Would you support....
 

Would you support your state counting fawn buttons as bucks instead of antlerless deer?

I say they are bucks and should be counted as such.

How about you?

*EDIT*
I am speaking from a biological standpoint. Not a hunting aspect.*

RE: Would you support....
 

err, no. The reason the law is like that is because you cant tell alot of times if one has buttons or not, why should they change that law?
When i am shooting a deer i look very closely at the head to see if i see any buttons or not. This was the first year i have shot one, i couldent see them. other times i could tell and let them pass.

RE: Would you support....
 

From a biological standpoint it would all depend on the fawn mortality rates. If a good percentage of fawns are not expected to live. The button bucks might not make it anyway therefore I think it would be hard to base any buck to doe ratios on this count. From a hunting standpoint I think that it would be hard for anyone with minimal experience to hold steady for the shot let alone see if the darn thing had buttons or not. The meat on a button buck is fairly scarce in comparison to a year old buck. I say let em grow and base the buck to doe ratios on visible horned bucks. Of course I am used to hunting in 4 pt only areas so it would be unthinkable to even shoot a forked horn. (4 point meaning 4 on each side not including brow tines.) I am by no means a trophy hunter but I say let em grow.

RE: Would you support....
 

I edited my post to be more specific. Thanks.

RE: Would you support....
 

From a biological standpoint, yes. From the hunters perspective, no. Though in Washington we're allowed one deer, regardless.

RE: Would you support....
 

My biological part of the post still stands. How can biologists accuratly count the buck to doe ratio without knowing the fawn mortality rates. Example, if X amount of bucks need to be harvested and X amount of does need to be harvested then you can not harvest button bucks and get close to the needed numbers. If the wildlife biologists count the button bucks into the harvest and a larger amount of button bucks are harvested than more mature bucks, you had better pray for a light winter or you won't having enough carry over to replentish the supply. IMO you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

RE: Would you support....
 

Bio stand point, yes, because there are ALOT of button bucks shot around here. But from a huntin standpoint, no. Sometimes you just cant tell the difference.

RE: Would you support....
 

Elk

Either way the buttons are being harvested each and every year. Why not count them as bucks in the harvest quota instead of anterless deer?

It skews the buck to doe ratio big time when you look at the yearly harvest data.

For example say 100,000 antlered bucks were harvested along with 200,000 antlerless deer for the season. It throws it out of perspective.

If they don't want to count buttons as antlerd deer than thats OK but they should note how many of those 200,000 were in fact buttons or antlerless bucks IMO.

RE: Would you support....
 

In most states harvest reports it is indicated that the deer was male or female on the antlerless reports. So the game commision knows the amount of bucks or does that are harvested and whether they were juvenile or not. If a state does choose to implement the law then it sould do away with shooting button bucks on antlerless tags. Most people can not tell the difference between a button buck and a doe that is why it has to included in the antlerless class. If people were able to take a button buck that they knew was a button buck on their buck tag , then that would definately scew the buck harvest numbers as you would be substituting a breeding age buck for a juvenile. If the harvest of button bucks exceeds limits for a year the amount of more mature buck harvests(over 2.5 years) would go up the following year also as there would be less bucks taken that year in the 1.5 year range.

RE: Would you support....
 

Here in WV, you check the deer in as a Buck, Doe, or button buck. From a biological standpoint, I think it would be wasting your time and giving a false "reading" if you were trying to sit down and think up the regulations for the next year. But then again, thats probably why I'm sitting in front of a computer on the internet and not in the DNR's headquarters. [8D]

RE: Would you support....
 

I am not saying count the button towards your buck tag but rather on the year end harvest report.

Whether it is juvenile or mature it is a buck none the less. I believe buttons should be represented as a buck on the year end harvest data rather than antlerless.

I would like to know how many bucks were killed, not just antlered bucks in my harvest report.

If 50,000 buttons were killed out of the 200,000 antlerless harvest that is 50,000 less antlered bucks the following year.

As I said I believe counting does doe fawns and button as antlerless throws off the actual sex ratio harvest when reading the harvest data.

Thats for sure!

RE: Would you support....
 

I think that we can all agree that it makes for some interesting conversation though Josh.

RE: Would you support....
 

I see that we are on the same page now. How is the year end data collected in Ohio? Here in Idaho you are not allowed to purchase next years lisc. unless you turn in a report which asks all the needed info to set up next years harvest and also the buck to does ratios. Winter is also a big factor for us and they are constantly tracking the collared fawns to determine mortality for any given year. It is a tough task, especially now that the wolves are gobbling up their share. When I was growing up in NY I remember that we had to put the sex of the animal on the antlerless reports also. Button buck, doe etc. At that time you could put an antlered buck on a doe tag in that state which I beleive is not legal anymore. What part of Ohio are you from? I have relatives from Circleville to Deleware?

When you said counted on your original post I thought that you meant as on your tag, I get a little scatter brained from time to time. I think it comes from high altitude hunting.

RE: Would you support....
 

I live up in the NE part of the state. Trumbull county.

We have to take our deer to a check station. At the check station they fill out the paper work for the deer. They do mark if it is a button but only publish the report as antlered or antlerless.(or I should say the only reports I have saw)

Winter is not such a factor here. It may take the weak or sick deer out of hte herd but our winters are not that harsh. Although it has been rather cold winter this year.

RE: Would you support....
 

Buckeye,I used to drive through that area alot. My grandmother lives in Columbus and I used to drive from the Rochester New York area where I grew up at, to visit her. I haven't been in Ohio for a long time but can still almost taste the coconut spread from Stuckey's. I have lived in Idaho this time for almost 9 years and will never leave again. I have grown to love hunting in areas that have size limits on the bucks. I took a couple of guys from back east out mulie hunting and we bagged a 150 class 3 point and a 170 class 4 point in one of these areas this past year. I have grown to love desert deer hunting but still IMO nothing beats a big ole bull elk on the ground.

RE: Would you support....
 

Sounds like the place to be for mulies. Couple of nice ones there.

Now you want to talk about antler restrictions...... I am all for em[8D]

RE: Would you support....
 

I have hunted in many areas that have antler restrictions. We have ALOT of public land and there are areas geared towards meat harvesting and trophy hunting. One of which I used this year because of lack of time. The areas that have antler restrictions produce 200 class bucks. I like to draw in these areas but will usually not hold out for the big big boys. I will however take nice bucks every time I draw on these hunts.150-180 class bucks are the average for these areas. We do have a hunt with no antler restictions that is bowhunting only for the late season and is set up on a winter migration route and during the rut. It is not uncommon to see 200-300 deer in a day. 20- 30 will be bucks and 4-5 will be way up in p&y. I start bowhunting the 15th of August for antelope and can hunt big game all the way until the end of the year for hoofed creatures and can shoot cats until march. In april bear opens until June, we have a break from June until the 30th of august and the cycle starts all over. A guy has to learn to pace himself out here. No you can see why I will never leave again. Although I am going out of state to hunt with Stealthman this year. I haven't chased white-tails in a while.

RE: Would you support....
 

We got whities and turkeys here for bowhunting. Thats it, you guys got it all out there.

We do grow some good deer here though no complaints there from me;)

RE: Would you support....
 

I'm afraid I'd have to say NO I wouldn't consider them as buck's .These fawn's buck or doe's are our future and if we considered them as buck's here in Ont I'm afraid it would hurt our deer herd's considerably .When we purchase our tag's we are given a buck tag automatically and then we have to put into a draw to draw a doe tag.Some area's have a considerable amount of doe's and fawn's ,these area's hand out a good surplas of doe tag's, but other area's it's almost impossible to get doe tag's .

nubo

RE: Would you support....
 

Lets see, to name a few -elk, mountain goat, bighorn, moose, white-tail, mule deer, antelope, bear, cougar, 3 species of turks, bobcat. I can't even begin to start naming the small game species. I would fill this page with them and the rest of the fur bearers. I managed to take and antelope buck, mule deer buck, bull elk and 2 turkies last year. I ended up with a quarter of a moose for heping out a friend. I am getting ready to start baiting bears this spring.

RE: Would you support....
 

I agree with you from a biological standpoint, but realisticly it would be nearly impossible to enforce. It is difficult to see the buttons on some deer even with a high powered rifle scope, yet alone a bow or open sighted muzzleloader. I think it would be great and would yield more bucks next year, but not realistic.

RE: Would you support....
 

In Texas if you "accidentally" shoot a button buck, the you are allowed to use an anterless tag. I don't agree with it for the same reasons Buckeye stated, they are not getting accurate buck/doe harvest numbers.

Besides, I fing the excuse that you can't tell very hard to swallow, especially if you're bowhunting. It's a close range sport and I don't feel there's any excuse for shooting a button while bowhunting.

RE: Would you support....
 

definately!

RE: Would you support....
 

A button buck is a fawn and should not be shot. There is a definate difference between a doe and a fawn and hunters shoud be able to refrain from shooting fawns.

When I took my son on his very first hunt, I had stressed to him to not shoot at fawns. He had a fawn under him for nearly 2 hours the very first evening and never even lifted the bow from it's hook. His first deer ended up being a P&Y buck!

A button buck is a buck and should be counted as such. Every monster buck started out as a button buck and would never have been impressive if they had been killed when they were young and easy to take.