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Old 03-13-2005, 06:35 AM
  #81  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

realmfg,
I thought the point of a forum was to discuss topics of interest. The fact that there are opposing views is what makes the discussion interesting. Although I may get testy at times I for one respect everybody here and enjoy the debate. If you think a thread is "stupid" just go on to another one.
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Old 03-13-2005, 06:40 AM
  #82  
Spike
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

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Here's my $.02 on this...I was raised on you go hunting,you kill something and you bring it home and eat it. It's all fun. Rabbit,squirrel,grouse,duck,DEER,etc. etc. Young,old,male,female,it doesn't matter...they're all the same. Does anyone practise small game "trophy" or "mature" hunting only? DEER are not special,they're just a bigger package of good eating.
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Old 03-13-2005, 07:30 AM
  #83  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

Here's my $.02 on this...I was raised on you go hunting,you kill something and you bring it home and eat it. It's all fun. Rabbit,squirrel,grouse,duck,DEER,etc. etc. Young,old,male,female,it doesn't matter...they're all the same. Does anyone practise small game "trophy" or "mature" hunting only? DEER are not special,they're just a bigger package of good eating.
I buy that! What a great perspective.
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Old 03-13-2005, 07:36 AM
  #84  
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

By using the healthier herd argument, then QDM should also involve letting the immature does go right? I like practicing QDM, but its not without its pitfalls. When other hunters start noticing big bucks in the area that you hunt by way of road crossings, huge rubs along entryways onto the property, etc...........they have a way of either talking the landowner into letting them(by them I mean more than one) aboard or leasing the land out from under you, OR outfitters taking over.

QDM should not be mistaken for QAM(Quality Antler Management).......in which QDM has become!
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Old 03-13-2005, 08:47 AM
  #85  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

The problem with the healthier herd argument is that its not about healthier deer at all. QDM advocates define a healthy herd as one that has lots of big racked bucks in the population. They argue that we need to increase the average age of the herd. But what does the average age in any population have to do with being healthy. The average age of the U.S. population is older than the average age of the Chinese. Does that mean we are healthier. That's nonsene. Here is what a healthy herd means...

If the individuals within the population display a normal or low incidence of maladies i.e. disease, genetic disorders, nutritional deficiency and also display other physical characteristics within the normal range for their age e.g. weight; the population can be considered to be healthy.

No, if we are honest, QDM,AR,PBS whatever is about big racks not health. The health argument is just a justification. It is really disingenuous to define a healthy herd in terms that have nothing to do with health but simply in terms that are clearly determined by what is desired for good hunting.
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Old 03-13-2005, 01:05 PM
  #86  
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

ORIGINAL: NY Hunter

undefined
Here's my $.02 on this...I was raised on you go hunting,you kill something and you bring it home and eat it. It's all fun. Rabbit,squirrel,grouse,duck,DEER,etc. etc. Young,old,male,female,it doesn't matter...they're all the same. Does anyone practise small game "trophy" or "mature" hunting only? DEER are not special,they're just a bigger package of good eating.
Exactly.

If the antlers weren't part of the package then no one would even care........but they are so we hear all kinds of justifications for it like herd health, challenge and maturity blah blah blah.
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Old 03-13-2005, 02:00 PM
  #87  
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

atlasman actually said:
ORIGINAL: atlasman
the entire philosophy of QDM is to fill the woods with bucks like these right??
LMAO, and then when asked if he is serious with some of these ludicrous statements he says he is! Yes atlas, the purpose of QDM is to FILL the woods with big mature bucks, be one behind every tree.....

An intelligent debate can be fun but we all know there is no right or wrong, it comes down to your perosnal decision as long as it is legal.

Sylvan, I have asked this many times and not one person has ever given me an answer. Since you made a statement about selective hunting being "unhealthy for hunting" I will ask you as well. When my son starting sitting in the stand with me 3 seasons ago I have passed up several small bucks. In those 3 years my 11 year old son has seen bucks sparring, he has seen them make rubs, he has seen 2 or 3 bucks make scrapes, he has seen does bed down to later be kicked up and "scent checked" by a young buck, he has seen turkeys, coyotes (and still tells me I should have shot at the one that passed at 20 yards), and he has enjoyed squirrels, woodpeckers, etc... Not to mention this year in his first year of hunting he shot a 3 1/2 year old buck. Now most or all of these experiences would not have happened if I would have flung an arrow at the first deer to walk by! Now on to my question - What is wrong with sitting and enjoying nature while waiting for a mature buck??????? Why is this so bad for hunting? If the guy next door wants to teach his kid to shoot the first thing to walk by for meat that is fine with me but I want to know what is wrong with my method and why it's so bad for the sport?

I am sorry but I am raising my boys to appreciate the entire hunting experience and the actual act of killing an animal is only a small part of it.
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Old 03-13-2005, 02:45 PM
  #88  
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

ORIGINAL: Blodg

atlasman actually said:
ORIGINAL: atlasman
the entire philosophy of QDM is to fill the woods with bucks like these right??
LMAO, and then when asked if he is serious with some of these ludicrous statements he says he is! Yes atlas, the purpose of QDM is to FILL the woods with big mature bucks, be one behind every tree....
Well that would be the end result if everyone stopped shooting small bucks right?? It's only common sense. The woods are full of small spikes and 1 1/2 yr olds aren't they?? If they were all allowed to live 3 more years the woods would be full of 4 1/2 yr olds right?? It is simple math.
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Old 03-13-2005, 07:15 PM
  #89  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

Sylvan, I have asked this many times and not one person has ever given me an answer. Since you made a statement about selective hunting being "unhealthy for hunting" I will ask you as well.
Blodg, Please re-read my posts. I have never said that selective hunting is unhealthy for hunting. If fact I have said that if that is what is important to you then selective hunting will indeed increase your chances of killing a bigger mature deer and if that is what makes you happy then go for it. I also said, however, that placing too much emphasis on killing a big rack teaches our young hunters that that's all that matters and that is indeed not healthy for the sport. There are a lot of other important values to be learned from the hunting experience and focusing on just one aspect can potentially rob these same young hunters of a lot of satisfying experiences.

What is wrong with sitting and enjoying nature while waiting for a mature buck??????? Why is this so bad for hunting? If the guy next door wants to teach his kid to shoot the first thing to walk by for meat that is fine with me but I want to know what is wrong with my method and why it's so bad for the sport?
Not a thing wrong with it. Again, if you go back and read what I've said you will see that my problem is that there are a lot of hunters that seem to think that killing the mature buck is all that is important and if you don't agree and you won't adopt their methods you are simply wrong. Looks to me like you are teaching your sons that there is indeed a lot more and I applaud you for it. I also applaud you for being tolerant of what is important to other hunters. Looks to me like you are keeping your values in proper perspective. Of course most every hunter wants to kill a big rack, I know I do, but I think its also important to keep the value of a big rack in perspective with all the other important hunting values and traditions.

I really liked what NY hunter said...
I was raised on you go hunting,you kill something and you bring it home and eat it. It's all fun.
Simple. To me it says to keep the fun in hunting. All this stuff about QDM and AR and all that can make it feel more like high tech farming or trying to manage the production of a product. Not anything like what Fred Bear calls "a classical exercise in freedom" or "a return to fundamentals that I instinctively feel are basic and right."

BTW, I envy your opportunity to raise 3 boys in the hunting tradition. I was not fortuante enough in life to be blessed with such a gift. You should cherish every moment!
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:32 AM
  #90  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Passin the Buck

Blodg and nogog, sorry for switching your names around. I've corrected the mistake...
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