle of the power range for factory loads. But if you want to beef it up alittle try some buffalo bore or garrett bullets. they will rock your world .Just make sure your rifle can handle them. That could be very bad for your rifle or you.The remington 405 gr are the best ones to start with to just get you going. They have the least amout of power from the ones i have shot.
The 200 yard shot you are talking about would be hard to do unless you practice alot. I can shoot that far pretty good but it has come from lots of bench time. This is a very good round for deer and you will find between 0-150 yards its hard to beat.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Who in their right mind would consider a Sharps rifle a primative weapon? Especially when it uses a metallic cartridge with smokeless powder.

And then they say that a handi rifle is a primitave weapon but not a TC. What the heck is the difference?????? A handi rifle fires the same cartridges as the TC and uses the same break open design.

And to use 1900 as the "primitave" cut off date. Yeah. like 1900 was anywhere close to being a primative time. Heck, internal combustion engines and automobiles were invented and experimented with as early as the 1600's.

And going by the 1900 cut off date then the 30-30, 30-40 Kraig, 6.5X55, 6.5X50 Jap, 7X57, and a bunch of oterhs should also be legal for "primitive" weapons season. And so should the mauser rifles such as the 98, 96, etc, Winchester 94's, Marlins levers, Savage 99, and a host of other "primitive" but modern rifles

What was their cryteria for being a primative weapon?

RE: 45-70 ?
 

BB, DITTO!

RE: 45-70 ?
 

If you are in Mississippi (I don't think rhinos have migrated there) then I reckon any factory cartridge 300 grain bullets or more will leave a blood trail that Helen Keller could follow. The factory rounds are a bit nerfed but then, what can gracefully survive a 45 caliber round digging in to it at rifle velocities? If you are concerned about needing more pounce, I would check out Buffalo Bore and Garrett cartridges. I have a Ruger #1 in 45 70 these days and it is a delight to shoot.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Bigbulls,

Along those lines, how the hack do they justify allowing in-line muzzleloaders, and smokeless powder cartridges, but not inline muzzleloaders using smokeless powder.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

The .45-70 is a dandy old cartridge. Handloaders can really juice it up in modern rifles like the Marlin 1895. Factory ammo is loaded down considerably to avoid blowing up the older guns that can't take the pressure.
If you do handload for the .45-70 be sure to read all the precautions both in the loading manuals and from your weapon's manufacturer.
My last black bear was taken with a Remington 300 gr and at about 50 yds, looked like it drove the bugger about 3 ft sideways, got up, tried to run and rolled down the hillside DOA.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

I can't say what they had in mind but it looks by reading the list that its single shot breech loading rifles designed before 1900 which all the listed ones are. The exposed hammer thing must leave out the Rugers. I wish they would do that where I hunt. However If its a black powder season then only black powder should be used. Some states call it a black powder season, some call it a primitive season and others call it a muzzzle loader season which should allow any rifle that loads from the muzzles regardless of powder type.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

JC, I don't know. This is one of the stupidest regulations I have ever heard of.

How in the world did this regulation ever pass? Not to mention what idiot thought this one up?

"Kind or type manufactured before 1900."
But todays replica rifles are made of modern steel and are capeable of handling much stronger loadings then were available pre-1900. So it's ok to use a completely modern rifle with powerful modern cartridges so long as it still looks like the original??????? The vast majority of deer killed are killed with a single shot so why not allow every rifle designed before 1900? The single shot has very limited disadvantages and some people find no disadvantage to them at all and actually prefer them over a repeating rifle.

Hell why have a "primitive" weapons season at all any more now that we are allowing centerfire rifles?


It has been proven many times over that the 45-70 out of rifles such as the Sharps and replicas are capeable of taking buffalo at ranges beyond 1000 yards and now they are sudedenly "primitive weapons" ??????? Hell, they even used scopes on them.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Well said James....Well said..

RE: 45-70 ?
 

I wish everystate was like this.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Well said, BB!

RE: 45-70 ?
 

You call that primitive??? Shoot, I got a Marlin Guide gun in 45-70 and with my handloads, there's nothing privitive about it. Yeah, the cartridge has been around for a long time - but privitive is pushing it.
Here in PA our "primitive" season is flintlock only with open sights. And the season starts the day after Christmas when weather conditions aren't optimal for shooting a flinter.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Bout my Favorite close range weapon of choice is my 45-70.. Eventhough I do not re-load you can turn the cartridge into a real screamer.. I can get the 300gr.HP's factory stuff to group at under a inch @ 100yrds..

RE: 45-70 ?
 

You want prinitive season, come on over to PA and do it right. Flintlock only and open, buckhorn type sights. No in-lines during this season and no scopes. Add a nice wet snowfall and you got the makings of a fun outing

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Nah bronko, you want primative, you come down to MD and bow hunt. Anybody can kill with a flintlock.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Or come to FL and hunt them with a spear!

I finally caught up with them and snapped a couple of photos of the victorious hunter with the 80-pound boar and spear. Goldie was fine, and the cut received was a minor one, soon cared for. I put the spear away after that, since Jim had had a bit of trouble with its length in the tangle of briars and vines. He was pretty upset about his pup Sassy not joining in the fight when she got there (she had sat down on her haunches and simply watched the fight), but as it turned out it was a learning experience for her, and she improved as the day went on.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

The only thing more "primitive" I have heard of is jumping down from a tree onto their back and cutting the throat with a knife!! [8D]

RE: 45-70 ?
 

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RE: 45-70 ?
 

I don't know Rebel, Ive been there and done that. Well I was video taping as my brother was doing the cutting. I just felt bad for the poor boar with the pits tearing it apart while knifing

RE: 45-70 ?
 

I quess you have never seen a man tore and cut up by a
boss hog!;)

RE: 45-70 ?
 

You got me there.[:-]

RE: 45-70 ?
 

Guys,
I know one of the people that helped draft this rule. The INTENT of the rule was to allow folks to use Sharps and some of the older, first generation I guess you could call it, models of cartridge rifles during black powder season. The thought was that there weren't that many folks that would fall into this catagory, the repro guns are expensive and the originals hard to come by. The original draft also called for the cartridges be loaded with black powder as well.

Ok, that was the intent, now for what happened. The ruling was poorly written, people that should have known their firearms history let the draft through with the language of "pre 1900 breach lo loading" get approved. Several people, including myself warned the commission that this would allow firearms such as the H&R handi rifles be included as they are pretty much an exact copy of some of the early Wesson break open rifles. That cow was well out of the barn before anyone could do anything about it. Then, the original requirement for the cartridges in this catagory to be loaded with black powder. One of the commissioners, who fancies himself a BPCR specialist, was scared that some poor hunter would blow himself up trying to load up a batch of 45-70s at home (sinch retail black powder rounds can be hard to find and expensive) eliminated this requirment and rewrote the rule to allow smokeless powder.

Now where are we.
Many of the hunting retail stores are very upset. They ordered large inventories of BP guns to be used for muzzleloader season and guess what. Many folks are opting for handi-rifles in 44mag, 45-70 or 38-55, and not buying the front stuffers. This is leaving all the retailers with large selections of guns they can't sell. Handi rifles have become rare and hard to find in calibers larger than .38.

What is going to happen next year?
My guess is that this rule will go back to the way it was. Probably find lots of used, cheap, big bore, breach loading rifles on the market in Mississippi.

Basically, it was a rule with good intentions that got away from itself.
Ironically, one can now use a cartidge rifle during primitive season in Miss, but you still can't use a crossbow during bow season. Go figure.

Hank

RE: 45-70 ?
 

I have a pedersoli sharps replica. I shoot the standard lead 300 grain remingtons. They kick my ass from the stock end of the rifle so I have no doubt they would do the same from the muzzle end to anything you can hit with it. I would not hesitate to shoot ANYTHING ON THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT with this bullet. But I believ 150 yards is the absolute limit. I don't shoot mine at more than 100 yards.
okcmco
PS this load is deadly on hogs

RE: 45-70 ?
 

yeah I've done the " jump on the hog with a butcher knife while the dogs gotta hold on 'im thing" can get intresting:Danybody got any info on a low priced double rifle that chambered for 45-70 and/or .30-06. saw a short report about it somewhere. maybe Spartan or some other co. Kurt.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

That one statement right there creates a big problem for me.

Sounds like the state is wanting to give an advantage to the people with money. Be it the money to buy a replica or the money to collect an original. Either way the average hunter that buys a $300 in line can not come close to afford a Sharps, new or original.

IMHO the people involved with drafting this asanine rule had their heads crammed up their butts right up to their shoulders.

Hopefully Mississippi with rethink this rule and do away with it all together. Honestly you may as well just have one long hunting season with no regard to the killing tool one chooses.

RE: 45-70 ?
 

I bought a Marlin 1895 Cowboy in 45/70 a few years back. I reload to 1900 FPS, 405 gr. hardcast lead bullet. Knocks the snot out of big feral hogs. I love the gun. 10 roundsin the Cowboy, plus 6 more in my Vaquero (.45LC), Ifeel ready for whatever I get myself into. Hogzilla? Bring him on!