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Nuggets 04-24-2020 08:09 AM

Expensive Broadheads?
Hi, I'm from Blighty, so no hunting with arrows over here! I do feel that we have a rich history of such things though. With the lockdown, I have plenty of time to muse the internet. I've started to look towards hunting, I've always had the inclination, but will have to go farther afield when the world issue changes, which gives me time to save. I started looking at Crossbows, although even target shooting with them over here seems to be looked upon as not something you want to be associated with. I know little, except what I read on the internet.

Regards crossbow hunting, I contacted a major brand with questions. They professionally responded, and stated that their, very powerful, product was designed for the bolt to completely pass through the animal. I assume that is to cause more damage and to ensure it bleeds more rapidly, killing the animal quicker, and making it easier to find. I suppose my question is, why would you spend a lot of money on broadheads, if on occasion they are lost to the woods. I see some, Holy Trinity, costing $125 each. I initially thought that long term savings make these an excellent option, but when I read of pass through, hence my contacting the brand, then surely this gets very expensive? Unless you are firing from a high position with ground behind the shot, or have an adequate backstop. Those are not always likely though. Are such Broadheads for much larger game? Bears, Elk, something larger or with denser bone so the bolt is retained in the animal, it then bleeds out / dies from its injuries and the bolt can then be collected.

With firearms, shots cost money, and are a basic outlay over time. My initial expectations were that this would not be the case with crossbow shooting. I do see that there are various items that ensure you can find the bolt, such as LED's, but even so, do people expect to look for the needle in the haystack?

This may be basic, and obvious to you guys, but I thought I'd join and ask.

mrbb 04-24-2020 08:28 AM

welcome to the site, I will try and keep this rather simple, but yet give a lot of info to think about!

like all things in life, when you pay more, some times you pay for the name/brand and other times your paying for different features or finer tuned things and higher end parts.

the point of a broadhead on an arrow or a bolt, or??
when shot at game , is designed to cut!
meaning you just need a sharp edged broadhead, , any design can kill, if placed in the vitals of an animal

the problem or reason there are so many types and different designs and costs of broad heads comes down to,
some broadheads do NOT FLY very well from some things(x box, compound, re-curves and likes )
some times its the set up of the bow being used, , some times itc an even be the shooters
so, many shooters will BUY what they feel fly's the best from there set up to get them the most accuracy out of them

then there is the weight of broadheads, different ones have different weights, which again will matter in how well they fly, carry energy, and or how flat a trajectory they allow for , from a individual's set up!, gravity aerodynamics's and such come into play here as does design of the broadhead in itself!

then comes the material side of the broadhead, this alone can have costs,, some are made of exotic metals and materials, and thus costs for them are what they are, then there is the design of them, some are fixed designs, some are expandable designs, and then there are patents on things, , development of them and so on
all things that add up to costs
some have replaceable blades /tips, and parts, some don't
so, when you PAS thru a n animal, yes a broadhead can be damaged and be useless after this ONE shot!
most hunters are just fine with this, and consider it part of the game

many times they will pass thru and be just fine, minus needing a new edge put on them(resharpening blades or just replacing them, and , replacement blades can also be cheaper or higher costing based on design and brand.make model material)
there IMO is also this side to things,
MOST business's that target HUNTERS, have found out that MOST hunters are very easy to manipulate into buying/spending money, on NEW gadgets and thru marketing adds!
we hunters tend to have a sucker side to us( I mean this as nicely as possible )
that we are always looking for a new trick or edge, or willing to try something new that MIGHT help us be better hunters! and based on this, we are known to open our wallets, and from my experience, archery hunetsr are even mroe so willing to spend $$$ than gun hunters are.

NOW< something a NON hunter, or non archery guy might be able to understand this better is
Think of Tires on your vehicle
there are off brand names and brand names, tries can cost low prices and HIGH prices based on name alone, yet they all are tires
some made of different materials, last longer, are stronger, or by design perform better
yet they can all get flats or damage if they hit something they ain;t made to hit/handle!

same with vehicles, you can buy a cheap vehicle, or one that costs a million bucks, they will both take you to the grocery store< yet one will cost a lot more to do so LOL

hope this maybe helps some!

Nuggets 04-24-2020 08:59 AM

It is good of you to take the time. Yes, in any interest or hobby, people will outlay to further their interest, having something someone else doesn't, or on the expectation of either looking or being better at it. I've always had the mentality to buy something that lasts, rather than a much cheaper item that has to be replaced more. I've noted this outlook even more so the older I get, because the annoyance factor of doing something, going to get something else to complete the task and it then it failing to do its job. Maybe I'm getting a bit cratchety. I'd assume bolts are easier to find. A bullet will strike bone and whang off in any direction, but a bolt I assume should continue on it's path as the shaft will ensure it travels in a certain direction, local to where fired from, in a line on route. So walking that route would more ensure actually finding it in brush.

My understanding has always been that firearms are all about impact force, with blood loss. Crossbow hunting is more about blood loss. Simplistically, a punch versus a knife cut.

Oldtimr 04-24-2020 11:37 AM

Since without a proper and good broad head your bolt is no more than a stick with fletching on it. If there is one place you should not skimp it is the broad head. It has to be matched to your shaft and not plane when fired but fly straight and when it connects it should do a lot of cutting damage since the blood loss and bleeding out quickly is what kills the animal fast and humanely.

mrbb 04-24-2020 11:38 AM

well you would be wrong about an arrow following thru in diresction of impact like
they can hit things from twigs unseen by human eye at time of firing to bones in deer, a deer moving after impact can also send a bolt/arrow into the un known direction, and not staying true to the flight it was taking!

same as a bullet, both can have there path of flight alters both before impact on animal and after!
no real difference here
and as for broadheads, to me, I look at them as disposable items, just like bullets more or less
I shoot one deer with mine and I call it quits on that broadhead
this is,me , many I am sure do not do this

but you also have to consider things like impacts and how they can effect things,
they can throw a broadhead off balance, center or just re sharpening them over and over can change there weights, causing again, differences in flying true and point of aim changes and so on!
I also do this with my bolts and arrows

I keep arrows/'bolts for target practice, and one's for hunting separate!
(again many I know don;t do this)

the one's for hunting get shot few times, just to check to make sure they fly true, and then ONLY get used for hunting
MY feeling are that bolts/arrows that get shot a LOT, weaken over time, can get slight damages-and the time to find out one is on its way down, is not crunch time(and yes any arrow can have issues at any time)
bolts/ arrows , are like helmets , they have shelf lives, and they are not made for repeated impacts, each impact weakens things
metals can get fatigue just like anything else

shooting targets made to catch arrows/bolts have softer impacts and allow for lots more shot's per shaft before any issue can show up
but hit things like bones, rock's, tree's hard ground and so on, in a pass thru on a kill, or missing a target, or for those folks that empty there X boxs into the ground, and you can find, your arrow/bolts shafts have damaged you cannot see, but there there??

so, when it comes to buying things, I personally buy what I feel works best for me, and I used and stop using as I feel fit to
I don;t believe in pushing the limits or my luck, when hunting, spend too much time energy and money in off season to get ready, to be cheap when the final time comes to actually hunt and shoot AT a deer or??? animal~

and again, this is ME, and my way of doing this
I am sure others will disagree, and reuse things countless times and NEVER have a issue

but as in life, some folks also win the lottery, doesn't mean I will if I play!
and then again, you have to PAY to play!

Oldtimr 04-24-2020 02:09 PM

If you were responding to my post, I have no idea what you were trying to say! However saying that the broad head makes no difference in putting as deer on the ground is ridiculous!

mrbb 04-24-2020 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Oldtimr (Post 4374610)
If you were responding to my post, I have no idea what you were trying to say! However saying that the broad head makes no difference in putting as deer on the ground is ridiculous!

well if your referring to me
I will have to disagree
if you place a good sharp broadhead in the vitals, of any brand I know of you will kill the animal!
Indians did it with sharpened rocks way back when
Modern broadheads, are much better I agree, and there is no endless amount of designs and types
the key part of a broadhead is not design , its about placing it where iut needs to go and be sharp to do so

there is no magic broadhead that kills based on its design alone?
it still has to hit a vital and cause damage to kill

I have seen all sorts of broad heads kill from single blade fixed heads, to semi fixed blades, 3-4 blades, expandable ,
they all work when placed right on the animal!

and they ALL can fail if there not placed in a vital, or just fail period(was a issue more with first gen expandable
and yes some are stronger and weaker
but the point is, a broadhead need to CUT and any with a sharp edge placed in vitals will KILL period!
there is NO perfect broad head, nor bullet, placement is key to both!
all the power in the world be it in LBS of a box draw, or LBS of energy of a caliber, don;t make up for poor placement! some HELP< name of game still lies in hitting vitals for fast ethical kills with either!

Nuggets 04-26-2020 12:29 AM

mrbb, yes, but those sharpened rocks were the sharpest edge known to man. If technology has moved on, it took a LOOOOONG time for it to do it! :) I cut myself on flint once, only a small thing, but I just turned to a friend and said, wooah, look at that, can you imagine something like that being wielded by a caveman! Now I knew flint was sharp, I learnt that at school, but it just made it instantly clear to me at that point. I popped on here to get a better understanding and it is good of you both to take the time to do so. I looked about a fair bit, but it is not always easy to find what you need. Moving around the internet adverts, and many articles are just that, the latest sales spiel tells all, but often not what you want to hear. I was aware that arrows could be deflected, as with rifle rounds, but assumed due to the bolt length that it would remain-ish on course, but yes, movement of the animal and all sorts will play their part, even prior to strike.

The fact that mrbb sees them as disposable is of note to me, as that is something that I did not see elsewhere. Perhaps that information is out there, or the majority do not look that way, but it is good to know. I'm sure more than a few sellers of broadheads and other equipment show the thumbs up to that one! I do understand the perspective from that outlook though, as stresses will be there. Many shooters will change their barrels after a certain amount of shots for the same reason. I had heard of people weighing, balancing and checking, as even slight differences have a ballistic emphasis over time and distance, so see the sense. I would guess more that the re-using factor comes down to a value for money outlook by the majority. Perhaps partly a "well it worked alright last time" attitude. I don't know if there are a LOT of crossbow bolts and arrows out there, that have been lost like golf balls in the brush.

bronko22000 04-26-2020 05:53 AM

Nuggets the thing I didn't see mentioned is what game you plan on hunting? Or maybe I missed it. That could make a big difference in the broadhead design. If you plan on hunting those big thick water buffs I would suggest a solid cut on contact broadhead like a G5 Monotec. For smaller game such as deer size its hard to beat a Rage 2 blade. The ones designed for crossbows leave a devastating wound channel.
As far as crossbows go too you don't have to spend $1000 plus on them. I have a CenterPoint Sniper 370 that is super accurate and plenty powerful enough for even the biggest game at 175# draw weight. (I actually have 2 of them - one for my grandson). And the price is well below $300. The money you save on the crossbow you can use to get more bolts and broadheads.
Best of luck

lemoyne 04-26-2020 07:23 AM

One of the things a lot of beginners do not realize is the reason for needing pass a through: an arrow kills by massive hemorrhage this takes time during that time an animal runs so you need a blood trail to follow it. There are a few exceptions such as a brain or spine hit but these are chancy and not normally aimed for. A lot of bow type hunting is done from a tree stand which makes the arrow high on the entrance and low on the exit side the low side allows the blood to flow out much sooner under most circumstances.

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