Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

I just got my Exocet in the maid today. Left work early so I could set up, sight in and hopefully hunt tonight. Everything went together without a hitch, added the Lumizone scope. (I have the right stuff package) Started at 10 yards... first shot was dead center, high 4" inches. I'm smiling like a little kid... adjusted the scope down a few clicks, fired again.... I could go into details, but long story short, I'm notsatisfiedwith the groups. (6-8"at 20yards) I threw an old red dot I had laying around, and it seemed a little better. 100 grain target points, for broadheads I'm using Thunderhead 100g. Could it be the scope? Anyone ever bought a Excalibur and not been happy withthegroups? I'veshot a lot of guns in my day...used to dabble in benchrest shooting, etcso maybe I'm expecting too much. I did a lot of homework... $700 isn't gonna break me, but it's a lot of money with one income and 3 children, ya' know? I tell you, the DVD that came with it was great.. the owner that was on the DVD seems nice enough youd like to invite him to dinner... obviously as fast as his company is growing, he must be doing something right! Just looking for a little help here guys. Thanks in advance for any help! Jeff

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Happy Pappy I have a few questions and a couple of suggestions or statements.

First of all, at 20 yards your arrows should be well within 1 inch of each other, this is why it is said to only shoot one arrow at a time at a target. Doing otherwise you risk shooting one arrow inside another that is how accurate these baws normally are.

Now my question is, how are you loading or cocking the bow. ARe you using a rope cocker or are you doing it by hand. The reason I ask this is that if you cock the string improperly (a little off center) will hurt your accuracy or groups. What I advise new shooters is to mark the string (while it is uncocked), even with the sides of the rail (white out works good for this) and then when it is cocked, you can tell if it is loaded off center (your marks no longer centered with the rail). This is actually the most common cause for large grooups with the accuracy.

Other possible solutions for you could be that your arrow is not sitting back tightly against the string before shooting, your point or head is not tight to the arrow. You did not tells us if your grouping problem was with heads or field points. I know my father had grouping problems with 125 thunder heads in windy days.

Let us know if this helps or give us more info so we might be able to figure it out for you.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Tom,
Using the rope cocker. Groups with both target and field points approx. the same... 6-8". Will shooting the 100gWasp make a noticeable difference over the Thunderhead 100's I'm usingnow? Shooting one bolt at a time. It was a little windy today... maybe tomorrow will be different. I'll do some more "group therapy" and write back tomorrow!;)

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Ditch the Thunderheads. Too large, causing the bolt to plane. Cost me two bucks to find that out. Get a smaller head, preferably 4 bladed (Slick Tricks) less tendency to steer bolt. I've experienced some of the same issues. Went to Gold Ring Lazer II's with 110 gr brass insert, 2" Blazer vanes and 100 gr Slick Trick mags. AWESOME!!

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Are you using a good rest..???

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

The rope cocker is a gret tool to prevent off center cocking, just make sure your clips are against the rail and not out any from the rail (just to make sure it does not stick out and pulll off center).

When shooing target heads, you should not get any wondering with the arrow. I know that the thunderheads have a stiff spine in the head so that the tip of the head should still be on the center of the axis. With cheaper heads and a soft spine in the head, it can become off center really easy. If the tip is off the arrow's center axis, it will also cause the arrow to wonder (with practice the spin test will help determine if it wobbles or not).

A spin test is spinning the arrow, point tip down (I use the palm of my hand) and look for a wobble where the head joins the arrow, but target heads should not get this anyway, so I do not think this is your problem.

Are you shooting just one arrow or alternating different arrows. Could be bad arrows, bent alumin. ect. If you are using more then one arrow, try your shooting with just one arrow to rule out bad arrows (get a group with one arrow, then get another group with another arrow).

Maybe someone else has a suggestion that might help.

Good luck.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Are you using halfmoon nocks they do not work well with a 10 point or an excaliber.
Check the scope mounts ,rings and the screw on the fame to action for tightness.
My exocet will hit an orange every time at 35 yds so I suspect you have some sort of a problem.
When you shoot use a bench rest of some sort so we can eliminate human error as much as possable.
Make sure the roller s on your rope cocker are turning freely, that your arrows are back solid against the string,
that your arrows are straight aluminium can be bent in shipping the others are sometimes made crooked, try the iron sights to make sure its not the scope or the mount. Lee

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

To answer some of your questions... keeping rope cocker hooks tight against each side. Good solid rest. As far as arrows, I'm using the GT's that came with the right stuff package. I will reinstall the Lumizone tonight after work and give it another try (everything seems tight)
Thanks guys. 6 a.m., gotta leave for work. I'll write more tonight. Jeff

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

-First, just use field points until this is figured out that will remove any error due to broadhead variances.
-Then check the 4 screws that hold the scope mount to the rail, if you did not locTite them remove them and do that, make sure they are tight! I put those in so tight I bend my Allan key.
-scope rings should be snug just like any other scope.
-Put your hands on the scope make sure each end if secure, I recently had a scope where the whole back end was loose.
-all that done we can rule out that anything is moving around.

-Rope cocker is important, but it will only affect windage, it will not be responsible for any significant vertical issues.
-using different arrows can cause slight variations but not the ones you are describing, try to use a target with multiple shooting points. Are your groups consistent or erratic?
If they are consistent then it's adjustment time, if they are erratic then something is loose on the bow or in the scope. Loose internals on scopes are not common at all.

So, consistency, are the arrows consistently off or all over the place? If it a problem with something loose in the mountings a way to check is to take the bow to a firm surface and put pressure with the palm of your hand down on the front of the scope, pushing it to the rail. Do it for a couple arrows. It will help determine if the scope is being subjected to the massive forward recoil and moving in it's mounts. You can do the same thing by putting upward pressure on the scope in the same place.
Another trick with that scope is to take off the windage/elevation caps, locate where they are sitting now and crank them both 20 or so turns in both directions, then back to where they were, and tap the scope gently with the butt end of the screwdriver before shooting.

Once you tear it all down tonight and re assemble it I think you will find it to be fine, just make sure those mount screws (the ones holding the mount to the rail) are good and tight, and Loc-Tite is used. Once all that is done the only thing left is the scope being defective, but I would be surprised if it were.

In the right hands that bow is very capable of 2" groups at 50 yards with field points.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Where do you have your brace height set at? I always keep mine on the top lie, the one closest to you and your scope. I am not sure how much it will affect it but have always been told to keep it up high for the best POI.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

You should be wrecking arrows at 20 yards Pappy and forget about the broadheads until you get it shooting the way you want with field tips.

It sounds like something is loose or maybe a cocking issue if your not grouping them tighter than 6 inches off a bench. I would give you some advise but your already getting better than I could give you. I just pick up the Pheonix and she hits where I point her.I'm sure you will be just fine.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Good info guys... Hotburn76, I hate to tell you this, but I'm brand new to this Excalibur and don't know what my brace height is or how to even adjust it? I wish it was Aug and I was going thru all this.. not when bucks are running to and fro with their heads down on the ground looking for does!

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Brace height is the location of the string on the rail after the bow has been strung, before being cocked. On the newer model bows, I believe that there are 2 lines. It is recommended to keep the string between the two lines. To shorten or lengthen or shorten this, all you have to do is put another twist or two into or out of your string before you string the bow. Basicly it will just control speed, the closer to the scope your string sits, the less speed you will have (talking only a few feet per second here).

Pydpiper gave some good pointers as we start to get deeper into this to try and solve this. With my earlier suggestions I was hoping that it was the basic problem that alot have come across before without having to start to disassemble things. But since you seemed to have ruled out them, we can start to check out the other things.

Rule out arrows ......... pick out 1 arrow that is straight (roll arrow on edge of table, fletch just off edge)
use target head ......... tightly screwed on
Check the thightness of screws on the bow as well as the scope
IF you want to rule out the scope, mount the factory pin site and try it, your group whould still be within 2 inches (from a good rest) at 20 yards.

Hope this helps you.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Your brace height is the distance your string sits on the rail in relation to the riser. Here you will see mine is set at 1 and 1/8 of an inch, pretty standard setting.
The riser is aluminum chunk you see that the rule is resting against.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Pappy,

I agree with Planter. At 20 yards you should be destroying arrows. At 40 yards my setup is capable of putting broadheads in the same hole, from a rest.

Pydpiper posted a picture in the thread below about plastic washers that is worth a look. Where are you located??

Bob

http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20096

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

As mentioned above you should have two lines at the end of your rail.You can almost see them in Pydpiper pics. Now this could have nothing to do with it, but if your BH is set so low that the string is still in contact with the arrow from slapping so far forward that it is pushing the arrow when there is no railto guide the arrow it could be affecting it like you say. I just mentioned this because there has to be something way off base going on. Everyone that buys one of these is like a kid on Christmas when sighting in. Scope mountas Dave said, or if the brace Hight is set so low its off the chart. Another thing that makes me think BH could be affecting it is you are unsure of what it is. That means you probably have just enough twist in string to slip it on, which would make it low, and then a string when shot will stretch a bunchin the first few shots putting it even lower. I am still new at the Excal game, but am curious as to your setting. There has to be something big we are not getting, but give us time and we will!

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Well, checked my brace height... it was less than 1/2" from the aluminum riser. Tightened it up by twisting the string, shot a couple before I went out hunting... seemed a little better. Had to do some adjusting to my red dot. At 20 yards my broadheads were hitting 4" apart. Tomorrow I'll try some field points to see how they are grouping. My buddy at work swears by Slick Tricks... I laughed and told him someone on the crossbow website mentioned the same thing! I really want to get that Lumizone back on there and do some more testing. I get home from work at 4 p.m. so I only have a few minutes to test everything before I go out. As long as I can hit a 6" circle at 20 yards, I know I can make a lethal shot, but I'd like to have this thing driving tacks like I keep hearing about.

Cossack wrote... "Went to Gold Ring Lazer II's with 110 gr brass insert, 2" Blazer vanes and 100 gr Slick Trick mags. AWESOME!!"

How do I get bolts made like this? Are they mail order, or do I have to find a shop around here to make them up?

I did check the plastic washer issue... mine were hanging out there a little bit. I trimmed them flush with the riser, the seem fine now.

Love the way I can cock this thing with the rope puller... and to release it once you get home. Keep it simple... I like the ideas incorporated into this bow. I'll do some testing on Thanksgiving Day and get back to you guys. I do think we're headed in the right direction so far. Thanks guys!

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

I had same problem, 3 of 6 gt were not straight, sent them back, got much better with 125 gr field points, foc was low. still had problems as i would shoot a flier every 3 shots and not the same arrow. I took tip off arrow and put it under the string backwards so the vanes were at the front of the bow. their is a plastic shim sticking out and you could see where the vane was hitting it, i just trimmed it with a razor knife. Added weight to get foc to 13%, put in brass front inserts. can hit a quarter every shot at 20 yards. Now i shoot 100 gr slick trick magums, all I can say is "WOW"

Good luck. Stan
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RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Here is the shim.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

You're getting good advice, the best was to not try b-heads til you are hitting dimes at 20 yds.w/ field points. You can get the arrows Cossack [and many others of us use] described from Danny Miller at [740] 483-2312. If you get to your wits end, give him a call and he'll figure it out for sure. Good luck!!

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

I hear Miller Killers are great. I made my own using components after I got the idea on this forum. Just like handloading my metalic cartridges, I get a kick using roll-your-owns for X bow.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

As already said and don't mind saying it again get settled in with field tips. Once you know your bow and your set up is ok then go to b-heads. If you are crunched for time try a mechanical head, I am liking my Tekan II's so far from G5. Both deer have not went over fifty yards!

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Happy Pappy something is hitting or very loose on yer CB. Bring yer string back close to high brace line.Make sure its not getting to hit the riser. You have trimmed plastic limb spacers. Sometimes those arrows get off, like they said use one and same one so you can see whats going on. Both limbs are snug with their limb bolts? The riser is snug in place and not moving from side to side at each shot ?

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

I agree Hotburn. Field tips more likely tell you if it's the bow or the bolt that's causing problems. Once you know it shoots, switch to broadheads. That will tell you if that particular head flies in your rig. And just becasue it works for someone else shooting different bolts does not mean it will work on yours. IMO the smaller the head the more likely it will fly from an X bow.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

The bottom of the riser has two small lips on either side that go over [outside] the rail edges. It's almost impossible for the riser to move once its aligned right and the two Allen screws snugged up good. This is the main reason you can take one apart for transport and re-assemble w/ no change in poi. One other thing I don't recall being mentioned is check to see if the string is sitting square to the rail when at rest. One more thing about Danny Miller. No matter where you buy your Excal products in the USA, if there is a problem, they end up at Danny's. You Excal guys can save alot of time and grief dealing directly w/ him.

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Also did you spin test the arrows with the bheads and field tips? Ez to make one, just glue 4 marbles to a board about 11-12 inches apart, 2 at each end close together, insert tip, lay ovet the marbles and spin the arrow. watch for a wobble at the point of the tip. If you see any the arrow will not shoot very good. I even had field tips that had a bad wobble. Please keep us up to date on your progress.

Thanks, Stan

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Any updates on the groups Jeff? Also, its been frosting hard here the last week or so, hows them turnips doing? Are you going out Monday for the pumpkin parade fest? I will be taking dad out next week and my nephew, not sure if I will take a gun or just be the dog for them. Will have camera ready so maybe I can get some action that way!

RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
 

Hi, Having any luck with the groups? We would like to know what you find. My exocet had trouble when I shot wasps, switched to slick tricks.

Please keep us informed.

Thanks, Stan