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B

Choose what you want, but dont think of yourself as being superior because you can get deer with a bow. Anything can be a trophy in the eye of the beholder. A smaller 8 pointer that i shot my first year when i was 12 will always be my greatest whitetail trophy, and my dad saw it the same way, so he put it on the wall for me. It wasnt a huge buck, but it was my first deer, and the bigger then anything my dad had ever shot. I bow hunt to extend my season. Rifle season is three short weeks in a place 200 miles from home. I look forward to that hunt all year. Now i got my bow i can look forward to that too. I agree that bow hunting is a lot harder, and when i shoot a doe with my bow i will be more excited then the 6 pointer i shot this year with my rifle. But where i hunt taking a buck is a challenge, with anything. Getting a deer with a gun is awesome, but getting one with a bow is tougher and maybe more exciting. I still dont believe, as far as the deer goes, it matters what you got it with. You got it. Think what you want, but dont go around sayin people who kill deer with a gun are inferior. I bet if you put this topic in the "deerhunting" page, you would get a much differant reply.

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vc1111
...my thoughts exactly;). Oh yeh, my choice would be c.

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Is it really hollier from now attitude or knowing if you had a gun you would have had that buck?:eek:

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Fieldmouse, i don't really get what you mean. Do you mean that they see deer and get upset because a person with a rifle could have taken it? Perhaps... but so what? Why does that put a gun hunter in a bad light? If doing something the hard way is so dang noble (and not just a preference) than how come the people who look down their noses at gun hunters aren't doing everything the hard way? I just don't see how you can take this train of thought to it's logical conclusion and not end up looking down your nose at yourself anytime you do something in an easier way than what is available.

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I am going to do this some day. The only problem is here, a broad head that isn't made from metal is illegal. So I'll have to use a normal head!

I already do a little flint napping, and I plan on making a bow in the near future. It sounds like arrows are the tricky part!

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jerseyhunter
No, actually both times were when I went on trips to places where there were stands set up already and I was going to be the odd man and cause the people on the trip more trouble. (having to carry stands in and out etc)

NJ/PAbwhunter
So if a guy kills a 200 class buck in a 40 acre enclosure and it's legal, then we should all be obligated to admire his "accomplishment"?

MississippiBoy
I have a great deal of reveraence for whitetail deer. So much so that I think it degrades the animal to chase them with a gun. Could you point out where I have lead you to believe otherwise?

Just for clarification, it's not a matter of not respecting or admiring the animal it's a matter of not respecting or admiring the accomplishment or lack there of.

bscofield
I guess we just look at things in different ways. I just think it is too easy to hunt whitetails with a rifle and I wonder why people don't challenge themselves a little more and give the deer a chance.

I didn't say I saw gun hunters in a bad light but rather that I didn't have the same admiration for their accomplishment. There is a tremendous difference between the two. However, there is a stigma that is associated with gun hunting and therefore gun hunters in some areas of the country. Primarily IMO becasue it is so much more "visible". More people are out walking the woods and doing drives and riding the roads, and shooting across roads and more deer are wounded (probably not percentage wise but rahter due to the sheer volume of hunters in the woods). I think all of these things contribute to the phenomenon that you are describing.

It's just a matter of opinion, values, and personal preference. It's nothing personal, just some of our opinions.


Some of you guys say that I shouldn't have the opinion that I will give the accomplishment of killing a 150 class buck with a gun less admiration than I would a 150 class buck that was killed with a bow. However, how many of you that have that opinion think that a 150 class buck shot off of a high fence ranch over a corn pile would be less of an accomplishment than that a buck that was killed say in the "big woods" that was scouted for etc. It's the same thing.

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Damn, I swore I wasn't going to come to work and do this today.

We are all hunters. We all love different things about our weapons, our technology, our experiences, and our sport. I think every post here says they would support everyone else if push came to shove. So that should be and always be the bottom line.

These threads do make you think though! So, if that was the intent, nice job!

That said...I went to the archives and here you go...

This post-

Is in direct contrast to this post-

This post-

Contadicts this one-

and it contradicts this one-

and this one-

And gun hunters don't want to see an elitist attitude from bowhunters.

Again I say, we hang together or we will hang individually.

Greg

PS - I'm going to hide now!

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Since I'm a bow-only deer hunter, gun kills do not turn me on. Even a bow-kill does not impress me if it's a deer ranch and a "hunter" was held by the hand and put on stand X. But I'm not condemning others hunting methods. To each his/her own if it's legal. It's just that I'm not as impressed.

What impresses me is someones ability to scout, read sign, hunt, and put meat (doe, BB, basket rack, or bigboy) on the table with a bow. That's what hunting is all about. Period.

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Wow! Nice thread (and interesting).

You're talking about taking an animal by two different means...so in my opinion, it's basically two different sports. Yes, they're both deer hunting, and both difficult...but obviously one is much harder than the other.

I love bowhunting and definitley put much more time (and $$) into it...but I also love the firearm seasons here in IL as well. My family gets together and has an absolute blast! And we've been doing this for quite a long time.

I basically embrace both seasons and certainly don't condemn anyone for taking an animal with a gun...hell, I do it myself.

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Let me start here and work my way down. I am not judging anyone. I assume that is what your reference was with this post. I have opinions about particulars aspects of hunting as does every other member of this forum. I am merely expressing those opinions.


I use to argue to the contrary but I have now changed my opinion and believe that we should be able to disagree and still cooperate with each other. I pointed out this very thing in the "rooting for the deer post. So, really your just pointing out what I have already pointed out. However, I will quote my statement here for you:

__________________________________________________ ____________________
I guess I missed the point you were trying to make with this one. I am not trying to tell anyone they shouldn't gun hunt or that they are immoral for gun hunting or anything of the nature. I am merely pointing out how I view each accomplishment and how I have differing levels of esteem for the different accomplishments. I am not saying that killing deer with a gun is unethical which I believe is precisely what that statement was in response to.

I admit that as a compound hunter I don't like to see the same attitude, that I have, when it is directed at me by trads however whether I like it or not they have a justified right (I hope ArthurP isn't reading this[:'(][:@];)) based on their value system at feeling the way they do just like I am justified at feeling they way that I do based on my value system though I may have argued to the contrary at some point, just for the sake of arguing;)

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Thanks!

Man, does this thread have me thinking and acting defensive. But I'm thinking.

Anyway, when I rest my head on my hide from one of my trophies, and I stare at those on the wall, I think about my emotions, about my dad, about my son and daughter, or about 1000 other things. The fact that I killed the deer with a gun or bow only comes when I relive the shot...again.

That, to me is what my sport and passion is all about! If you get your kicks from a bowtech and carbons, hey, tell me some stories I'd love to hear them.

Greg

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If someone kills a deer with any legal method and is proud of their kill,, Im happy for them.
Just because I might think that a certain hunting method isnt that "challenging " for me doesnt mean I'll look down upon it .
Do you hunt with a compound bow? You want something more challenging. Try hunting with a long bow and shoot instinctivly. Hunt from a tree stand. Why thats to easy. Hunt from a ground blind or stalk the animal.
Theres just to much arrogance in the world today. Same way with the TROPHY mentality
out there. If someone is happy shooting a spike with a gun. Thats great. Im happy for them. And I'll tell them that.

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I don't put gun hunters in a bad light. I don't care if you choose to hunt with a gun. What I'm saying is if I did hunt with a gun I would have a wall full of 150 class and up. I fortunately get to see several monsters each year. There is a very big difference however getting that deer with in gun range vs bow range. This year I've had 4 with in 100 yards.

I'm probably the most frustrated hunter on this board. I've been trying for 10 years to bag a monster with a bow. I can't seem to be in the right tree at the right time to do it. I do atleast get to see a lot of deer. I've come to the conclusion that if you get enough time in the woods, you still only get 1 chance a year to have that shot opportunity. It's not easy. I hunt with 2 other people and they have yet to bag a monster this year. One of them has 10 on his wall with a few in storage. My other friend took first place in the state the year he killed his with a bow.

Don't worry a gun kill is still a nice deer.;)

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IMO, it's sad that statements like this are spread about. There are just as many "seriuos" gun hunters as there are bow hunters. IMO one should not be judged by their weapon of choice. You must also keep in mind that there are many folks that due to physical limitations, can not pull back a bow for whatever reason, thus they use a firearm. I feel statements like this do as much harm to our sport as do the animal rights folks. YOU my friend are the last person we need included in our hobby.Taz

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To answer your question in your original post. I would say to a degree. I would say a good buck is a good buck no matter what. I'd even admire a good buck mounted after being hit by a car. But there is most definetely a difference on how the buck was taken. Would I admire someone who deliberately hit one with a car, no, of course not. Same is true to a degree with one taken at 200 yards with a rifle or muzzleloader. Where I hunt muzzleloaders are legal, but rifles are not. But I have seen guys mount scopes and shoot accurately with muzzleloaders almost as far as rifles, as well as guys shooting 300 yards with pistols. I have seem guys sit in little island patches in a field and knock them down at incredible ranges. I compare that to me sitting in a tree not being able to see more then 50 yards in any one direction. It sure seems like the muzzleloader/pistol guys have a pretty big advatnage then me, especially when a deer is 10 yards at full alert and I have to make movement to draw my bow. Now next year in NY they plan on having a one week muzzleloader only season right in the middle of bow season (yuck). So I will have to go along with the game and get a license next year. But, I will not put a scope on the muzzle loader and I'll be sitting in my bow stands. I would definetelty say that there is a difference on how a deer is taken. Stick Bow being the most challenging of all.

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are canned hunts considered fair chase?

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I don't view deer any differently no matter what they were taken with. I killed a buck with my bow and a buck with my gun this year and I am proud of them both.

Having said that I will make 2 points that do effect my thoughts on the quality of the hunt..........the animal is a pure trophy no matter what. I rate the hunt......not the animal.

#1 If some guy tells me he was out for 15 minutes and his buddies were driving the woods and a buck came out and he shot it 5 times before killing it I just shake my head. I don't care much for driving deer.........I realize it is VERY effective but it is also dangerous and not very fair chase IMO.

I also have ZERO tolerance for people who can't shoot. First thing I say to someone if I see a poor shot on a deer is "Why did you shoot him there?" If you can't shoot stay home. I have 3 kills with my gun this year. 3 shots.......quick and clean. There is no excuse for not being accurate with a gun.


#2 This may ruffle some feathers but it's my opinion and that's what he asked for. This will also help explain why I don't view gun kills as less of an accomplishment. I hunt in NY where it is shotgun only. I use a smooth bore slug barrell and 90% of my kills are within most people's bow range. My farthest shot in memory was a couple years ago on a buck at 70 yards. All 3 deer I killed with gun this year were at 30 yards. To me that is still an accomplishment to get deer in close and be able to take them with a clean shot. If I had my bow I could have shot every deer I took with my gun.

Where I start to lose my respect for the accomplishment is when I hear stories of 300-400 yard shots. Cmon man.........you could be cooking breakfast, playing a radio, and waxing your truck and a deer at 400 yards will still be there when your done. I have much respect for the skill required to kill a deer at those ranges.............I just view the accomplishment as more in markmanship then hunting.

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SA, I'm not necessarily raggin' on your opinion of gun hunters... But I do feel that the stated opinion does contribute to the elitest attitude. What you didn't answer is that if bow hunting is somehow better or more noble than gun hunting than why don't you do the most difficult form of that?

Bird hunt dog, that's great! But I just hope that you don't somehow think that it makes you superior to other bowhunters for it.

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I would like a honest answer here, you say gun hunting is easy, and killing a 190 class deer with a gun is lets just say in your eyes not a huge acomplishment,

1. How many 190 inch deer have you killed in any manor?
2. What do you do for a living? Why do i ask this, if 190's are not a big deal with a gun then go kill the next world record and become a self made millionaire, or would that not be a acomplishment?

Not making stabs at you but it just seems like if you are not a woopty doo bow hunter you are nothing in your eyes, and to be honest with ya i hunt with bow, rifle, and muzzleloader and killed deer with all three this year and are proud of it.

I bet i have alot more good memories than you do, because i cherish all my gun kill as enjoyment, SAD THAT YOU DONT

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Well if we're speaking honestly here, I guess i would have to say that I do kinda respect a bow kill more than a rifle kill. Here in Maryland we have a huge population of hunters who go out opening morning and sit for 15 min. and shoot big deer. I on the other hand hunt the same woods religiously all season and sometimes have trouble getting the perfect bow shot. I guess the only reason i gun hunt is because its the only time I can get out with my father, and I do have alot of "deer" guns, so its my chance to use them. However if Maryland would for some reason go "bow only" I would jump for joy!!! Look down upon someone for harvesting something legally, no.... respect a bowhunter more....honestly yes. Sorry!

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I can't believe anyone here is so ignorant as to have opinions that bow kills deserve more respect that any other kill. Is bow hunting hared than rifle hunting? Maybe for you it is. For me it isn't. I see more deer when bow hunting. Rifle season lasts for 9 days. 9 days of a blaze orange army surrounding me no matter where I go. I managed to see 1 deer for the entire 9 days but saw hundreds of hunters. Archery season last for over 3 months for me. I almost never see another hunter. For me bow hunting is easier. I have taken 4 deer so far this season with my bow. I only saw 1 deer during rifle season. Easier with a rifle?

I should respect someone's bow kill more than a rifle kill? How many threads have we all read this year that are titled "Made a bad shot on my buck, can't find it" or something similar? They were shooting farther than they should have, or later than they should have, or got too excited, or whatever. So that trophy that is hanging on their wall was recovered 2 weeks later when the crows led them to what was left. That should get mere respect than a rifle kill that was harvested cleanly at 100 yards? I hear too many people talking about rifle hunters as a group.

I could say the same thing about hunting with a bow. There is no excuse for not being accurate with whatever weapon you are using.

This attitude that bow hunting deserves more respect than any other form of hunting is disturbing.

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silentassassin,

I will keep this short and simple, YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

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I think the jump from gun to bow is a tremendous one where I don't see that much of a jump between compound and tradititional equipment. Not to mention all of the extra time in the woods that bowhunting gives as compared to no more difference in time for hunting with traditional equipment. All of the same elements are there but with more inherent accuracy. If I am going to gun hunt it is going to be with the best shooting equipment that I can put in my hands. The same goes for bowhunting. I have had a tremendous amount of big deer withing 40 yards that I was unable to shoot at with a bow. If I had been gun hunting I could have killed 98% of those deer I would imagine. On the contrary, of the deer I have killed with a compouned, 95% of those could have been killed by a competent person with trad equipment. However, I haven't gotten to the point that I am comfortable to limiting myself to the distances at which I am proficient with traditional equipment. But, that's definitely the next level and I am sure that I will end up spending at least part of my season on that side of the fence. Good question though.

I have killed one that grossed in the low 190's but he only netted 176.

I am not proclaiming to be the worlds greatest hunter here. I am sure there are several guys here that are better hunters than I am. However, if someone fancies themselves as a good hunter then why not challenge themselves and pick up a bow. I will tell you that I don't find anything impressive about Milo Hanson considering the fact that he killed a deer that was being driven by other hunters. I don't think that takes any particualr skill set. You put someone else in that spot that was a decent shot and it's called the John Doe buck not the Hanson buck. Where as if it had been taken from a stand by a bowhunter the accomplishment would garner much more respect from me.

That's good and you should be. However, I will continue to give more respect to those trophies that you take with a bow and less to those that you take with a gun. My opinion shouldn't matter in that anyway and I certainly wouldn't offer anything but congratulations on any of the kills. I just wouldn't put as much emphasis on the acomplishment in my own mind if it was not a bow kill.

Mic,

I think that if that is the most intelligent thing you have to say then you have already proven who the idiot is. I do have a question for you though. Is everyone that disagrees with you or doesn't have the exact same value system as you an idiot? Good hunting!;)

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Northern,

The major difference would be the fact that you are able to kill the vast mojority of the deer that you see while gun hunting while you aren't only able to kill a small precentage of the deer you see while bowhunting. But, for some data to back up my opinion why don't you go to your states DNR website and see if they give a break down of kills. In my state although bowseason is 4 1/2 months and gun season is only 2 weeks there are roughly 100,000 deer killed during gun season compared to less than 20,000 killed during the 4 1/2 month bowseason. Also, hunter success rates are close to 20% points higher for gun hunters. In my mind those numbers in themselves speak volumes.

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I didn't mean to imply that poor accuracy was ok with weapons other then gun. I can't tolerate poor shooting of any kind because all you have to do is practice to avoid it. Poor marksmanship is the DIRECT result of laziness.

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SA, the jump from compound to longbow is larger than you think it is, IMO. Your distance changes, everything is intuition shot... incidently I had made mention of making your own long bow, your arrows, your broadheads, etc... What i meant by that is that I don't think your taking your opinion to it's fullest extent in how you hunt. If hunting in a more difficult way is a valid form of measuring "admiration" than you should feel like you were not doing what you could to make it as much of a challange... UNLESS, your hunting method is a matter of preference.

Incidently, I don't know what everyone else feels about this part of it, but I've always said (and still feel this way) that putting yourself on the big deal is a HUGE part of killing it. And that part is, in a large part, dependant on the hunter. People get lucky all the time. It seems like more gun hunters do but that's just because there's so many more of them in woods then bowhunters... IMO.

Micdundee... seriously man... [:'(] Can't you keep things civil?

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Northern,

There is actually a bigger discrepency then I remebered. Here are the numbers from my state in 02. Notice not only the overwhelming difference in the number of kills but also in the percentage of bucks to does killed by archery hunters verses gun hunters.

Archery Kills
Buck Does Total
2,816 4,118 6,934

Crossbow kills
Buck Does Total
1,245 1,570 2,815

Modern Gun Kills
Buck Does Total
53,921 41,266 95,187

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SA, do you have available the # of hunters?

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Well it's some of both. With any thing there is a law of deminishing returns. A point at which it is not profitable to go below. While I do think bowhunting is inherently more challenging that gun hunting I think going below the compound level would be going below that law of deminishing returns, IMO. We could take that argument all the way back to the spear level but again I feel like the compound level makes hunting whitetails inherently more challenging yet still provides you with an extremely accurate and deadly weapon.

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bscofield,

I will look for those numbers in a bit when I get back to the computer.

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right, I know what you mean by that. Who can disagree that you can shoot at a deer at 100 yds. away with a rifle and with a bow you can't... My point is that it's more of a personal preference and not so much an elite bowhunters and lazy rifle hunters type of an attitude.

I still think finding the monsters (since that was what the original post was about) is the hardest thing to do. So if you do than I say take it and be proud, regardless of the mans.

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As the pot stirs...

Isn't that being phony? Why bother saying anything at all if it isn't heartfealt and honest?

How about the doe I shot with my in-line last Friday. Came in with five other deer. Milled around for about fifteen minutes trying to figure out what was up with the orange hat in the brush pile, 12 eyes and noses searching, never figured me out in all that time. I slowly raised my muzzloader when she passed behind a tree, just like my bow, centered the crosshairs on her shoulder and then *bang* down. fifteen steps, never even twitched. The other five milled around for another fifteen minutes before I chased them away.

close range...clean kill...not busted by several adult deer at ranges as close as ten yards...admired her beauty...utilized to the fullest (took all meat, sent hide to tanner for gloves, making soap from all of her fat)

Should I be proud or not? Could have drilled her with my bow but hey my muzzleloader was feelin lonely! Don't tell me you are happy for me, your not really you know. Your just saying that.[:'(]

Greg

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Then why do you hunt with a rifle?

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Me?

I hunt with a rifle because I love it!!

The scope is really cool and increases my range. Yes, I think that is a good thing. It continues my season, which would stop on Saturday until Jan 1. It is a lot of fun. I can hunt more with my dad. I hunt from the ground. (But I do that with the bow too.) I take off work and there are years of traditions. I like the change of venue.

Oh hell I just like it.

With time, I could come up with many more reasons I love to hunt with an inline.

My flint lock shooting friends kills are worth so much more though. Maybe I should go back there again!;)

Greg

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I don't think so. I usually do have some regard for the accomplishment just not nearly as much as I do with a bow kill. However, the fact that they have done something that they themselves are happy about is in and of itself worthy of congratulations. If you are happy then I am happy for you that doesn't mean I have to hold the accomplishment in great regard. That's like when my wife killed her first deer. It was a yearling do that she killed with a gun. I was very genuinely happy for her but that doesn't mean that I held the deed in great regard. However, I was very happy that she was happy about the kill.

For the most part I don't. I have gun hunted 2 times in five years and both of those times I just carried a shotgun. I almost went ona rifle hunt a couple of weeks back but I backed out and took my bow instead.

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bscofield,

That data isn't on the report that I pulled that info from but I will look through some others and see if I can come up with it.

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i cant believe this, after 8 pages of stupidity WE ARE ALL HUNTERS and noones method is better than the next , i dont care if someone shoots a 150 class buck with a bow or a rifle that person accomplished something, and anyone that thinks that killing a deer with bow only is better than a gun hunter needs to climb of that high horse and get a dose of reality.

i am a avid bow hunter but because my wife hunts and as much as she would love to hunt with a bow she cant due to carpel tunnel in both wrists she gun hunts only so by the reasoning here she should stay out of the woods i think not , i enjoy hers and my time in the woods together as well i have 3 friends who never have had any interest in a bow , i wouldnt give up the 2 weeks of gun season with them as well as the 10 days of m/l season. ADAMS not putting you down bud but just using you as an example i wish my dad where still around to go with me during gun season, last year my wifes grandfather 83 at the time wanted to go
hunting 1 more time i was honored he asked me NOT his 2 sons or his 3 grandsons it will be a day i will never forget he enjoyed himself and even though he didnt shoot a deer he had a blast , and now we are on the verge of looseing him as his health has gotten very bad ,
if i ever get a chance at a true trophy buck yeah sure i would hope it would be with bow in hand but if it is during the gun season fine he will still be dead and his head will still be on my wall. but to say that bow hunters are better thats just crap, well nuff said /deadshot aka larry

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wow, this topic really did heat it up. IMO Bowhunting is number one enjoyable hunting method for me,there is nothing like have a nice buck or even a doe within 20yrds of me,gives me a rush.But I still enjoy getting out rifle hunting because I go with my father and other family members.but when we rifle hunt we don't drive around we sit in the morning/afternoon/evening and because rifle season is prime rut time we call deer in and usually it is 20below zero celcius and you have to get to bulked up with clothes to even draw a bow back. Also we respet other hunters if we see hunters we avoid disturbing there hunt. On the other side of it I hate the ignorant a$$h0l3s that even if they see you they still disrupt your hunt and I hate the guys that do nothing but drive around chasing deer and jumping out of thier trucks to take a shot that to me is not hunting at all. Also I have no problem with rifle hunters who set up a guy on point and push some bush. anytime I can get out in the bush and hunt doesn't matter if I have a bow,muzzleloader or on occasion if I don't tag out in bow season the odd rifle hunt. Good luck to all hunters and be safe.

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So to summarize I think everyone who chimed in believes that

1. a bow kill is more difficult to pull off than a gun kill because of the close proximity necessary to effectively kill it

2. In rank order it would go something like this rifle, shot gun muzzleloader, compound bow, traditional bow, spear, rocks, driving deer off cliffs.(sorry that would be a deer drive wouldn't it)

3. the vast majority, gun hunters, kill the vast majority of the harvested deer in most states annually. Percentages are still outstanding.

4. people on this forum are passionate about their sport and the way they go about it

5. people who don't become proficient with their weapon bring all of us down with their disregard for the sport

What we all should come to realize someday is that every kill deserves respect and admiration for what it meant to the shooter PERIOD. That is what SA sort of said in his last post. And I agree.

I'm not rolling my eyes when I turn to walk away either!

Finally, I think this horse is sufficiently beaten.

Greg

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No, that doesn't make you an A**hole Fieldmouse... it's commendable, but I was referring to those that do nothing with the meat... it's rare, but it happens.