RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Atlas

Then in your opinion what is the most naive careless deer in the woods??

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Sorry , we call a fawn a yearling , and yes your right , a 1 1/2 year old is not considered a mature deer , however a 1 1/2 year old doe is a prime doe to harvest for QDM.

I dont know what you mean?

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Your "status" always reads offline and your name is not visible while your reading threads or in the forums like everyone elses.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Can anyone second that? I can see my name on top just like everyone elses. [&:]

BTW , it would be nice to get some of the others that dont understand "meat hunters" in on this thread.;)

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

I am for sure. If you look in your profile you will see an option its called "hide from online user list".

You most likely have it checked.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

I understand "meat hunters". I just choose to not participate in this practice.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Can you see me now?:D Your correct , I had no idea that box was checked. I could see my name on top (the fonts were different though) I assumed everyone else could see me. I had a bunch of boxes checked in a row and that was one of them.

I did notice something else , I have the notification boxes checked but I never get any email notification of replys to threads.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

When you reply click the box at the bottom that says "Notify me via e-mail when someone replies" and you will recieve the emails.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Most police agencies create a contact list of people who are interested in receiving deers involved in accidents. The Law Enforcement agency will tag the deer for you and you will not have to burn your own. This is another option for those who opt to wait for their trophy.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Not part of either scenario I've given , but anyway , I'll pass on the road kill.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Any first year deer (6 months old)


Maybe that's what you meant by yearling..............if not, how do you figure a 1 1/2 yr old buck is easier to kill then a 6 month old?

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Buckeye,


What kind of land do you hunt on?

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Atlas

I hunt farm lands in NE Ohio.

1 1/2 year old yearling bucks are the most naive deer in the woods. They make more mistakes than the other sex or any other age class of deer. Yearling bucks are also very curious by nature.

Sure in most cases you will have a crack at a doe or fawn before a yearling buck. That is because does and fawns out number yearling bucks 5 to 1 or maybe even higher.

So, sure odds are you will see a doe and fawns before a yearling buck but nearly every doe is smarter and better at eluding hunters than a young buck. Does do a fine job of tending to their fawns.

Theoretically speaking say the deer ratio was 1 to 1 to 1. 1 doe and a fawn to 1 yearling buck.

I would be willing to bet the yearling buck would be the first to make a fatal mistake to a hunter.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Before getting back to my 2nd scenario I have a quick question for you Buckeye.

Do you currently practice QDM?

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

That explains a lot. The land you get to hunt is what shapes your views and opinions on deer and hunting. A yearling buck on land that has low or no hunting pressure will be a lot different then a yearling buck in the heavily hunted public battlefields. The buck on low pressure land may never have even seen a hunter yet or heard a shot from a gun........the buck in the battlefield probably has a few scrapes on him from close calls last year and had to run for his life numerous times. The buck on low pressure land can walk all over the place without a care in the world because even when he does make a mistake and happens by your stand it doesn't matter because nothing happens anyways............he doesn't know the difference between when he screwed up and when he didn't. The buck in the battlefields KNOWS danger could lurk around EVERY tree. He has seen the human shapes, heard the shots ring out and been shot at himself. He knows what areas to avoid and when to avoid them because he's already been there and done that. Sure a yearling is not some crusty old veteran of the woods but you have to understand that not all bucks behave the same and the enviornment they are in is what shapes that behavior.

Here is a perfect example..........I live in area that is NO hunting. I also live right down the street from a local park with a bunch of woods that are LOADED with deer. They are EVERYWHERE around my house. I have gone out plenty of days to hunt and seen deer in my yard............get skunked in the woods..........and see deer in my yard again when I get home [8D]

I also feed them from time to time if the weather gets bad enough or just to keep them off my bushes. Anyways.........I have had several mature bucks in my yard over the last 3 years. I have had them standing 10 yards from me as I do yardwork or even when I shoot my bow. Now I could easily say to a guy like you that mature bucks are stupid and the easiest animals out there to kill because the ones in my yard ARE stupid..........but WHY are they stupid?? Because humans pose no threat to them and in fact most of the time give them food. Turn the tables and start shooting at those deer in my yard or the park down the road and you will see a DRAMATIC change in their behavior.

Don't let your view through rose colored glasses fool you into thinking that is the way it is EVERYWHERE Buckeye ;)

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Another good example Buckeye.

I have hunted mostly battlefields my whole life. I hunt with too many people to get permission on private land. I could hunt A LOT of private land around here alone..........but when I tell them I have 4 or 6 other guys that I hunt with they all say that's too many.

Oh well.........I won't abandon my hunting buddies and family for a better spot.


So this year my friend gets permission to hunt a farm near our homes. I tell him that I will go there with him only if no one else wants to hunt that day because he only got permission for us 2 guys.

We went a bunch of times for half days and stuff when my brothers were working and we went during bow season.

I saw more deer and more bucks on that 100+ acres of land in 2 weeks then I have seen in the last 4 years anywhere else. I had 4 different bucks within bow range in one morning. Nothing you would shoot but I did. I took a 6 pointer in October........earliest I have EVER filled a tag. We saw plenty of deer and a ton of bucks. At one point in time in my stand I did think to myself "This is too easy" and I can't even imagine how easy it will be come gun season.

I also hunted the battlefields for 16 days this year.............saw one deer. A doe and she was getting away from someone else.


They are TOTALLY different worlds Buckeye.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

I do not adhere to any exact form of QDM. But I do my part to help control the deer herd and improve the quality of the land.

Atlas.

You act as though the "battlefield" does and fawns do not go through the same pressures as the young bucks do. You make it sound only he is pressured and only he learns from the close calls.

With all things being equal "battlefields" or not the 1 1/2 year old buck makes mistakes that does of the same age do not. I still believe the 1 1/2 year old buck is the easiest deer in the herd to shoot.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

I hold out for a 8 point or bigger in Ohio but the last week of archery if I haven't filled my tag it's any buck.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

But in my second scenario you said you still wouldn't shoot young bucks. Wouldn't that be doing your part to help control the herd?

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Bowfanatic

If it were dire circumstances and it absolutely had to be done I would.

Other than that no debate or discussion will ever persuade me to shoot immature animals.

Thats just me.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

When did I say that??

I don't think a buck is easier to kill then a doe or fawn.........you do.

In my experiences does can be very crafty.......if they were not handicapped by having to care for their little ones they would move around a lot less once it hits the fan every fall.

No matter how you slice it a 1 1/2 yr old deer is gonna be more aware then a fawn........they've seen it before. The fawns have no clue.


If that is your opinion that's fine.......I think you are over looking all the mistakes a doe is FORCED to make simply because she can't lay low all day because she has little ones to care for........and I don't see how you think a 6 month old is harder to hunt then a 1 1/2 year old buck.


That wasn't really the point of my whole post. I hope you saw that I was trying to show you that your opinion of a 1 1/2 yr old buck would most likely be different if you were hunting different land. Just because a 1 1/2 yr old buck seems easy to kill on a low pressure farm doesn't translate to real life in most areas.

Like I said I have had several mature bucks in my yard that just stand there while I shoot my bow, swim in my pool or mow my lawn. If I were to come on this board and say that mature bucks are dumb and the easiest deer to hunt/kill I am sure you would object to that right??.............but it is true in MY YARD. What is true in my yard isn't really a good example to go by though.........similar to your farms.

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

........"no debate or discussion will ever persuade me to shoot immature animals."....

And it shouldn't brother! I TOTALLY agree and I have heard the same words uttered from the mouths of some of the biggest names in the whitetail world!

1 1/2 year old (yearling) bucks are without a doubt, THE most naive and easily killed deer in the entire herd!!! This is easily seen in the woods. As you have mentioned there are many factors that contribute to this! A yearling buck actually gets all hormonal and can be easily "blinded" by the rut. He also has fawn dispersment to deal with, meaning for the first time in his life he has to leave his home range, being driven away by his mother to prevent inbreeding. This means you have a naive uneducated yearling who has NO idea where he is or where he is going. This time he also does NOT have the protective maternal instinct of a mature Doe to keep an eye out for him either! This is CLEARLY demonstrated in severe lopsidded harvest ratios! Most states harvest stats are compromised of 60 to 80% YEARLING bucks! WHY? It's certainly not because most of these hunters are waiting for a buck, it's simply because it's the dummies that show up first.... the yearling bucks! In fact, I beleive this can also be proved in several of the Earn a buck hunts like some conducted on special areas in IL. The average hunter simply CAN'T fill his Doe tags because they are MORE difficult to tag then a yearling buck. Again, I will stree that they are easier to kill than fawns bacause a fawn has a mature Doe looking out for it! It's always amazing to me that so many folks want to try sooo hard to convince themselves that a yearling buck is something that they can be proud of instead of emabarrassed about? It's still a macho thing for many guys to sit around with their buddies and be able to say " I got MY buck this year".... whatever! [:@] We just really need some folks to get involved in a quality deer manage plan and start doing their part. I say IF you shoot a yearling buck for ANY reason then you had better be a KID or a first time hunter! There is simply no other excuse. You wanna brag to our friends about killing a deer, try taking on a Mature Doe! Master that and it's Mature trophy class bucks after that. I always thought it was just a natural progression as WE mature as sportsman?? For some, they are stuck back in time, the ol' timers, exactly the reason WHY our herds are so out of whack in the first place. In the end, all this crap is exactly like catch & release was years ago. We all just have to keep repeating to everybody who will listen and to some who act to thick headed to want to listen that this IS the only way to be for the better of the sport, the herd, and overall thoughts and opinions to the general non-hnting public! Don't let these guys try to drag ya down bud, there way of thing is way outdated! Good luck and good shootin'

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Talk about laying it on the table!

BAM!:D

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Then dont preach QDM to anyone if you wouldn't go the opposite direction and take out young bucks if the cycle was reversed like the 2nd scenario I gave.:eek:

Wrong! The nub buck is the easiest deer to kill in the woods.

Really? My freezer is full of doe and I consider myself "the average hunter".

Is it a "macho thing" for you to proclaim that you only shoot big bucks and anyone who shoots anything less should be ashamed? That has to be one of the most hypocritical statements I've read here in a long time!

Why? For the "health of the heard? Or to make it easier for you to obtain your trophy?

Oh lets see , how about nice tasty venison on the table , remember..the reason man started hunting to begin with!:eek:

What about those who dont brag to anyone about shooting a young buck? They just do their own personal business and dont tell anyone else how to hunt!;)

Or it could be that our herds were alot smaller years ago so our DNR's spent many years issueing very few doe permits in order to grow the herd. Guess what , it worked.

Please explain how trophy hunting is "the only way to be for the better of the sport , the herd , and overall thoughts and opinions to the general non-hunting public"???

RE: Meat/Trophy Since we're on the subject..
 

Oh gee........because you heard it on a TV show or at some seminar you paid for a seat in then it MUST be gospel :eek:

Any person on this board could accomplish the exact same things as the "Biggest names in the whitetail world" do if we had the same amount of money, time and resources at our disposal.


I have been hunting for 17+ years.........if it was EASILY seen in the woods I think I would have seen it by now ;) There is no way a 1 1/2 yr old buck is easier to kill then a fawn or even a 1 1/2 yr old doe.


So what??........that is the demise of 90+% of bucks during bow season. You are either gonna kill one looking for food or looking for love. More mature bucks get killed during the rut then any other time so obviously being "blinded" by the rut isn't something they grow out of.

BINGO......you just tipped your hand. You obviously view the hunting world through the rosey glasses of private land, honey hole, sweet spot, low pressure dreamland. Sorry to tell you but that is not how things work on heavily hunted public lands. A large number of deer lose their mother to hunters and are left to get by on their own.........IF they didn't get killed also. Not only that but a mature doe certainly has her little one's survival at the top of her list but if danger pops up she is GONE......if they follow and make it fine......if they don't then that's life. Many deer get seperated from mom when the lead starts flying and they run opposite ways. Maybe they get back together maybe they don't. Ever see a fawn standing around not knowing what to do when it's mom gets dropped by a shot or runs away so fast that the fawn doesn't really know what happened?? Your views may hold true in the woods you hunt but you are being very myopic if you think it is the same for everyone else.


Do you have a link to those stats?

Embarrassed??........you've got to be kidding. The only one embarrassed should be you for typing that.

I killed a nice mature buck last year and hardly saw anything else..........the year before I killed two 1 1/2 yr old bucks and a mature doe. This year I killed two 1 1/2 yr old bucks, a mature doe and 6 month old doe. I will take the 2 years sandwiching the big buck any day of the week given the choice. I killed a nice buck.......it was fun, had some laughs and took some pics......cost me $460 and he is on my wall and that's about it. It was a good time but not really much different then every other deer I kill. I just don't get the facination with antlers. If you love them so much why not just hunt for sheds??


Yea I know what you mean.............no one ever sees macho behavior from the "mature buck only" crowd


Only if they follow YOUR definition of "quality" right??


I am not a kid or a first time hunter and I have killed 4 of them in the last 3 years..........and I don't owe anyone an excuse or explanation for anything I do legally.


Killed a couple of them also........and one of their daughters ;)


Been there........done it. Didn't excite me any where near enough to even think about changing the way I enjoy hunting.


I'll tell you why our herds are out of whack...........because hunters don't kill enough does!!! They are all obsessed with something that has antlers.......no matter how big or small. I have seen grown men reduced to stammering morons because they saw and missed a buck..........why?? The sheer fact that "buck fever" even exists is laughable. A mature doe is the same animal as a mature buck but one is not even looked at by most and the other creates an obsession that people spend their lives chasing..........all because some extra bone on it's head........how dumb is that??

I will be hunting a local farm next year because the owner finally got fed up with the hunters he had let on his land.........you see there are tons of deer and it's a big problem for him so he lets people come to thin the numbers..........but they are big macho buck hunters who only want to put their name in a book so they can show their friends and PROVE what a great hunter they are........so no one is killing the does. The farm is getting hammered with damage and numbers are out of control.

Killing 1 1/2 yr old bucks won't destroy your herd...........letting all the does walk will......and you have all your "trophy" hunting buddies to thank for that.

They have antler restrictions in PA now and from what I hear the hunting was the pits this year..........doesn't really support your theory.


You actually think the non-hunting public gives a damn if you shoot a 4 pointer or a mature 12 pointer??

:eek: