RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Crossbows are NO MORE EVIL than compounds. Want prrof ? Look at the states that allow them and please, PLEASE tell mw HOW they're been evil when not one person has shown me a shread of proof. None. Nada. Or certainly not any more than a modern compound has. Can't you see that ?

So yes - I suppose if I had God power for a day I WOULD put archery season back to what it was - longbows/recurve and such. Compounds and crossbows in their own season. But I cannot justify the modern compound bow and pretend that its not basically the same thing as a crossbow and arguable a BETTER killing weapon than a compound !

MA Jay - again, your point is moot because its NOT illegal to hunt with crossbows in your states, is it ? Crossbows are legal, therefore even if they are NOT legal in archery season they still are fully accesible by poachers anyway, aren't they ? How difficult is it for a poacher to use ANY weapon they choose ?

More deer are going to be poached today by guns than all year combined with crossbows.

You truly think there are no slobs shooting compounds ? You really think guys don't pick them up a few days before season, dust them off and go hunting ? Does that make compounds the enemy too ?

HuntingBry - i have a very solid argument on crossbows. I do not cower down when i see an argument that is hugely flawed and I'm telling you , shooting a tricked out compound capable of 75 yard groups, 85% letoff draw, horizonal limb technology, triggered releases and all - it aint that much different at all from a crossbow. Fact is, Arkansas and several other state have had crossbows a LONG time and never a single bad thing come from it.

Isn't that astounding ? You'd think if they were so terrible there'd be at least ONE thing bad to say about them, wouldn't you ?

Unless the anti-crossbow zealots of the world are fearful of something that doesn't exist. Top that off with the glaring contradictions of hating crossbows because they are easy, they are different, they have high letoffs, they are technology, they bring in gun hunters blah blah blah .......... dang it guys thats EXACLTY what compounds do !

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Then then same thing applies to crossbows because they would still have to shine a light. Furthermore, all they would have to do is srew in a different stabilizer for walking in and out of the woods. Either way the person is going to have to have the intention to poach and if that is the case it won't make a hill of beans what the weapon is, they are going to poach. It's a simple as that. I presume you also want to outlaw guns because they make it easier for one human to kill another??????????????????????????? Guns don't kill people, people kill people and crossbows don't poach deer, people poach deer. Your argument holds no merit?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Let's be very clear on this, datamax. It is patently absurd to say I hate crossbows. As HuntingBry said, they definitely are intriguing weapons. I own one and have hunted with it - in the Texas general weapons season. I far prefer hunting with my bows but I do like a change of pace once in awhile. If some baboon hadn't broken into my home and stole all my muzzleloaders, I'd still be hunting with them on occasion too.

My point of view is the crossbow has no business being granted unrestricted use in archery hunting season. I would like to get a better xbow than the one I've got, but I refuse to spend my money to support an industry which is threatening to take over a season where their products were never intended to be used. Nor will I buy a scoped, in-line muzzleloader because it is not in keeping with the reasoning used to establish the special season. By the exact same token, I will never buy another compound because I dislike the direction that part of the archery industry is heading. I do not 'hate' the compound but I do believe the technology has outdistanced the reasons we were granted special status to begin with.

I do not like the fact that bowhunter success rates have risen so high with modern compounds - from less than 10% pre-compound up to 56% according to some figures - that we are now considered a major factor in overall game management schemes. The original intent of having a bow season was to maximize recreational hunter man hours in the woods with minimal herd impact. Those who argue that crossbows should be allowed because they're needed to help keep herd numbers in check are off their nut. That is where the state should be obligated to increase the number of tags allotted to gun hunters.

In specific suburban areas where there are way too many deer and guns are too dangerous to be allowed, then I do think allowing crossbows along with conventional archery gear would be an effective way to increase the harvest and keep deer numbers in check. Anyone have a problem with establishing special crossbow zones in problem areas like that?

Outside those specific areas though, they need to be kept out of bow season. People who really want to hunt with their crossbows should be allowed to use them like I do, in the gun/general weapons season. Heck, here in this state, they have 11 months in which to legally hunt something with their crossbows, with that other month being our measely little bow season.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Datamax it is hard to "discuss" with you. You don't listen.

Yes, you brought up a valid point, that here in the Northeast we have several states that allow crossbow use. The percentage of the hunting population that uses them is very small though. Nobody wants to put down a gun to pick up a crossbow. While you are 100% correct that a person "planning" to poach could use what ever weapon they want, what you don't seem to grasp .. and what my sole point has been, is that CROSSBOWS MAKE IT EASY FOR ANYONE TO KILL A DEER AFTER LEGAL SHOOTING TIME WITH OUT ANY PRE PLANNING ON THEIR PART. Grant me that will you... I told you I have tried it myself, that being shooting a 3-d target with a crossbow at night by the light of a flashlight and it wasn't hard. Try it yourself. Then grab a compound bow, without adding any special lasers or any other poaching tool and try and make that same shot .. you CAN'T.

Guys, I am not saying a crossbow is bad or evil or that they take over people's minds and make them poach. They just make it to easy for the average guy to poach .. that guy being Joe Hunter sitting in a treestand and has a buck come in just 10 minutes to late to shoot with a compound .. but with a crossbow that deer is still smokeable. Will that guy shoot knowing it is illegal??? It wouldn't be the crossbows fault if he did .. but the fact he can, without any fear of being caught .. is the one negative thing you asked for someone to provide.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

One last point .. I tried finding instances of bows being used to Poach .. and they were not hard to find. The disturbing thing is that it was about the same amount of cases a crossbow was used. Considering how many more bows are out there when compared to crossbows .. and you can draw your own conclusion.

For my info I used Google again and used Archery and Poaching, as well as Bows and Poaching. I used Crossbow and Poaching as well. Not pure science to be sure .. but gave me some raw info, enough to draw an opinion from.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Someone stole mine out of my garage a few years back. I hate thieves.

But back to the topic at hand .......

Were compounds suppose to have a compound season ? Oh thats right, they invaded archery season, didn't they ? Again, same argument can be said with a compound.

See, I believe that too Arthur - we have very similar core beliefs I think. Where we differ is like I said before. You see the lion loose but want to keep the tiger caged for no more reason other than it has different stripes. Me ? I don't see why there is any difference at all - a lion and a tiger is very close to the same animal - cage them both or free them both - but be consistant !

Well no, i do not grant you that, no more than a person can shoot after hours with a compound and honestly / Give me moonlight and with my recurve I can shoot anything that I can see after dark. I shoot pure traditional/instinctive and on a good moonlit night I can shoot all night within reason. Add a flashlight to the equation and ANY weapon become a poachers too.

Compounds are close to worthless in low light because most people use little tiny peeps. My compounds always had the peeps drilled out really big - and still they were difficult in low light conditions. With the sights and no=peeps coming out .... in the next few years I think you'll see gadgets that will conquer the low light shooting problems compounders face.

And I'm not listening ? Crossbows have been legal in AR for decades and I cannot think of a single instance where they've been used as poachers weapons. If your premise is true, wouldn't there have been some cases ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Oh, I searched google too ................ of all the stuff related to poaching I saw people used rifles.


Damn those rifle, we should make them illegal you know, they encourage people to poach

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

dm, I don't for the life of me understand why you want to unleash the tiger too, instead of trying to help restrain the lion.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Arthur - Is there any kind of movement whatsoever to restrain the lion ? Any ? Any at all ? And its not just about restraining him .......... the damage he's doing he'll keep doing (assuming he's doing damage)

only by re-caging the lion can you stop the damages being done

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Datamax, I'm not trying to convince you I am right, as you have shown yourself not open to hearing the "other" side, but I believe people taking the time to read this thread will see my point for what it is.

Your lack of admission that a traditional bow and a compound bow are "different" than a crossbow seems odd to me. They aren't the same, no matter how many people or times you say that they are. The fundamental differences in them is rather obvious. Notice I didn't mention technology or effectiveness, just said different. A compound bow and a long bow are much closer together than a compound and a crossbow .. if for no other reason than they are both "bows" and are shoot using "archery" skills. Crossbow hunters do not utilize archery skills or shoot bows, and that makes them different.

If you honestly believe an archer can shoot with accuracy after legal shooting light, I have to question the validity of your statements concerning your archery prowess. Not saying it can't be done under perfect conditions .. but it's not regularly or under normal conditions. While that crossbow you love, coupled with that flashlight in your pocket can shoot accurately with a full moon or no moon EVERY night. I'll bet 1000 dollars you can't hold a flashlight in either of your hands and shoot any bow, traditional or compound and hit the bulls eye at 20 yards. But any Joe Blow can do it with a crossbow......

You must use Google the same way you debate a point .. only see what you want to see.

Arizona Crossbow Poacher
Iowa Crossbow Poacher
Colorado Crossbow Poacher
Penn Crossbow Poacher
Another Crossbow Poaching story
West Virginia Crossbow Poachers