GrumpyTom

I have been playing with the Tracer nocks in a couple of my arrows. I think that I will have to adjust the weight of my arrows on the fronnt end. My setups (2216, 2117 & feathers) have always been factory and worked great with 100 grain broadheads, but with the extra 30gr added in the tail seems to have a noticable wobble on the way to the 30 target. I did not have any 125 grain target points with me for a test so I do not know if that would help.

My question is about BRASS INSERTS. By replacing the stock front alumin inserts with a brass insert, what would I gain in added weight (what is the difference between the two). Trying to figure out if it would be earier to go the insert route or just get heavier heads (new heads would be costly ).

Now about the tracers. So far in practice they work real good. They light up every time, Only in bright sunlight are they not noticable. The accuracy is still good (even with the noticable tail wobble in flight), I get about a 2 - 2.5 inch group at 30 yards (not off bench, sitting in a chair and arm resting on knee). Normally my accuracy is about 1 inch groups at 30 yards.

About this tail wobble, I have never noticed it before. It might have been there, but only now noticable because the nock is lighted.

Thanks

Hotburn76

You would gain 78 grains. Brass insert is 110 grain and aluminum is 32 grain.

Dnk

Hey Tom, if you need some let me know and I'll fire some off to you.

Pydpiper

It will interesting to see if the heavier FOC straightens out the arrow, my bet is that it will.
If it does than I will try some too, make that big 15 yard walk to get my deer a lot easier..

GrumpyTom

Yea that is the theory for the FOC principle. With a lighter tail of an arrow it (the tail) would follow the tip in a straighter line. When the tail of the arrow is heavier, when pushed (like it is when the crossbow launches it) it will want to surpass the front, but the fletching will help control or keep it in line. There is a sweet spot of a certain percentage of weight in front of the center point of the arrow, but I could not tell yuou what that is .

Dnk, thanks for the offer, but I will hold off on that for a bit. I think that I will first test it by adding a heavier hunting head (total 25 gr more) to see if it offsets the 30 grs I added in the tail end. I did not think that there was that much of a difference between the brass and alumin inserts. I think that adding another 78 gr to the arrow (108 grains added total) will greatly affect arrow proformance which I have come acustomed to. Remember that I am shooing a 150 lb Relayer (270-275 fps) so all this added weight will effect me more then lets say a Maxizone. Thanks Hotburn76 for the weights.

My next step is to get my dad's 125gr target head for some more testing. We will have to see.

Cossack

Alum inserts on my stock bolts weighed 45 grs. Brass 110, for a 65 gr gain at the front. Made a big difference in accuracy for me, esp after I replaced the 5" vanes with 2" Blazers. In stead of LumiNoks, I sparyed the back 5.25" of the bolt with white Laquer, then oversparyed about 1-1.5" with florescent paint to match vanes. By replacing the 5" vanes I lost some 20 gr in back net; the laquer adds < 1gr. Accuracy and bolt visability much improved at substantially less cost.

Pydpiper

Tom, there are other things that may help straighten out that arrow quicker, like the vanes. If you are using feathers they would have less drag than three chunks of plastic the rest of us call fletching.. How long are the feathers on your arrows?
The brass makes all the difference in the world, it is not something you do to an arrow and then have to wonder if it made a difference. Once you shoot them it is one of those moments you slap yourself in the forehead and think.."why didn't I do this before!" I can shoot beer cap size groups at 50 yards in the wind with brass inserts, and field points of course. Aluminum just left me feeling violated every time I pulled the trigger, a product of the environment.
Every time I compare the brass to the aluminum in my head I compare it to throwing a dart where the weight is evenly distributed opposed to the way they are traditionally made.

GrumpyTom

Sorry Pydpiper but I have to disagree with the above statement. Feathers will have more drag then veins, that is why feathers will have a greater initial FPS speed, but will drop in FPS at a faster rate then veins. Feathers are actually a great bit lighter in weight as well (aprox 3x's a light). 1 vein will weight aprox the same as 3 feathers (there will be some variances between products). This is why I had chosen feathers, to keep back end weight down, since I used 100gr heads and I have always had great accuracy with them. When I was younger, I had won a few friendly bets, setting & off hand, I would be within 2 inches of a 1 inch bullseye, accuracy was never a problem with this bow.

Your right that the brass insert would help with the accuracy, but it will cost in fps and I will have to figure out if I can afford to give up that much speed. Cossack no doubt that there will be different weights for different products. I did not expect to get perfect exact weights, just close weights. I had hoped that the difference would have been closer to only 35-40 grains more, but at 65-80 grain difference, that is a lot for a 150lb bow.

Thanks again for the help.

awshucks

Ditto that from me Tom. I'm of the belief you won't see any diff in poi going from 100 to 125 field tip, I didn't at 30 yds w/ 285 fps Phoenix. Nap has a new xbow bhead out that weighs a whopping 170 gr. If you can find a "loaner" for testing purposes, there's your additonal 70 gr you would get w/ brass inserts. I think Smokepole is shooting "logs" lol, double shats at 5-600 gr from a Vixen which should be comparable top your Relayer, maybe he will check in w/ some of his experience w/ them. I played around some along time ago, added 25 gr to alum threaded nocks [1" of 8-32 tpi rod] affected poi but not group size. Let us know how you do...... also: my alum inserts are 32 gr, nocks 22 gr, brass inserts 110 gr but think they have some at 80 gr, not sure.