Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Listen to my words please. 1st shoot every CB your interested in buying before you buy it! 2nd make sure you can cock it, and the company has proper cocking tools that work! 3rd do you need a shop and press to change strings ? 4th can you take it the range or field and if the serving or string becomes unuseable change it out right then ? What happens out on a hunt maybe in another state ? all ofthis stuff happens, will it ruin your hunt, can you find a shop within few hundred miles ? Alot of (Bow) shops won't touch a CB![:o]

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the attitudes (finally!!) are starting to change as far as Xbows and service is concerned. I just had a customer come back from Africa and the place could servicehis compoundcrossbow if needed. Changing servings on a compound Xbow is a simple job of unbolting the bow from the stock and spinning on a serving. Though a press is nessicary for string changes on a compound, if you are that far away from a shop, or the local shop is an idiot, Iusually recomend that you get hooked up with alocal bow club, or start yourown and all of you chip in to by a good press or make your own (it is not that hard).It is surprizing how many compound bows get sold to areas with no shop access and those archersgeneraly are happy to chip in to get a tool to service their bows. Most string failures in the field are preventable with regular inspecition and maintainace. thoughsudden failuresdo happen,strings generaly will start to show wearprior to failure and pre and during season inspection will do more to prevent that from happening than anything else. The cocking issue I realize is directed at the Cyclone, and I hate to say it, but I agree...I have been talking to Parker myself and doing what I can to help design hooks that work the way they should. I have been pretty straight forward about the fact that their rope cocker is poor and what I personaly am doing is exchanging the Parker rope aid from every Cyclone I sell and throwing in an Excal one instead at no charge since it works better.
Wyvern

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Wyvern Crossbow, y'all i am not picking on the compound CB's. i want ppl to read, be aware of everything it takes to enjoy shooting CB's. there are some very nice compound CB's. we need to inform all of whats involved. i want them happy and enjoy their shooting/hunting. not get frustrated with things that can be avoided with planning and knowlege to repair their CB in the field.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

While I agree with both of you, with the possible exception of service not being available, it's no different for modern compound vertical bows. The market is changing so fast that more and more complex equipment is hitting the street. Some of it too soon for thorough testing. Unless you have tried tuning a bow (something that's not necessary with a CB) without knowing what you're doing, you don't know the meaning of frustration. LSS, if you're not handy, plan to have your bow serviced by someone who is....or get an EXCALIBUR. Even then you have to tighten the screws, change the string and remember to put the safety ON.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

I don't know why they make archery gear that won't let you do simple field repairs and maintenance anyway. They started that garbage about 20 years ago and I've never figured out why archers let them get away with it. We used to be smarter than that. "Oh, well yeah. You do need a fully rigged professional grade archery shop just to change the string, and if the string breaks while I'm hunting I'm totally screwed. But it shoots so fast!" :eek:

Competition is one thing. I shot compounds because that's what my sponsors made. But competition is not hunting. If I can't keep it up and running with a spare string, Leatherman and a small set of allen wrenches, I'm not freakin' huntin' with it. That's a big reason you would always see me in the woods with a recurve or longbow in my hands instead of a compound. That attitude, as old fashioned or paranoid as it may be, I've brought along into the crossbow chapter of my archery life.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Arthur -

"I don't know why they make archery gear that won't let you do simple field repairs and maintenance anyway."


Because not everyone is interested in the same thing!

Mike

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

You got that right, Mike. Dealers are interested in having customers bring their stuff back every time they need simple maintenance so they can make some easy money and the manufacturers are interested in helping their dealers toward that goal and keeping them happy... or so it would seem to the untutored.;)

Speaking of which... You guys who are completely reliant on the pro shop to keep your gear working? It's time to get that stuff to the shop and fixed up. RIGHT NOW. If you wait another month, you might not have it back by opening day.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Wyvern Crossbow, y'all i am not picking on the compound CB's."

Never said you were, (though there are some that do) and you did bring up some good points, but I do run into many situations where new people are recomended one specific bow that, though a great product with ease of service and such, is very impractical for this particular new persons hunting situation for whatever reasons and they are now so gun shy about buying anything else that seting them up with a bow that would better suit them becomes an issue. We all have our favorite bows, and all have both good and bad features. The problem becomes when you place the fear that "What happens out on a hunt maybe in another state ? all ofthis stuff happens, will it ruin your hunt". into the new archer. Yes, Stuff happens, but as I stated, proper maintainace goes along way to preventing these issues and though the points you brought up should be considered, they are not the only points... Rabid endorsement of ANY brand does a tremendous disservice to a new archer looking for advice. Listing the pros and cons on these forums is a great help, but I have seen the "Buy brand "X", that is the only one to own...period" comments and that does nobody anygood. State why that brand is your choice and list all the great features, but no one crossbow fits everyone...

Wyvern

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

The point I want to make is that it's just as easy to design a high performance compound bow with field service capability as it is to make one that requires a bow press. Practically speaking, all it would take is using limb bolts about one inch longer. I'd happily pay increase in total bow price to cover the cost for the longer bolts. When you're talking $500 to $2000, what's another 40 cents? Just 40 cents spent to keep me from having to buy a $400 press or pay an extra 20 bucks in labor every time I need to have a new string put on.

Guys that don't want to do their own maintenance and repairs, that's fine. I want the option of doing it myself and that's what I look at when considering a new purchase.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

You make your bed and sleep in it. It's all about the $$$. I would guess that TP, Bowtech and all the others would like for a shooter of their products to never put a wrench, screwdriver or any other tool on their bows but that's not going to happen in the real world. If a person has no experience working on vertical or compound bows he should buy the most simple bow he can find. One would think the dealer would do a little digging to determine what the customer is capable of. Those of us that take matters into our own hands, have no problems changing strings and cables on compound crossbows but we must realize that we are taking responsibility for our actions at that time. I can change strings and cables on any crossbow in my shop without using a large expensive table or floor mounted press andmy limb press issmall enough so thatI can take it on my hunts :-)

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Is it short and strong enough to fit a Cyclone, Tom? Looks like a nice rig but the Cyclone is narrow and very stiff. Their PR says it pulls 165 or 175 lbs (depending on where one looks). No way, it pulls much harder than my 200 lb Ecal. My home made press gets tight as a fiddle when I press it.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

My hurricane peaked out at 169# but with absolutely no let off. (who cares about let off when you have such a sweet trigger!) So I took it to the handy force draw machine and found out that it has no let off at all. From 9" of draw to 15" of draw the lowest weight was 165#.

The only other bow that uses the no let off cam technology patent is a Bear Maxpoint (circa 1999). I wonder if they bought the patent rights off Bear?

The reason that it feels so heavy is the the lack of let off.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Backing out limb bolts is a dangerous game. Bolts are not designed to take a bending moment only axial tension loads. There are a couple bows out there that may let you get away with using over-length limb bolts but I would not do it personally and I am sure that manufacturers would tell you no.

I saw a vertical bow by limb saver that would allow you to break the bow down by using the limb bolts.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

"(who cares about let off when you have such a sweet trigger!)"

Lucky you. It took several honing sessions, and a spring change, to get me that way.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

When you start backing out limb bolts, the lateral tension immediately begins decreasing. By the time you get them out to the point where there might be a danger of them breaking, the load is too light to be a problem... Or wouldn't be a problem if the bolts were long enough. With the too short bolts they're putting in 'em now, the limb is still under a good bit of tension when you get to the end of the bolt. Prior to about 1990, and they started putting more prebend in the limbs without increasing bolt length, all vert bows could be completely disassembled without a press. Just back out the limb bolts. By the time you got to the end of the bolt, the limbs were completely relaxed and falling out of the limb pockets. And those long old limbs had a lot more potential bolt breaking leverage than the short limbs on today's vert bows or crossbows.

Surely I'm not the only old timer here that remembers that.

Even if your premise were correct, it would be a simple matter to just use larger bolts, like 3/8" or even 1/2", which would take more lateral strain without breaking. Naturally, it would take a modest amount of redesign and reprogramming on the machinery to accomodate longer and/or larger diameter bolts, but heck... Being forced to use a press for such a mundane chore as changing a string is, in my opinion, an idiotic design flaw in the first place.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Do NOT back out limb bolts!!!!

I'm going to take the version pictured below to a local dealer that has the new Parker in stock and see if it will work but I see no reason it should not. All you need is 2 Bowmaster split limb adapters (hooks) , ap 24 " inch pc. of chain and 2 "S" hooks from Home Depot and you have everything you need. Pull the bow to half cock, place the hooks over the limb tips with the chain adjusted so when you let the bowstring back down the string is loose and can be removed for maintenance. Put the string back on the wheels/cams making sure it's in the grooves and draw the string back to half cock, remove the hooks and let the bowstring back down to rest position. BTW, that dark section in the middle is a pc. of pipe insulation to prevent damaging the barrel deck.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Absolutely! DO NOT BACK OUT LIMB BOLTS! Vert or crossbow. The current state of design is a disaster in the making for someone trying to do that. Wait until the manufacturers get a clue and fix it. Fat chance of that happening.

Sorry for the soapbox ranting fellas, but I've been pissed about this for nigh on 20 years.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

The only timeI've been hurt with a bow was while tightening a limb bolt on an Astro compound bow years ago. The limb bolt snapped in half and I caught the full force between my legs. My voice was high pitched for a few daysbut it taught me a lesson. Crossbows, IMO, can be quite dangerous if not handled properly because the limbs are under a lot more stress than verticle bows. Treat them with sensible repsect and you won't get whacked.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

I've never had a limb bolt snap, but I never backed off two turns without backing off the other bolt two turns as well. If you screwed one all the way out and left the other all the way in, hell yeah somethings gonna break! There was definitely a wrong way to do it.

What happened to me was getting a pretty bruised wrist when I wanted to change the strings and cables on a Darton Lightning and did the time honored back out the limb bolts routine. The bolt cleared the hole and the limb butt nailed me. It was still under considerable tension. I had to box up the pieces and take it to the shop to get my bow put back together. That's how/when I learned they'd made it so you couldn't do that any more.

I think it's a shame that crossbows are also like that, especially considering how hard it is in a great many areas to find a shop that will work on them... or even let you in the door with one.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

The only sure alternative to going out and not getting a hunt messed up with a breakdown issue is to have a back up xbow in your truck. If I went out of state or even across state I would take 2 with me. A cheap back-up xbow is cheap insurance.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

I checked the Parker Cyclone and Horton Recon today. My rig will work on either. When I hunt SC, I alwaystake 2 crossbows although I could replace strings and cables on either one. I want to spend my time hunting and not maintaining bows. I still take the stuff to work on both of them.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Well, at least we've accomplished one thing with this topic. 3-pager! Doesn't happen that often.

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

How about that!

RE: Warning! To anyone buying a CB!
 

Moonkryket,

That is an interesting portable press. Is it homegrown or a commercially made product?

Thanks,

Bellasdad