RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

Wayne B., I just went back and reread ArthurP`s original post. Nowhere in his post does he even hint about anyone using one pin! What he does talk about is people who think speed alone can buy them a big margin of error savings. It cannot! That is what I got out of his post.
Next, you have treestands 30' in the air. So do I, several of mine are in the 30-35' range, and 30 yds. does`nt look like a mile to me.
In all my posts on this thread, I certainly never put down anybody who uses one pin. I USE ONE PIN! What I did say(or try to)is that there are many rookies, wannabes, whatever you wish to call them that think that a high speed rig shoots flat as a rifle. It just ain`t so. I will post the results of my little test on monday night, or tuesday night.
I can tell you now, before I get the test results that no matter how fast you are shooting, when you get to the 35yd. and out range, even with a bow going 290fps in hunting trim, you better be within 2 or 3 yds. of your yardage guess. If not, you are going to have a problem, and that is if you held in the exact spot you wanted to hit, and made a flawless release. Let that arrow go when you are not on the right spot, now we have BIG problems.
I wish you would go back and reread what ArthurP posted, with an open mind, and I think you will see that he was`nt trying to bash anyone who shoots a fast bow, or one pin. Just the guys that think a fast bow is a replacement for practice, practice, practice!
I`ll get the results up as quick as I can.

And BTW, I would have to actually go count them, but off the top of my head I have at least ten bows that are 1999 models or newer. Only three are 2002 models...guess I`m slowing down a little bit!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And BTW, I would have to actually go count them, but off the top of my head I have at least ten bows that are 1999 models or newer. Only three are 2002 models...guess I`m slowing down a little bit!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Big Country, I agree with your last post. BTW, what do you do with that many bows? :)

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

What do I do with that many bows? That is a question my wife asks me occasionally!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I just like to shoot the new stuff that comes out, and since I am left handed it is harder for me to sell bows. Some of the older ones I like too much to part with. You never know when you might need them! HeHe.

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>silentassassin....I AM YOUR IDOL, ADMIT IT, I HAVE MORE BOOK BUCKS ON MY WALL THAN YOU COULD EVER HOPE TO. ALL THE WHILE CHANTING...&quot;WOLFEN68 IS THE BEST, WOLFEN68 IS THE BEST...!!!&quot; BAWAHAHAHAH
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Ahh shucks you're right wolfen, you are my hero<img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>quote:
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The thing about this soap box that really bothers me is the kids reading this stuff and getting scared to ever try to bowhunt. They think they better have a rangefinder, mechanical heads, pendulum sights and a ..... or they should never walk into the woods.
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Add to that list that they might think they'd better have a bow shooting 300 fps or stay home.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Or even worse if they have some moron who thinks he knows it all telling them that they are unethical if they shoot a fast bow.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Other than a couple threads here and there , where are you getting all of this &quot;speed speed speed , light arrow , one pin , etc. etc. propaganda at? I dont see hunting mags pushing speed speed speed! I dont see the archery industry pushing speed! I see the archery industry offering bows that will suit the speed seekers along with the log shooters. I see the arrow mfg's offering arrows to suit each! Just about every month I see an article describing how too much speed can create poor broadhead flight or how some hunting mag writer prefers around 250 fps for deerhunting. I dont see posts by members here telling someone new that they need to shoot 300 fps. In fact I haven't seen posts here telling anyone they need to shoot light fast arrows for anything. Someone will usually post a question and others will answer and give advice or tell them what works for them. If you do a search on &quot;carbon -vs- alluminum or light -vs- heavy or fast -vs- slow&quot; posts , the common denominator in all of them will be Arthur P!
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Arthur is confusing us with the speed craze of the late 80's and early 90's. No one is preaching speed speed speed any more but Arthurp.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>My problem with Arthur is his arrogance to pass judgment on someone for such a stupid topic and the fact that someone who is starting out might read his post and believe that bull. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Pretty pathetic isn't it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Wayne B., I just went back and reread ArthurP`s original post. Nowhere in his post does he even hint about anyone using one pin! What he does talk about is people who think speed alone can buy them a big margin of error savings <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

No what he did was lump everyone that shoots light fast arrows into the same category by calling them all unethical.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I wish you would go back and reread what ArthurP posted, with an open mind <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Why? Arthur damn sure didn't start it with an open mind.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;<font color=red></font id=red>

Edited by - PABowhntr on 09/16/2002 10:52:24

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

A couple of observations
1) Big Country if a slow bow is 230-250fps then what is 208 fps considered besides quite? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

2) Wayne B, In your neck of the woods your shooting distance appears to be quite close, however this past June I was hunting over a waterhole in South Africa during in drought conditions and the water was 22 yards from where I was set up with shots ranging to over 45 yards. I didn't take any as the animals were VERY jumpy coming in but I had 5 Nyala bulls, quite a few Impala rams, several Duikers and Zebras. If I ahd a shot it would have been no closer than 25 yards at the waterhole. Not a chip shot. In Montana I had Elk and Mule Deer at distances close to 45 yards and I took my first Antelope at 55 yards.

Do I recommend long distance shots? No! I won't even consider a shot of these distances here in Ohio, but conditions and terrain are different and that is what drives the shooting distance for me.
I practice out to 45 yards but limit myself to what I consider a high percentage shot, which is usually under 25 yards here.

Arthur, Light vs Heavy out of my bow make a difference, I haven't measured the difference but it is noticeable in the flight of the arrow. I was working up a arrow/broadhead combination for a small antelope at long distance for my hunt in South Africa but decided to stay with my current set-up as the difference was too much to really adjust to in terms of visualizing the flight of the arrow. I hunt with pins but shoot more instinctive, and since my recurve shoots the same set-up(back-up bow) I don't have as much of a problem here as others do.

My 2 cents




Greg

&quot;Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus.&quot;

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

BOWFANATIC &quot; If thats the case , then you and I , and probably everyone here , know people who harvest deer every year that dont deserve to hunt.&quot;

Yes and I see people who aren't fit to drive cars and yet they do. The difference ? Bowhunting is under attack, and irresponsibility adds fuel to the fire. Shooting an untuned bow is irresponsible.

Truth is, if I could get a 50# longbow that'd shoot an arrow well at 250 fps, I'd buy one. Why ? More speed = more KE and momentum. You won't see a longbow doing that though.

In a few years when Matthews and Bowtech unviel a 1 1/2 pound bow that has 95% hodling weight, a fancy little high tech device that makes drawing the bow very easy too and one that spits a 450 gr arrows 400 fps, what will ya'll think about that ? One pin out to 50 yards - too much technology ?



Stealthycat's Photo's

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

I thought most of those one pin sights have an adjustment knob for yardage? Quote this, Slow arrows suck. I have seen whitetail jump out of the way on more than one occasion. If you stalk hunt in open country good luck with your slow arrow!

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Quote this, Slow arrows suck. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Tell us how you really feel. <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Boy, I guess all the traditional hunters including myself really don't have a clue.

But, I guess, I'll just stick with my &quot;sucky arrows&quot; anyway. They have always performed well for me.

BTW, I had one (deer) move when I shot carbons. It turned a vital shot into a gut shot. I had to recover the deer the next day. So any arrow speed choice does not relieve you 100%. I will say that the heavy arrows are quiter in flight, and coming off the bow, so on an unalerted deer, you may actually have an advantage in quietness.

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

Once again a topic has been changed from the original to a heavy v light arrow.

I totally agree with Arthur about those who cant judge distance for squat so they go out and buy a speed bow to make up for their misjudged yardages.

I have been hunting for 40 years and am pretty good at judging the yardage from the ground because until I moved here I had never heard of a tree stand let alone seen one.
But put me 20 feet up a tree now that is another story I cant judge the distance thats why I got a range finder cause I owe it to the animal I am hunting.

Plus I have just a single pin sight but it is moveable and it dont take long to adjust it.

For those of you that they say have a single pin set at 20 or 25 yrds and can hit dead on at 0 to 30 I say BULL
There was a thread not so long ago about a target at 3 yrds you guys go out at put your pin dead on and see what happens.

When I got my current bow I got it because of the way it felt in my hands the speed side of it was a bonus I dont look at IBO or AMO ratings when I buy a bow I go on the feel of it.

So in suming up Arthur has an allie in some one that has a speed bow.

RE: Arrow Speed, Misjudged Yardage & Ethics
 

Ausie, forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't a light arrow travel faster then a heavy arrow out of the same bow? Doesn't arrow weight have something to do with speed? And doesn't the two have some relevance in arrow trajectory, which certainlly ties into yardage judgements. I would say that the weight of an arrow has some relevance here (definitely, not the only factor). I certainly wouldn't discredit it.