Confusion on crossbows
 

Using a crossbow will be new to me.

So why the huge difference in FPS on certain models?

example: Horton with a 150 lb. draw at 250-260 FPS compared to Barnett with 150lb. draw and 345 FPS.

Educate me on this difference.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Ok, I'll jump in feet first ready for a bloddy nose! LOL
The difference is only (with one acception) marketing. You can take anything in north america with a excalibur vixen. Its the slowest cheapest bow that they make. If you go to the excal site some information will bear out the fact that it does the highest speeds of say 350 or so does not, in the real world, significantly make an arrow flatter. That is to say that you still have to compensate for normal hunting distances of less than 40 yards whether you are shooting a slow excalibur bow of 285 ftps or if you are shooting the fastest of 355 ftsec. What more power does get you is a higher terminal energy, this is the acception, the only difference the higher powered bows get you. Recently an elephant was taken with an Excalibur. You can bet that every single foot pound of energy was needed and used. To truly appreciate and utilize the highest poundage you have to use HEAVY arrows. Not sure but I think the elephant arrow was in the 700 grain range. That is a real heavy weight if you compare to most crossbow arrows that are around the 400 pus weight.
So after explaining the true reason for speed here comes the explanation as to the reason for the differences.
#1.. arrow weight, when a company markets a bow they want the highest speed to be shown, so they use impractical arrow weights to get high speeds to attract you the potential buyer.
There is no standardization like the vert bow biz that states IBO specs of a minimum of 5 grains per pound of draw weight. Yes this almost immoral but if there is no standardization, whats a company to do to survive? They need to sell to survive and they need to attract to sell. Speed sells! Might not be relevant but it does sell.
#2...efficiency. What does make things efficient is things like string tavel (this is the best way to get speed), efficiency of limb design (Excaliburs have the most efficient limb design being the only one with recurve limbs), cam design (some cams store more energy)
Thats all I am aware of and I hope this clears the mud!
Welcome to the most fun archery forum on the net. We get carried away sometimes having fun but its a good info sharing forum.
I'm sure there will be a difference in opinion as well as more information but take everything that gets said (including me, LOL) and buy what feels the best to you after you shoot it. I will not tell say what I think is the best bow for you but I will tell you that it is pretty well the consensus of general forums that the Ten Point generally the best production wheel bow available. Wheel/compound crossbows are narrow. The most uncomplicated bow is the Excalibur but it is wide.
Ok guys take your best shot at me!:D

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Above and beyond what has been said some brands come much closer to the truth than others. I have a Barnett that consistantly shows 185 on the chorny,yes I did say 185 not 285. I keep it hanging on the wall to remind me that at least in some cases you get just what you pay for it hangs right along side of my 10pt when I am not shooting the 10pt. Lee

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Lee, what do you use that sucker for frogs? LOL. What is it if I may ask?:)

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

no shots here thats good info dnk,, the only thing I would add is that not all the companies will provide you with misleading info telling you their crossbow will shot up to 345fps and you get it home and it does 275 or so,, some of the companies will give you true info on what their bows will shoot, I know Excalibur will give you true info ,, and I know TenPoint will give you true info.. can not speek for the others have not shot them,, if you want what is for the most consenses the best you coug get , the my thought would be either the TenPoint or the Excalibur. but as dnk said that my opinion others may have different thoughts, theres a lot of good info to be had here , and lots of fun too..
good luck on your choice and let us know what you get , and dont be affraid to ask questions,,

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

You are absoulutely right Henry. I forgot to mething that. Thanks for clearing my mud pond up.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

When comparing performance of crossbows, one thing to keep your eye on is the length of the power stroke. A longer power stroke will deliver more fps because it stores more kinetic energy in the arrow. That, along with the other factors listed above, can make a whole lot of difference between crossbows (or vertical bows) with the same draw weight.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

The draw weight is not the only factor to get speed. The power stroke has alot to do w/ it. This is how far the string goes back when cocked to put it simply. A little known fact is that all current production Excals use the same limbs. You can, IOW, switch the limbs on a 285 fps Vixen w/ the limbs on an E'max and both will still shoot what ever they were shooting before. Excal models get their rated speeds by differences in rail length and angled limbs. A big factor in my book is trigger pulls. Since the trigger system has to handle en extreme amount of pressure, it's expensive to make them both strong enough and still low enough for accurate shooting. Not to sound like an Excal salesperson, but all of their models have the same [real nice] triggers. There's a foolowing on here for virually every brand made, lot's of "brand loyalty" and it's best if you can get someplace to check out a prospective purchase "hands on" Welcome to the land of the permanently disorientated!! Edit: Hi DJH!! I see we were both at it at the same time, and you got there firstest w/ mostest. lol

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

So I take it from the lack of shots that no one loves me anymore? I'm soooo sad! Now where is that tree rodent, he'll take a shot at me...:D
Its the honerable Daniel Hendricks. Just about the biggest leader in the cause for crossbows! How are you Daniel? How is the cause going? I see you've been busy. How many places are you a mod? I think I've seen you in three(?) forums as a mod. Where and what are you hunting for next?

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

disorientated -- hey I resemble that statement , even more good info. personally from what I have learned I would not chose a crossbow for its speed potential , I would take accuracy over speed any day . what good would it do to send an arrow down range at 400fps if it hit a foot from where you were aiming .
so reserch the different brands ask questions about the ones you are interested in narrow down your choices then find a proshop that carries the ones your interested in and handle and shoot them,, and decide from the , the right crossbow will let you know she is the right one for you. thats my opinion again lol

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Ta Da come on Toto were not in kansas, Witch one to choose or even believe in their data! [:-]They must sell product to produce more of same. [:o]Some cost way more than udders ya knowed. [&o]Those who have posted before me have given you great info! :DWell to tell you honestly i am bias! [:o]You hold ,touch and feel, shoot them witch is too heavy? Too aukward? Too ugly? Terrible trigger pull? What can you really afford? How accurate? Can you maintain it? Does it take a trip to shop fer everything? You see we can eliminate those trashy training wheeled stump brok nonono no xbow model bashing allowed![:'(]Its Howdy Dowdy time, if ya buy anything but an Excal the best xbow buy on the market. Have i told you about Miss Phoenix and her sweet and sexy sister Miss Vixen!:D

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Mike, clean off that stir stick! Its starting to get crusty!

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

You might be right, i have been off in de woods and maybe some of that creeping crud jumped on it. You have to admit i did put in at least 7 or 8 things to look fer and check out before he puts his money down!:DI knowed y'all want me to be fair and tell folks to try all the xbows and choose what they like. It just ain't in me to let them get rooked and lose their very hard to come by money! Psssst Excal :D:D:D

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

LOL:D, can't help yourself can ya?

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Man, o, man! Now I'm even more confused.

I gotta have a drink.

Sounds like the Excal is the way to go. I'll bea beginner Xbow hunter. I want the best for the money. I don't want to invest in junk...or a lie.

Sounds like you guys have a lot of experience in this field, and that's what I was looking for. Someone that has actually hunted and and brought down a beast with one.

Thanks fellas!

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

gdaagent, there is no best bow! LOL, Go and pick them up and shoot them then talk to us. LOL......hehehe

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Dnk,serial#C61296 it has made in Great Briton on it it is not compound I could not find much info on it my wife bought it about 10 years ago new,it shoot heavy or light arrows at the same speed and she took a couple of deer with it before she died. It actually is very accurate and works well enough to kill a deer with a heavy arrow with a heavy head. Mostly other than the speed it has two draw backs if you bump the scope the mounts bend and you have to sight it in all over again and dont fail to have a winch to pullthe trigger it is a bit heaver than the 150# bow. Just kidding Lee

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Sorry to hear that about your wife Lee. I know you've heard it but that's sad man.
What serial number is that for?

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

you really should do some reserch into the different crossbows on the market, I have both an Excalibur the Exocet 200 and I also have a TenPoint Proelite, these are both great crossbows ,
TenPoint came out with a new line of crossbows this year called SixPoints theres a crossbow in that line I have been hearing great things about , the Slider , I hear it is light packs the punck of its bigger siblings and is verry accurate, and if you are new to hunting you might want to think about safty features offered on soem of the crossbows ,, like whats offered on the TenPoint Elite and Proelite , such as automatic safty,, dryfire inhibitor, forstock safty, it would be a terrible thing to send an arrow thru a window or theu the family pet or worse case senerio thru a family member because of forgeting to put on the safty, and accidentally firing the bow . and from what I have read a dryfire will reak havock on a crossbow, I had Phoenix that I bought used that I think had been dryfired, it just never did seam right and had it checked out and found out the left limd was cracked,splintered or split. so IMO its not so simple as hey everyone on this or that forum says this is a good crossbow, I would suggest doing some reserch into the different ones offered narrowing down your choices then finding a proshop that carries the ones you are interested in and handling and shooting them,,
Make an informed decision.. just my thoughts..

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Dnk – The next big hunt I am going on is at the Game Fair in Anoka, MN. This is a six-day show, which is somewhat like a Renaissance Fair, but the subject of the event is all forms of hunting will take place during two consecutive, 3-day weekends in August. And what will I and my friends be hunting for there you ask (maybe your not asking, but I am going to tell you anyhow)? I and the other members of the Minnesota Association of Crossbow Hunters (MACH) are going to be looking for new members to help us get the crossbow legalized as just another option for the Minnesota bowhunter.

There are hundreds of folks in Minnesota who would love to use the crossbow during the archery season and MACH’s objective is to bring them into one group, which will effectively lobby for the inclusion of the crossbow in the archery season. Are we going to be successful? Of course! How long will it take? Who knows! But it is never going to get done unless all those who believe the crossbow should be a matter of choice organize and come together.

We already have the ears of several legislators and the MN DNR is on the bandwagon so it is up to the grassroots hunters of this state to make it happen. I must admit that I am surprised and somewhat taken aback by the number of folks that think the crossbow is a good idea, but are not willing to become actively involved with the movement. Apathy is at a premium, but our crew, which will be made up from our current paid members is bound and determined to do what it takes to make it happen in Minnesota. The key is to bring all of the hunters who support the crossbow together into one solid group and then go after the legislators in our own districts. A politician is a politician and the only thing the catches their attention is a large number of voters.

So, that is my next big hunt! I have no idea what kind of trophies we are going to bag, but I have my sights set on at least 100 newly paid members. The fall issue of the Horizontal Bowhunter Magazine will be our fifth anniversary issue and a report about this hunt for new MACH members will be found on the pages of that issue. Watch for it and find out how many were bagged and what the next move will be to bring the crossbow into the Gopher State, making it just one more choice for the Minnesota bowhunter. I am expecting a good hunt with lots of wall-hangers. Wish us luck in our hunt.

If I can be of assistance to help any of our ACF family members in other states get a similar action going, please feel free to give me a call (320-634-3660) and chat. Nothing on this scale happens without invested effort. If we are serious about gaining ground and overcoming the oppression that has held us back for so long, it will require some effort and some leadership. MACH is willing to share all that we are doing and all that we have done in an effort to promote our cause. If MACH can help, please let us know. We are dedicated, heart and soul, to making the crossbow just as common as the compound bow during the archery season.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Dan, good luck on your hunt. I hope your body count exceeds 100. Have fun and Illigitimus non carborundum! Sorry Awshucks just borrowing! LOL!

RE: Confusion on crossbows - Excalibur Is Great!
 

Gentlemen

Just joined today. Thought I'd throw my two cents worth in.

Hunted with a rifle for almost 40 years (I'm a northern Ontario boy) and took up bow hunting three years ago for a better challenge. Because of a right shoulder/arm disability I chose a crossbow.

I initially ordered an Excal Exocet but the store screwed up and they brought in an Excal Vixen instead. With the hunt only days away I fussed a bit but since I was a regular they discounted it heavily and I went with it.

The first shot I took at an animal a week later was a bull moose at a range of 27 metres. He dropped within 150 metres. And that was with Excal's "low end" model rated at 275 fps.

Excal's products and support are excellent. They went with the KISS principle and use a recurve design for all models except one.

Bottom line; take the 'bow off the rack, string it and go hunting; no tuning, no resighting (although I do check the sights with a couple of shots) plus I regularly tighten all the fastenings.

Excalibur all the way!

I use the bow for turkey, whitetail, moose, black bear (unless it's a nuisance bear) and ruffed grouse. Planning a caribou hunt in Quebec in the next year or two.

Our bow hunt club (myself and two others) got a bull moose tag and we'll be off on September 14th to Manitouwadge. We're fully digital now and should have good pics to post.

After that, bow season for deer opens October 1st and ends December 31st.

It's going to be a sweet fall!

Canuck

Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
Ducks Unlimited Canada

RE: Confusion on crossbows - Excalibur Is Great!
 

Welcome fellow Canadian. You are in good company here. I hope you have fun here.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Just for another viewpoint and testamonial, I shoot a Horton Legend, in 4 years I have killed every deer I shot at with it. That is 5 dead with 5 shots.

My Horton will consistently shoot less than 2" groups at 30 yards, so those Excal guys can yak all they want about how great their bows are, they arent the only good bow on the market.

The point is if you get any quality Crossbow, set it up correctly, and practice with consistency you will be able to harvest deer cleanly.

By a quality Bow I would include Horton, Excal, and Ten-Point for sure, some folks like Barnett also, but I have no experience with them. Noone in my area that I know of hunts or shoots one so I can not give much info on them either way.

Even though they make fun of the training wheels of the Hortons and Ten Points at least those of us who dont shoot Excals can get into the barn without turning crosswise.

My advice is to go to a shop where they will let you shoot each one and see which one feels good to you.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Omegalover, any of the poking is all in fun, no harm is ever meant and would not be tolerated.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Psssst...(Whispered) Excals can really get into the barn without turning crosswise, but dont tell anyone.

No offense implied, sorry if it seemed that way.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Not true, i live in a barn and i always have get one of the big doors open fer my Phoenix. Of course the deer i get all have to be brought in with a tractor and use come along to hang them up on beam![:o][:-]:D:D:D

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

No offence taken, I was worried that you took offence at my friends poking. They mean no offence, some of us just can't help ourselves. Kinda like grade two you know! LOL!!!:D
Yeah the width of those limbs makes me crazy sometimes, not to mention the noise the limbs make when the brush passes over them:eek:. But they are accurate. Did you see the pic of my offhand shooting that I posted earlier? And some day I will get a wheel bow (10 point) and keep it in my truck as back up and for still hunting.

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Mymain point is with any descent quality crossbow the most important factor is the Hunter. The Hunter is the one that has to learn to perform consistently.With the exception of equip malfunction the bow you use will repeat itself endlessly.

Too many hunters overlook these steps or take them for granted.

As with many other things you are as good as you practice, and without it you may get lucky but I wouldnt count on it. It takes time and consistency in your shooting to makegood groups off hand at 30 yards. Which personally is what I recommend for anyone getting ready for Bow Season, weather you shoot a Vert or Horiz bow, doesn't matter.

Once you can shoot that consistently, then shoot other ranges and from your stand or a stand similar to the one you intend to hunt from (it does make a difference).

Mark trees in your hunting area with different color markings to know your range or keep a rangefinder handy, then anything that comes in you can have confidence in harvesting cleanly. That is the whole point of what we are all working towards.

Then one of these days I will figure out how to ride my Horton back to the barn using them training wheels and show all you Excal guys a new wrinkle. Ha!

RE: Confusion on crossbows
 

Omegalover: Those are all some good points. Nothing beats familiarity w/ your equipment. I started off w/ a "Whammo" 80 lb pull. Remember those cheap wonders? Next, a Barnett Commando, a PSE, Barnett Quad 400, Excal E'max, Phoenix, and last an older model Excal wheel bow called a Paradox. I live in the sticks in Arkansas, no pro shops for 80 miles, so the simplicity of the Excals has more appeal to me than folks closer to town. We joke and kid around here alot, but everyones bows will do the job. I had been shooting 40 or so shots a day until this heat wave hit. We had a guy post a challenge here awhile back, he shot 1000 shots w/ same arrow!! If they were all at 30 yds, thats like 34 miles of walking to and from target!! Bet he gets his tags filled no problems.