Black bear broadhead question?
 

I have had 2 different opinions on broadhead choice, one person said to stick with fixed broadheads and the guy who owns the bow shop I go to showed me pics of what a mechanical(spitfire)did to a black bear, massive entry wound, tore up a lot of tissue passing through. The reason I ask is because even though I am not going exclusively bear hunting, one of the counties I hunt in has a season on black bear that partialy corresponds with deer season. Should I stick with just the spitfires or carry a few fixed blades in my quiver?

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

I'd sacrifice a spitfire into a new piece of plywood and see for yourself what it looks like coming out the backside.
If oyu have a great shot that is double lung and/or heart you are going to have a Bear skin rug in short order BUT if you get a little foward and get the shoulder blade then things are going to get "interesting" in a hurry.
I want to KNOW what my head is going to do in less than perfect situations. I shoot Muzzy's and when I was selecting broadheads for my first Elk trip this is what I did.
8 to 10 inches on the other side of a 3/4 inch piece of new ply and the arrow was still true left nothing to my imagination on a mistake by me.
13 years later no reason for me to change.

Good Luck Taz and I can't wait to see your Bear!


Greg

"Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus."

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Although a bears hair is thicker than that of a whitetail, the black bears hide is thinner. Any setup that is proficient for whitetail, is proficient for black bear. Shot placement is the key.

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

I like fixed too. Simple and reliable. The guide I used in Canada recommended Snuffer 125 gr. I used a Hoyt Bow Bullet (140 gr.). The blades go in from the front. I passed all the way through my bear and stuck the broadhead in the bait barrel. Then the broadhead came apart. For that reason I don't think I personally would use a mechanical, too many parts. I use a Wasp Hammer SST 100 gr. 3 blade on deer and have enough confidence in it that I wouldn't hesitate to use it on bear.

Darn that Rob, I replied to your other post and Rob locked it just before I submitted this.

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

I watched a bear hunting video last month , I think it was called &quot;Bear-n-Down on black bears&quot;. Anyway , the husband and wife in the video , both shot the NAP shockwaves. All of them left excellent blood trails , and the wife had a complete pass thru on a big blonde bear. The video said she was shooting 43ftlbs of kinetic energy.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

I agree with Robb, in that any head that works well for you on deer should also work very well for black bear.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

I think a mech would be just dandy for bear. If you wanna see what would be more realistic, shoot the spitfire through a jug of water before shooting the plywood. Shhoting the plywood alone can give false results as the blades could either
a: go through the hole...saving the blade
or
b: get stuck on the flat hard surface while opening. Unrealistic as most shoulder blades are INSIDE of the animal (under hide,fat, and some meat)
The jug of water will open the blades the way the hide/fat/meat would.
You could also try coconuts. the round shape doesn't catch the blades. I have found coconuts to be nearly as hard on blades as a steel drum (wait till I post my Muzzy/coconut pics).

As stated before...if you shoot in the vitals (NOT the shoulder) you shouldn't have any problems with the mech head.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Well I see I am getting a mixed opinion here also, I think I will put a couple of fixed broadheads in my quiver just to play it safe, I will be honest though, after seeing what that spitfire did to the black bear in the photos I was very impressed.

dartonjames I am not actually going bear hunting, I am going to be deer hunting and the county I am hunting in has black bear and the season is from 12 Oct.-9 Nov., the deer season is from 5 Oct-16 Nov. If I get a chance at a black bear I am going to take it, but only if it is a PERFECT broadside shot less than 20 yards! Even then I may chicken out, there is something about a bear that makes me nervous. LOL

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Why is it that folks that test mechanicals have the need to shoot them through plywood?

I'm not a fan of mechanicals but will not bash them...but it seems to me that if you want a real test you should shoot them through some material that more models a live critter.

Foam comes to mind as a better choice. Unless, of course, you are hunting plywood..

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

cyclone,
From my understanding of test mediums, foam actually constricts on the arrow as it passes through causing resistance and slow down the peretration where-as flesh pulls apart slightly allowing for more penetration.
As for Plywood? What test medium represents bone?
When I test a broadhead, I am looking for what it does under a worst-case senerio. I know ANY broadhead made will kill an animal when slipped between the ribs and into the boilerroom. Remember the Indians used small(generally under 3/4 inch width) flint heads for many years very sucessfully.

I wnat to know what I have after the worst possible hit. Will I have enough left after punching through the shoulder, that will cause a quickly fatal wound. IF the head fails on plywood, I keep looking as it most likly will fail it I mess up the shot and try to put it through the point of the shoulder.

My view only on this subject!




Greg

&quot;Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus.&quot;

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I wnat to know what I have after the worst possible hit. Will I have enough left after punching through the shoulder, that will cause a quickly fatal wound.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Good point Greg. This is exactly why I use a quality fixed head. Eventually all hunters run into this situation, and I want all the advantage I can have if/when this happens.

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

For Black bear over bait I would look to leave as big of a hole as you can since they tend to be close up & the thick hair keeps from leaving a masive blood trail. A good head to look at in this situation is the Golden Key 'DESTROYER' Dead Head 6. It would leave a massive hole which shouldn't close up at all. Of course it is not a mechanical head.

Good Luck!

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

As for Plywood? What test medium represents bone?
When I test a broadhead, I am looking for what it does under a worst-case senerio.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Bone would represent bone pretty well don't you think...Get a shoulder blade from this years kill and shoot through it. Try it from different angles also....try to hit as close to the ridge as possible too..If need be freeze it and use it later..


And don't get too hyped up over the size of the exit holes of those mechanicals either...Those Indians that used those little flint heads would've told you that a small hole through the boiler is better than a crater through the gut...better off worrying about placement.

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

I am finalizing some tests and I think I have a fair simulator for both bone, and meat.
Plywood and foam don't work as they grab the arrow after the shot.
While I won't be using them for my penetration tests (pics and results will be posted on the web) I WILL be using cococnuts for durability shootouts. I found them to be VERY good indicators of performance through bone. The only thing I have agains't them is that being organic, it's hard to find 2 identical coconuts. I make sure they are the same size and weight...but still I don't want a bad coconut to make a head look better than it is.

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Taz -
We have used expandables for the past 5-6 years and have loved them. The only problem is that sometimes, under ideal conditions things can go wrong, after the arrow has been released. There is always the concern for the game being pursued, however in the case of bear, they can climb up a tree and chew on your toes, or worse.

I have switched back to Muzzy's this year due to the performance on one shot last year that I fealt the outcome would have been different using fixed blades.

- Mike

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Taz, don't hesitate to shoot at a bear if it's in your range and presents a good shot. My bear died quicker (down and doing the death moan -that was scary- in less then 5 seconds) then any of my deer and went a shorter distance (19 paced yards) then any without a spine shot.

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am finalizing some tests and I think I have a fair simulator for both bone, and meat.
Plywood and foam don't work as they grab the arrow after the shot.
While I won't be using them for my penetration tests (pics and results will be posted on the web) I WILL be using cococnuts for durability shootouts. I found them to be VERY good indicators of performance through bone. The only thing I have agains't them is that being organic, it's hard to find 2 identical coconuts. I make sure they are the same size and weight...but still I don't want a bad coconut to make a head look better than it is.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Stealth,
What is the representation for the meat over the bone?
I think the coconut would be a good test for bone itself.


cyclone,
We couln't agree more on shot placement! But as I said, what I want to know for myself, is if I miss a shot what I have left as far as the broadhead goes.

Shooting a leftover bone, even after it has been frozen, to me dosn't give a fair representation of a live animal's bone due to lack of muscle and tendon tension.
I don't have a better idea of a bone medium! just that for me the plywood is stout enough to give a representation. Is it the best? I don't think so but as I said I don't have a better one right now.

Taz Good Luck!



Greg

&quot;Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus.&quot;

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Right now, for the meat, we are looking at BASICALLY, a mix of gelatin (heavy mix), and flour poured over a section of loose filter media. Much like a filter for a furnace...not a paper one, but more like the open fiber style.

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Well I really appreciate all the great advice from all of you, but it looks like the question for me is now moot!!! When I went over to see the landowner yesterday and was validating what I can and can not do I asked him about bear and he told me they had a few, but asked me not to shoot any! Rats, oh well maybe I can find some other property around his area that will allow me to shoot a bear. In the mean time there are a ton of deer on the property and for the first time in 93 years the stream that runs through the property is dry, so the only place the deer can get water is the main river where the stream used to dump in it.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: Black bear broadhead question?
 

Scratch, scratch, scratching head......Plywood represents bone better than bone?

Ok, so then cut the entire shoulder, (skin, meat and all) off of your next kill and try it out. To me this would be acceptable for the sake of research...but then one could argue that the target butt might add more or less the resistance that the live animal would...


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>if I miss a shot what I have left as far as the broadhead goes. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I'm assuming that you mean miss the shot by hitting shoulder blade..otherwise that is why those broadheads come in packs of 3 and 6...Although I am not a fan of expandables, I'll have to admit that I have looked and wondered how I would like them..I have been tempted..