Shot my rockets open...
 

After reading another thread the other day I played around shooting my wolverine 3p's with a rubber band holding them OPEN. My bow shoots around 285 fps and is very well tuned.

They flew very well and made a wicked entry hole.

I shot them with some fixed blades and hand torqued the bow a bit and they flew better than the fixed. There is less blade to catch wind and all in all flew about as good as the closed heads.

I will play around some more, but I think there may be something here.
A "fixed head that handles form flaws a little better than regular fixed heads and will probably penetrate petter than when closed.

It may be a good idea for lower KE setups, or even higher ones.

Anyone try this? Any thoughts

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

I did some playing around with my rocket steelheads last year to see how they shot open. I didn't even put a band on them to hold them open I just let it fly in whatever position the blades were in. I got very good groups with them. I didn't hunt with them that way but wanted to see what would happen if at the moment of truth I pulled an arrow out with out a band to hold it closed. I could see how the small blades held open would have less resistance than alot of fixed blades.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing. In fact, I'd love to see 5 shot do a penetration test comparing the same type head, shot open and closed, as well as an accuracy comparison between a field tip, the closed head and the open head. 5 shot? Anyone?



Edited by - Rangeball on 09/05/2002 16:46:43

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

SW Iowa Hunter

When you shot your mech without any bubber band , did the target indicate all three blades were open on impact?
I would think the forward thrust on the arrow would open the blades completely.

Rack-attack

Have you tried this without the rubber band , just letting the blades hang loose?
You may very well be on to something here!

"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

sound sinteresting but I am not sure I would want to test them that way just for safty reasons

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Does anyone have access to a machine shop?

You could open the blades completely , tap a hole the same size as the one currently in the ferrule to hold the blades completely open. You could use the same set screws that are in there now.

"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Haha, I remember when guys debated over whether or not to use vented one-piece heads for fear that the "vent" could be a weak spot that could allow the broadhead to fail if it contacted hard parts in a whitetail. Now there's guys who don't bat an eye shooting flyweight, multi-piece, disposable broadheads at twice the speed, with spindley blade arms flittering loosely in the wind, held onto the broadhead with nothing but tiny watch screws.

My how ideas change! I think I should market my own broadheads; 6-packs of 10 penny deck screws that mount to the arrow with duct tape. They'd be a real steal at $40 a pack and I'd bet they fly just like field points... :)

~AK (much prefer the beefy stuff) in PA

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Because of all the rhetoric; that a mechanical head is mandatory to enable a broadhead tipped shaft to fly straight, or that fixed broadheads must be worthless because they do not fly the same as a field-tipped shaft, or that fixed broadheads are inferior because they do not hit the same spot on the target as the field-tipped shafts do, or that mechanical broadheads make a much better wound channels and penetrate better, one who is uninformed would have to feel ashamed to claim he or she shoots fixed heads.

I pray a law is never passed and made retroactive, requiring that anyone who has ever killed game with a fixed broadhead must somehow resurrect the animal and return it to the wild. Starving and dying animals due to overpopulation vs. available food and habitat would be incredible.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

AK

You hit the mark dead center. A better analogy cannot be found. Almost poetic.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

AK & C903

Your sarcasm cracks me up<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I'll admit there have been many threads on that topic (mechs -vs- fixed) where your sarcasm would deffinately be appropriate.

But , I see this thread as innovative tinkering , not fixed head bashing.

[img]http://www.whitetails.com/00deer21.gif&quot;&gt;
&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;


Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/05/2002 20:28:31

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

My buddy &quot;Kidd642&quot; was forced to shoot a Rocket &quot;Wolverine&quot; with no o-ring in place a few years ago as an attempt at a finishing shot at a buck......the o-ring came off his last arrow as he pulled it from the quiver.
He tried the shot anyway in an attempt to put the buck down for good and said that the arrow flew terribly and he described it as a &quot;Knuckleball&quot; flying a foot low under the deer at 30 yards.
Turned out he didn't need a finishing shot as the deer dropped seconds later, but felt he'd better try it at the time.......his one try at the &quot;blades open&quot; theory wasn't a very good one.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

I see very little issue with the strength of a mech head held in the open possition due to the &quot;tiny watch screws&quot; holding the blades in. In my recent tests (developing a better way to test head....more realistic) I have found that those watch screws are the least likely place for the blade to break. Also, the mech blades, while not as tall (surface area) are usually thicker than replaceable fixed blade heads. In fact, during recent tests the Shockwave blades survived better than the vaunted Muzzy blades!!!
FYI, My shoulder blade simulation tests will most likely have the mech blades open (they will shoot through other media first....most shoulder blades ARE found inside the animal). I think this will show if the mech heads are getting much of their unexpectedly good penetration by not haveing the blades open when they hit something hard, or if they simply ARE better at penetrating than many fixed heads.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

I agree that you might be onto something here, BUT, depending on cut diameter of certain types, you better be careful you don`t hit the riser with the blades!
When punchcutters first came out, I accidentally shot one without the o-ring holding the blades in....a tip from one of the blades is STILL sticking in the shelf of my old high country trophy hunter!
BTW, that was the cleanest miss I ever made at 10 yards!

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Rack-Attack - You results do not surprise me - I wouldn't be surprised to see fixed heads coming out in the future that emulate the open position of some of the mechanicals.

I tried my Rocky mountain Snypers with the blades open, and
closed, without a rubber band, They flew as well as with it. I tested it in case the rubber band &quot;fell off&quot; when I needed to shoot. I do not expect this to happen - I hope it does not. I was happy with the penetration and the accuracy none the less..

I pulled out last years thunderheads and tried them as well, just for kicks. While they flew OK, they did not group as tight, also I find that if in the excitment I accidently &quot;punch&quot; the release, the Snypers are SOOOOOO much more forgiving, like a field tip is. The thunderheads require a much more &quot;subtle release&quot; to fly well, at least with my setup.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

An excellent and interesting idea. I tried something similar with an expandable head a couple seasons ago. The head in question was absolutely horrible, in my opinion, when it was in its &quot;natural&quot; closed position..both in terms of penetration and accuracy. But, when I opened the blades the head, not surprisingly, penetrated better though the accuracy was still poor.

Ofcourse, the length of the blades and the cutting diameter had alot to do with the poor design in general.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Fanatic, I did shoot a few &quot;loose&quot; and yes they are completely open on impact at 25 yds.

Matt, There is a chance your buddy had a loose blade hit the riser as they tend to hang low if a blade is facing straight down. I barely had clearance when they were loose.

After the rubberband I applied some wax into the groove just infront of the blade and that also keeped the blades opened nicely.

After repeated shooting the blades did begin to bend and notch where they contact the metal washer in front of the insert.

They defenitly fly better than fixed heads when good form is compromised (when I torqued the bow). They do not plane as much as the thunderheads and muzzy's I used in the &quot;test&quot;.

I don't know if there is a real world application or not. they would be a real pain to keep in the quiver though. And you can't lock them back because then they become barbed.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Punchcutters. Man that brings back memories...

For the record, I shoot fixed blades, steelforce to be exact, and they fly just like field points for me at around 300 fps. While I think there is nothing wrong with what is being done by shooting open mechanicals (provided adequate clearance, etc), I see no reason to do so unless it dramatically increases penetration or decreases the risk of lack of penetration on angled shots. To each his own, assuming all the basics are covered (adequate ke, tuned bow, good form, etc). By the way, If you want forgiveness in form (grip torque), use a drop away rest.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Rangeball,

I have no problem getting my fixed heads to fly with both my field point and bare shafts at 285 fps. The reason I am switching to mechanicals is because perfect form is much harder to achieve in a tree stand under hunting &quot;pressure&quot; and conditions. I am trying to eliminate that one flyer out of 20 or so that almost always creeps in when your freezing and exited, standing 18' off the ground.

Mechanicals greatly reduce the affects of any hand torque or non perfect release, and that is the appeal to me.

I did not say I would hunt with them open, just throwing around some ideas and experiances.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Rack, I wouldn't see any problem with you hunting with them open. I think you'd be fine either way if you should ever choose to do so.

Assuming you aren't already, have you considered using a drop away rest? I know what you're talking about with perfect form being hard to achieve when the pressure's on, and a Savage drop away solved this problem for me, coupled with a no-peep to point out any grip torque. But in the end, Shoot whatever you feel comfortable with.

I think what you are experimenting with is interesting, and I hope to read more about it from you.

RE: Shot my rockets open...
 

Range, I shoot a drop away and use the no-peep, they have both made me a much more accurate shooter. I have both muzzy 75 grn. and th 85 grn fixed heads ready to go along with my rockets and snipers.

I am sure the no-peep will be a great aid in keeping form on the stand (I have not hunted with it yet), I like the assurance of a mechanical, just incase the fever hits hard.

Thanks for your input.:)

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