pro shops and return customers
 

I was wanting some opinions on a situation I have found myself in, everyone please answer especially pro shop owners. Heres the situation. I have been going to one pro shop exclusively for about 5 years, I have purchased 6 new bows from this shop in that time. I am wanting the new switchback (which this pro shop sells), when I asked the price, the shop owner said $719.00. I expected a little better price since I have been a great customer, I recently found a price of $599.00 on the same bow about an hour away(I have never bought a thing from this shop). What would you do, save 120.00 or buy it for 719.00. Saving 120.00 is just as important to me as it is for him making it. I know at 599.00 the other shop is making money. What is everyones thoughts, if I buy it somewhere else I won't expect him to work on it fro free.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

I would tell your pro that you can buy the same bow cheaper at another pro shop. Tell him the price & ask him to match it? If he does not match it? Save yourself some money & take your business somewhere else.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

The last line says it all. I guess it depends how much the $120.00 means to you. I from the school of thought that if I spend a lot of money at a store I expect to be taken care of. I can understand the guy making a buck but at $720.00 I think he's pushing the limits of loosing customers.

I know if it were me I would be down the road in a second.

Did you see if that was the "best" price they can offer. I wouldn't throw the other guy's price in their face but I'd make sure they know you're a good customer and there price is high.

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I agree wolf but just the fact that he would have let me pay that price makes me angry, I am not sure I should give him another oppertunity. Adams I agree but I feel they should have given me their best price up front.

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If you have going to this shop for 5 years they must be doing something right.there is no gaurantee that if you bought the bow at the other shop you would get the same service you have been.Personally i would buy the bow from your old shop because you what your getting in return for your money.you said your old shop is a pro shop,i think you get what you pay for "PROFESSIONAL SERVICE".W ho knows what you'll get over there.;)

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After reading your post again, I agree with you 100%. I would take my money to the cheaper pro shop. I would not even mention it to your old pro.
If the cheaper pro shop gives you bad service? You can always go back to your old pro.

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And then have to pay him to fix what the other guy screwed up.Are you still saving 120.00 now? Ithink not

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Wolf killer i am not sure if he said the other shop was a pro shop or not.

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Yes the other shop is a pro shop but I do alot of work myself.

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Good Luck:D

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

How many Mathews bows does this guy sell a year and how does he pay for the bows that he sells. That can make a huge differance in the dealers price. There can be as much as $150+- differance in the Mathews to dealer price depending on his "ranking" with Mathews.

Your guy may be a group 1 dealer and has to use terms in order to pay for the bows and that really drives up the dealers cost. The cheaper shop may be a group 3 dealer and pays cash for his bows. He would get the absolute best price from Mathews.

He may not be making all that much money on a $729 switchback.

Ask him if he can do better if he can then great if he can't then maybe he really can't.

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When I spend a lot of money at a shop I expect to be taken care of. I know the shop owner has to make a living and that's why I give them my business instead of buying mail order etc. in most incidents. But if they ever tried to gouge me then I would go else where. If $719 was the price he was charging everyone then I would ask for a discount since I spent so much money there. If that didn't work I would tell them I could buy one for $599 down the road. If they wouldn't try to get close to it then I would take my business down the road and keep it there. That's the situation I am in right now. The shop that I was loyal to is owned my a husband and wife. The wife smarted off to me twice and that was once to many times. I refuse to go in there for any reason. I have even driven a 100 miles each way for a pack of replacement blades that I needed right away to avoid spending $10 in there. I now drive another 20 miles and get great service and I give them all of my business. I willingly pay more there than I could for some things because of the service but at the same time I expect to be taken care of on big ticket items since I have spent an average of a couple of grand a year in there in the last couple of years and that wouldn't even touch the money that the people that I have sent their way have spent. So it would be pretty stupid to lose my business over $100 dollars. Fortunately, the pro-shop that I frequent realizes that and treats me quite well.

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Being a good customer I can say I agree 100%. I would also expect that courtisey from them.
Did the guy recognize you or was it an employee you've only dealt with a couple of times?

If it was the shop owner you deal with a lot I think he's trying to make an extra buck or two from you but it apprears this time it will bite him. As a good customer I expect to be treated well as I'm sure you do as well.

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Another thing to think about is if a shop owner gave everyone a price break for being a "good customer" he would be out of business. He is there to make money bottom line. I'm sure he loves doing it also but if her weren't making money he wouldn't be there.

How much money do you have to spend there each year before you think you are one of these "good customers" that should get discounts. What makes you special? Everyone spends money there. Some more some less. Some have to save and save in order to get one bow every five years. What makes you better than the guy that has to save.

There is a lot of overhead in an archery shop. Especially one run by a "mom and pop". Insurance is astronomical, they aren't making much on bows in the first place, and then think about all of the accessories that they must keep in stock.

Do you guys go into the grocery store and wheel and deal over the cost of meat?

Do you expect the same courtisey from Walmart?

The price of his stuff doesn't have anything to do with how well you are treated. He has to make money. He's has mouths to feed just like everyone else.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

Anytime I buy a big ticket item I do my research and find out what a reasonable price is. Then I let the person have one chance to get my business by giving me their best price. I am armed with information before that happens. I've told salesmen to their face that they didn't give me their best price and showed them how I know. They don't argue much beyond that. I don't know if $719 qualifies as a big ticket item for you, but that is a lot of money for me.

Sometimes people in business (I know because I'm in business) try to get more out of the customer because of the relationship.If you think you are buying something beyond the bow then you have to ask yourself is the value added worth an extra $120. In my book it isn't.

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big bulls you are right about wal mart, they value their customers and gaurantee the lowest price if you find one lower they will match or beat it, but very rarley do they not have the lowest price. I expect wal mart to have the lowest price. I don't expect them to give me and only me the lowest, the offer everyone the lowest. The reason I think I should be treated different is because of what I spend in his store, I don't care how long someone has to save to buy a bow every five years or how he gets his money, my point being, in the last five years I have spent about $3000.00 in just bows and another guy spends 500.00 in 5 years. In that five year period he still made more off me than the guy who bought one. I think I should be treated different as well as anyone who spends alot in his shop. Now if the shop offers the lowest price to everyone then I have no problem with it.

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Then let the shop owner make that sales pitch. If he is that good, a guy would pay for it, but there has to be a conversation first. There is one hugh misunderstanding in the world today, some where along the line "The customer is always right" got lost. It's called "The shop owner really does have his customers best interest at heart" phylosophy. And I do expect the same from Walmart and they are very helpful. If the shop owner appreciates this costumer then he should show it and if he does show it, the costumer could do the same for him, whether it be with a gift or bringing in costumers or whatever comes to their mind. This is how I have done business for the past 15+ years and it has been a wonderful way to live.

I also wheel and deal at the grocery store. Some people really like helping other people, but you have to give them the chance and it all starts with a conversation.

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I just don't go in to buy a bow I am in there 3 times a week, I help out when he is busy(I offer) I take care of him and thought he should take care of me.

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RE: pro shops and return customers
 

I would take my business down the road.

Any small business owner knows he will earn much more form a buyer in the long run by keeping HIS customers happy. If the dealer gives the loyal customer a discount, you can bet that customer will come back year after year and buy all of his/her supplies from that shop.

I also own a small business and I have cut my bills (sometimes below my cost) for customers that I know will do business with me again and again. I have learned long ago that if you try to make all of your money in one shot by gouging your customers, you will soon be out of business.

My in-laws owned many grocery store and they would discount some items WELL below what they paid for them. But they knew the people who came into the store to buy those items on sale most likely left with a cart full of other items.

Bottom line: You must be good to your customers and provide a good service. Take a little hit in one area and make a fortune in others.

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As a bussiness owner (not bow shop) i apreiciate a customer who is upfront about his or her concerns about my pricing. With loyal customers I,as an owner, have to weigh many factors when pricing big ticket items but on the other hand I also have to be as fair with my prices as i can to a customer that i have never met before. So imo tell the shop owner your concerns and let him make you a deal or explain why he cant , if you are the loyal customer as u have stated he would be a fool to lose you.

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Well now that's a different story than just being a customer.

You guys have to remember that these small pro shops are not making huge ammounts of money. Many only "take home" 40,000 to 60,000 per year.

Like I said earlier he may have to pay a lot more that the cheaper guy does. Depending on how many he sells and how he has to pay for them when he gets them one shop could get them for as little as $512 and the other shop may have to pay as much as $602. You don't know the whole story behind his pricing. Also the MSRP on the swotchback is $769. So he is discounting it at least some and it may be as much as he can afford to discount it.

That's what you get to deal with when you buy a Mathews. They do not treat all the dealers as equals and therefore the dealers can't treat all the customes as equals.

Many bow companies will give the dealers set prices that they must sell the bows for so everyone gets the same fair treatment. Mathews does not do this.

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BigJ12 by all means I don't want him to lose a penny I understand he needs to make money and I support that. I agree he needs to keep the customers he has happy.

Bigbulls that is why I am a little upset. When he is busy I offer to help and get behind the counter and work on bows or help customers decide on a bow or help with cutting arrows.

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Have you given an oath to the proshop to only buy there? Have they given one to you to always give you the lowest price? If one of you cheats and does the other wrong it hurts feelings and causes trouble. You might need that proshop later and he will not want to service your bow bought at another shop.
What kind of commitments are in between you and the proshop? Does the guy at the proshop give breaks in price to others and not you? Just because you buy there every year does not mean you are entitled to a price break. Talk to the guy and tell him the price at another shop. All major bow makers have prices they can not allow dealers to sell below. If one dealer can do it so can another. Talk to the guy. Don't cheat on your local proshop... unless they are unfaithful to you.

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Do you really know that? Coming from a shop owning family, not archery but sewing supplies, it wasn't unusual for my mother to sell a machine for very close to cost in order to gain a permanent customer for fabrics and trimming. We've all heard of this in many ventures; "I'd just about give you one of these just to get your parts business". The other shop may not be making much at all.

I would still be very up front but friendly with your original shop, and let them know you need some latitude. Don't expect them to give you a $120 break, but a little more than half that would start into the reasonable range.

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Jones123, I guess I should not have said "I know" the other shop is making money. I just assumed since the tag hanging on the bow said 599.00 he would be making a little. If he is not making anything then he should put a higher price on the bow.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

The very most he is making is $87.00 on that bow for that price.

I know some shops will drasticly undercut another shop just to get people in the door and sell the bows because they can't get them in any other way and they can't keep them coming back.

Is there any bad blood between these two shops?

I know of one shop that sold Bowtech AT COST just to take business fron a new shop about 25 miles away from him. Why would he do this you ask. Because owner of the new shop down the road use to work for the first shop but decided to open up his own. The first shop didn't like that too much so he tried to take as much business as possible from the new shop and hopefully force him to close.

It didn't work and now the first shop does not carry Bowtech any more.

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As much as possible I like to give my business to the same shop. I am just getting back into archery so I have not settled on "MY" pro shop yet. But I have been a firearms junkie for many years dealing mostly with one shop. I have on occasion knowingly spent more because of the ongoing give and take. If you are that close to this guy and actually help around the shop then you should give him another kick at the can, show him what the other price was. You will likely get another quote which might fly for you. I would definitely try to keep a customer like you ( 6 bows in 5 years, geeez man) happy. If this guy is a business man he will adjust his price. Better to make a small margin on a big ticket item than lose a bunch of high margin ( accesssories etc) sales.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

Well said.

Alot of money can be made on accessories for bows, often more is spent on sights, arrows, strings, rests, etc... than the bow itself. Good buisness move is to discount the bow and then sell all of those accessories you can't live without for that sharp new bow.

In my business, it makes no sence if I charge company "A" too much for my services and get no more work. But If I cut my bill for company "A" especially if I know he wants and or needs a discount, it will make him feel he is getting a deal (and he is) then he will come to me for more work in the future. Classic win-win situation, and in busness that's what you want. Good customers are hard to get and very easy to loose. And i'm not just talking about individual people, (although in this case it is) my customers are corporations and even they want or sometimes need discounts.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

That's a pretty naive statement. It's done in most all businesses most every day. If someone buys from you in mass quantities you give them price breaks. The fact that I am putting $500 - $1000 of profit in his pocket every year is what seperates the two of us. That doesn't make me any better but it means if the Pro Shop owner wants my hard earned money that I should be treated in such a manner. It's a service industry just like any other. You may not like it but that's how it works all over this world. So let's say that you own a Pro Shop and you have all this overhead and bills etc. and I spend about $2500 -$3000 a year in your shop and Joe spends $250 - $300 a year. You can only have one of us as a customer. Which one is it going to be? Guess what, if you picked Joe you aren't going to be in business long. I am not saying that you shouldn't give Joe great service also but if I am taking care of you by patronizing your store exclusively then you better take care of me as well or I will excercise my right to take my business elsewhere. Afterall, I am the one who's business and dollars you can't on year in and year out. In a highly cyclical market place I am the type of customer that you have to rely on to sty in business. I am also the type of customer that will send everyone that I know to your shop if you treat me well.

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Walmart gives me the "best" price right upfront so to answer your question, Yes.

If I bought a bow every year for the past 5 years I'd expect to get prefered treatemnt. That's the beauty of the situation. If the shop owner dosen't care to (assuming he can lower his price and still make a profit) give me a good deal I can drive down the road and save $120.00. For some $120.00 may not be a big deal but to others like myself who support a wife and two young boys, $120.00 to spend on myself is quite a bit of money. Espically if I need not spend it to get the same exact product down the road a bit.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

You know ash that seems to be the going attitude for our local shops. Your one of the regular customers that got this guy up and running to make his shop a success. You do your business there and send who knows how many customers his way and this is how he rewards your loyalty. Once a shop get established and starts to turn a profit they have a chosen few that they favor and receive price breaks and the rest of their loyal customers pay for the hunts the chosen few take at your expense. Buy from the other guy. The word will get out from people like you and eventually the other guy will be the one with all the business. We had one shop in the area that pulled this crap. The former owner is now back to his old 8 to 5 job for being money hungry jerk.

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A year and a half ago, I was in the same predicament. I was planning on buying a new bow + accessories. One shop was selling it for $750 and was reported to have great service. I found the same bow less than ten minutes from my house for $599. I bought the bow there to save the much needed money. They set up everything for me and everytime I go back, they will do anything I need done for next to nothing.

Last week, I went there to have them check out my bow which I fell on the last day of the season. I also had them cut 1/2 dozen arrows I had to length and install the inserts. I also got 7 field points. They charged me 5 bucks! That's why I'm a good customer there.

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Let me add something here. I also am friends with the guy that runs the Pro-Shop that I now frequent. Like ash, I usually jump in and help them out when I am there and they are swapmed. I always let them wait on other customers ahead of me casue I normally schedule enough time to shoot the bull when I am there and because they take such good care of me I try to return the favor. I actually bought a $20 hand warmer from them a while back and it literally just fell apart on me the first day I used it. I just wrote it off. It certainly wasn't their fault so I wasn't going to take it back to them and ask for my money back after all that they do for me. I could have sent it back to the factory but it wasn't that big of a deal. I told them about it and they said bring it back and we'll give you a new one. I said "no, with all you guys do for me the last thing I am worried about is that handwarmer". I was afraid it would have wound up costing them something (shipping or something) and though they wouldn't have minded, after the money they save me, there was no way I was going to cost them money over a $20 dollar item.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

well #1 anybody trying to sell the switch back for 719 is a greedy SOB in my opinion, go to the other shop

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

I know that patronage usually pays off, even if it is a first bow. I know I would get great deals at one shop and only went there for a year. he should drop the price for you. in this situation, I'd tell him, 'this is business, nothing personal' and buy the other bow for 120 less.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

I want to give you my input as a retail shop owner. Granted, I do not sell bows or
anything to do with hunting. but man, to buy that many bows from a dealer, I would expect him to treat you as a V. I . P.
These are not small purchases, and if you have been his loyal customer during all these purchases, you would not expect the guy to treat you as "just anyone".
I give my best customers extra special treatment to let them know just how very much I value them as my loyal customers and appreciate their business. I would be completely up front with the guy, quote him the other price, and let him make the call... does he value your business? or Will he risk losing you?

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RE: pro shops and return customers
 

What happens if he sells it to you for cheap and you go out and tell people the price you paid. They would all go into the shop expecting a cheap price. Finding out they couldn't get it for what you paid for it they would never go back. Maybe make a deal with the guy that you'll buy the bow if he throw's in the site.

RE: pro shops and return customers
 

I guess we have alot of greedy SOB's around here!